sfcityduck

Well ... you are forgetting that there are copies which have been entombed by companies other than CGC. The PGX 9.0 (SP), the CBCS 9.0 (R), and others come immediately to mind. You are also ignoring that there are many collectors who buy these books to hold for the rest of their lives. Dave Anderson's Action 1 (Mile High 9.2-9.4) was bought back in the early 80s as was the PGX 9.0 (SP). Guys who bought Action 1s back in the days when they were a four to low five figure pick-up may feel no downside to holding on to the books because they don't need to recoup the costs. There is no reason to entomb a book you don't want to sell, so these copies site in safety deposit boxes, safes, and fortresses. This contrasts with guys like Darren, who bought the Action 1 (CGC 9.0 blinding white) from a long time holder and flipped it in relatively short order after submitting it for a press. But, even that book, had been in the hands of collectors for decades before it was entombed.

EARLY Frazetta?

I think you're right, thanks.

Appreciate the replies, but I'm not looking for black caricatures or sidekicks. Serious question: Someone on this site, could have been Jon Berk, once said that an early GA superhero was originally drawn as black, but later changed to white. My recollection is the character was relatively obscure (at least to me), not DC or Timely. I swear the character name has some relationship to the color black (not necessarily "Black ________", but more like a word often associated with the color black or darkness) so the story made sense. Anyone recall who the character was or even remember this being stated here?

Black GA Superhero? I have a vague recollection of someone on this board claiming the first black superhero was an early GA character that started black but became white in later appearances. Ring any bells?

Why do you say the story is "shaky"? Multiple folks witnessed the "discovery" of the pedigree at a Con, right? And the books undoubtably exist and were sold before pedigrees even became a thing, right? This isn't like fake Mile High books.

I'm finding it a little funny that this thread is based on the assumption that if a book doesn't have a lot of copies on the Census it is "rare," yet most of the books posted on the thread are raw.

If the list that was being made was of the most important dealers, it would be hard for me to put anyone other than Chuck in the No. 1 spot. And mainly for the reason you identify, because I was buying from him when just a wee tyke and my Local Comic Store didn't have the books I needed. It was only after discovering Mile High that I discovered CBG. Obviously, that whole Edgar Church thing and basically inventing pedigree pricing doesn't hurt his legacy either. But, obviously, lots of other guys would make that list as well. Frankly, it seems to me that the lists that there are a bunch of worthwhile lists, including: * The folks who created comic fandom; * The folks who were the key educators of comic fandom; * The folks who created and grew the comic market; and * The pros who spurred and aided the growth of comic fandom.

"comic book history" seems like a different topic than comic book collecting. Frankly, I don't see Jack Kirby as any more important to the development of comic collecting than many other artists and less than some.

The superhero revival began well before FF 1 with an EXPANSION of the DC line of superheroes. At DC, unlike Marvel, superheroes never died and without DC's expansion and the subsequent creation of the Justice League, Goodman would never have tasked Lee with reviving the superheroes for Marvel. But, no doubt that Marvel's stories are the main force behind superhero movies. Comic fandom, though, I think originally was created more in response to DC and EC, then Marvel. Marvel followed the trend and capitalized well on it.

I've scanned the pages, but I'm not sure I saw anyone mention: Lupoff for giving comic collecting a big early boost from the more established platform of science fiction fandom with Xero and All in Color for a Dime. Jules Feiffer for the 1965 book "The Great Comic Book Heroes" which was many people's first exposure to Golden Age superheroes. For me, because the topic is comic book COLLECTING, I have to start my list with the guys who really got collecting going back even into the 1950s, and another name I haven't seen was pretty instrumental to that is Gardner Fox. Probably my list begins with folks like Jerry Bails, Roy Thomas, Don and Maggie Thompson, Lupoff, Biljo White, etc., because i think chronologically, but I can't possibly narrow my list down to just 5 most significant overall, because while the guys who started fandom are important, there's no doubt that folks who came later like Bob Overstreet played a huge role and there are plenty of people who were instrumental as early dealers, starters of comic cons, prominent early collectors, fanzine editors, etc. who all played a "top five" role depending upon what aspect of the journey of fandom is that you think most significant. Great topic to get people talking and thinking about the past. Lousy topic to actually try to get a literal top 5 list.

