sfcityduck

Re-read the early pages of this massive debate and you'll discover that the "dc.wikia.com" is not owned, controlled or run by DC. It's a wiki. Like wikipedia. Editable by anyone. DC's official position is most recently found in the Teen Titans archives and Teen Titans anniversary edition, both of which identify BB 54 as the origin and first appearance of the TT.

Glad to help! The Atlas is actually a pretty cool cover. My question, is that woman so happy because the invisible guy is only wearing socks and a tie?

Turned on the Sig viewer. I love this collection. Don't see some examples that you should have. Specifically, there are DC file copies (also a "Bob Kane/DC file copy") on eBay right now, including this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scribbly-4-CGC-Fine-6-0-Blue-CR-to-OW-PGS-DC-File-Copy-Sheldon-Mayer-/202053285101?hash=item2f0b5074ed:g:vMcAAOSwbYZXVi-L I see you have Eastern file copy, but what about Western? http://www.ebay.com/itm/March-of-Comics-82-Tarzan-1952-CGC-8-0-File-Copy-/202044471172?hash=item2f0ac9f784:g:uhEAAOSwTZ1Xmhs9 Here's a Harvey subsidiary (or licensee) you don't have, but its Austrailian: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sad-Sack-1-CGC-6-0-Australian-Edition-File-Copy-1956-/232473005783?hash=item3620788ed7:g:n0oAAOSw5ZBWJoGQ This 10/54 Atlas file copy would appear to fit your want list: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uncanny-Tales-25-CGC-4-5-FILE-COPY-VG-off-white-to-white-pages-/302370946288?hash=item4666b67cf0:g:cXkAAOSwDrNZWY6i I have also seen "Fun Parade" file copies if your into humor digests,

No sig line.

Not true for the time period of TTA 27. Many guys with powers in those old books who didn't become superheros.

How so? This I got to hear. How can you reconcile TTA 27 as the origin and first appearance of the Antman when he is neither called "Ant-Man" (instead he's the "Man in the Ant Hill") nor appears in costume or begins life as a superhero in that comic? TTA 27 is exactly like BB 54. First appearance and origin of a hero who is only named in his second appearance. What is the difference?

Here's a thought experiment: What price for each of these - * coverless Action 1 in VG * cover of Action 1 in VG * married cover with coverless Action 1 in VG

You have a good sense of humor. Poor lighting of the Twilight.

You've got to get yourself a "Jap" cover Okajima to go with the Mohawk cover Mohawk.

A Mohawk Tomahawk? Now that is a cool choice!

The second highest graded BB 60 (9.4 I think) did sell yesterday, in the exact same auction, for a lot less. But, still a good price. TT collectors should be happy.

No the right analogy is TTA 27. Your analogy fails, except to show how ridiculous your reasoning is. Shouting "SQUIRRELS!" won't work here. The first time any member of the Teen Titans appears in BB 60 is on the top of the fifth page of the story. Here's what happens: Batman: "What's this? Calling the Teen Titans: Robin: Check, Batman! Teen Titans is a group of junior crime-fighters I set up after Kid Flash, Aqualad and I helped the teenagers of Hatton Corners! Of course, Hatton Corners was the story told in BB 54. Thus, Robin (1) ties the creation of the Teen Titans directly to the adventure of Hatton Corners, (2) confirming that adventure as the origin of the Teen Titans, and (3) establishes that the Teen Titans exist prior to the story told in BB 60. Any doubt that BB 54 is the origin of the Teen Titans is removed because that panel is footnoted with the editorial comment "See Brave and the Bold 54." Thus, the story you claim is the first Teen Titans appearance refers you back to BB 54 for the origin of the pre-existing team. The CONTINUITY was clear from day one. Again, you are elevating the trademark over the story continuity. That's your choice. I and many others choose differently. When Robin says the team was formed "after Kid Flash, Aqualad and I helped the teenagers of Hatton Corners" he's just referring to the old staid sequence of events of all group origin stories: The members meet, have an adventure, THEN decide to form a team. Just as with Avengers 1 and GS X-Men 94/X-Men 94. Pretending you don't understand the argument for BB 54 as the origin of the Teen Titans seems more than a wee bit disingenuous. The more honest approach is just to admit that you agree the story of the Teen Titans begins in BB 54, but you view the emergence of the "Teen Titans" name and trademark as more significant.

You guys want to see a really rare modern comic? Below is a really really rare modern comic that I just submitted to CGC. It may be the only one. It's also historically interesting as it led the NCAA to change their recruiting rules. You can read about it in these Sports Illustrated articles: https://www.si.com/college-football/photos/2008/06/23oregons-jonathan-stewart-comic-book https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2014/05/19/11-college-football-recruiting-tactics-stories-methods https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/06/23/recruiting-main

The marketplace seems to agree that 181 is the more significant book and "true" first appearance, whatever that means. But, when Marvel reprinted the first appearance of Wolverine, they started with 180. So you are just proving that publishers can be wrong. No argument from me on that score. I think Marvel got it right when they gave it more thought. I just think DC has gotten the first appearance of the TT right more often than it has gotten it wrong, including in the recent 50th Anniversary book. To me, the analogy here is to TTA 27. You disagree. Hence we get the fun of debate.

It's a key book from 1964.

In your dreams!

No. IMHO, 60 is the first time that the team that first appeared in 54 is called the Teen Titans.

You and I disagree on who is being dishonest here. I take comfort in my honesty from the fact that DC itself adopts my view.

BB 54 ends with our heroes having had a successful adventure together (and DC touting a "new team" for whatever that may be worth). BB 60 begins with Robin saying the TT were formed as a result of the adventure in BB 60. As a matter of continuity, which is all that really should matter here, the origin of the Teen Titans is BB 54. All that happens, as a matter of continuity, in BB 60, is that the new team adopts a name and has a second adventure together. The right analogy here is TTA 27. We can all agree that when Stan wrote TTA 27 he wasn't thinking he was writing the origin of a superhero. But, when he wrote TTA 35, he CONTINUED the story and made TTA 27 the origin of Antman. That's what continuity is all about. Continuing stories. And BB 60 is nothing more or less than a continuation of the story of the Teen Titans started in BB 54. Just as with TTA 27, our heroes don't yet have a name, but they get that (as with Antman and Animal Man and others) in the next story. The formula of the continuous story told in BB 54 and BB 60 is not only identical to that told in Avengers 1 (heroes meet, fight villian, decide good time was had by all, form a team and adopt a name), but also in GS X-Men 1 and X-Men 94. It wasn't until X-Men 94 for the "New X-Men" team was actually formed when they have the obligatory "let's form a team" moment and a number of mutants reject the call to join the new team.

Yep. The cases are laid out in detail. We just disagree on what matters most: the trademark or the continuity of the story of the team.

I can't believe this debate has been revived. I'm with Chillax and Roy. Let's be clear, you can look at this from three different perspectives: (1) Trademark; (2) Continuity; and (3) Practical reality. In terms of trademark, BB 60 was the first appearance of the name "Teen Titans." It can truly be said that the trademark "Teen Titans" didn't exist until BB 60. If you collect trademarks and logos, BB 60 is a big deal. But, this begs the question: Is what matters the trademark or the continuity? I, and most TT collectors, care more about the continuity, the characters and story, than the trademark. In terms of continuity, BB 54 was clearly the origin and first appearance of the Teen Titans. As a matter of continuity, the gathering of the group that appeared in BB 60 would not have occurred but for the events of BB 54. BB 60 makes that clear. In BB 60, Robin says that the Teen Titans were formed as a result of the events in BB 54. In other words, BB 54 is exactly like Avengers 1 in continuity significance: The heroes come together and have an adventure, and at the conclusion they decide to form a team. That Wonder Girl is not in the first Teen Titans adventure is about as meaningful as the fact that Speedy and Beast Boy aren't in BB 60 either. Like the Avengers, the line-up changes. The formation of the group precedes the adoption of an official name. It happens. In terms of practical reality, it is pretty dang obvious what happened. DC gave Haney the assignment of trying out a kid group. Marvel was having success with the concept. BB 54 was the result. Turned out that reactions were good, so DC decided to have another tryout, this time with a name for the group. Hence, the emergence of the trademark "Teen Titans." After BB 60 and the Showcase issue, the group had established itself enough to become its own title. It was all the same concept. For me, and most collectors, continuity and practical reality outweigh the emergence of a trademark. You simply cannot be a Teen Titans completest without getting BB 54. It's referenced in BB 60. It's the start of the continuity of the TT story. It's part of the necessary canon. And DC has reaffirmed that over and over. This latest auction just proves that the market also values BB 54 more than BB 60, for whatever that's worth (which may be nothing).

Met him at SDCC with my son. Very nice guy. And probably did more for comics in the heyday of my initial collecting than anyone - Created Swamp Thing and Wolverine, wrote the beginnng of the New X-Men and co-created Nightcrawler, Storm and Colossus, and he edited NTT and Watchmen and many many more great series. Sad sad day.

How far away is that day? Because I could really use your old DC comic rack metal signs!

I could have sold for more to others, but I don't think anyone wanted it more or deserved it more. SOTIcollector has done more to identify books mentioned in SOTI than anyone.