Finally able to post again! Great thread! Agree with all said above. This thread is a nice respite from the Trump scandals. Bet Marc Zaid is making a mint representing intelligence agency whistleblowers! Smart dealers might want to send him some tempting opportunities.

The coloring on that cover is amazing. The color gradations on the helmets, the almost abstract/modern colors to signify the dirt flying ... it's really ahead of its time. I can't think of any other covers from this time period that look like this. The Everett covers are cool, but very of their time (even a bit crude). This cover is something else.

This is my favorite Centaur. Who is the cover artist? One of the greatest non-superhero comic covers of all time IMHO.

You are linking to a 2009 exhibit. Court copy sold in 2010 as a CGC MP.

Problem with this analysis is that your source information, CGC counts of non-restored Action 1s, is not a representative sample. So any extrapolation is inherently flawed. My belief is that the old time collectors who bought and have held Action 1s for a significant period of time - my guess is over three decades for many copies - are likely to own copies which exceed, as a group, the median grade you see on CGC. Why? Because those guys are also the most likely group to have "upgraded" their comics over the years and to, perhaps, have been more selective in their buying and holding. [Off-setting this might the prevalence of restoration back in the 80s.] Just a thought.

I think your comment illustrates the fault line between a "collector" and an "investor." Most of the old time "collectors" I have met are, when it comes to comics, hoarders. They aren't investors. They could cash out for big bucks, but most would rather take it to their graves. They can't even understand why anyone would want to sell the items that they put so much effort into finding and which cause them so much pleasure. Which is probably why some of the more prominent collections recently sold at Heritage have been estate sales (Roberts' original art sale, Weist, etc.). I also think that's why you see some books coming on the market repeatedly. They haven't found a home with a true collector yet. They are just flitting from investor to investor.

Can you explain these acronyms for non-Americans ? LoC is Library of Congress, got that one. Thanks. Michigan State University has an extensive comic connection. The Library of Congress has a copy. University of California at Riverside has a large comic collection but not an Action 1. The Ohio State University is famous for its comic art collection, and hascomics as well. Many other Universities without any specific emphasis on comic books have them. The University of Oregon, for example holds Gardner Fox's papers, including 600 comics. It would not shock me if some of the highly endowed University libraries with rare book collections have some valuable comics. I would also not be shocked if museums like the Smithsonian or Lucas' new LA museum have an Action 1.

Heck, thinking about it, I'd be interested to know what institutional collections have an Action 1. MSU, I'm sure of. LoC, I think. UC Riverside, I don't think so. tOSU, no idea. Could be anywhere, though.

P.S. An article on the Ethan Roberts' original art collection being auctioned contained this nugget on the record setting Action 1: "Emphasis on 'was,' " Mannarino said. "I had the copy and then sold it for $14,000 back in 1986 for a down payment on a house. The guy I sold it to resold it for several hundred thousand dollars, and the man who he sold it to cashed in for $3.2 million."

My guess is that there are a lot of Action 1s that have been sitting in collections for decades. A lot of old school collectors store their books raw and keep their holdings secret. Just think of the surprise when Bangzoom revealed his collection (and he's never revealed an Action 1 although he once appeared to imply he has it), the shock at the record setting Action 1, the"surprise" when Grimes Action 1 was first publicized on these boards (and it was subject to national press coverage when he bought it back in 1980). It's a big country, some knowledge is regional or local, memories fade (or those with the knowledge die), and some of these books are overseas. Plus there are copies in institutional holdings as well. I think it would be very very hard to make a list of all of the owners of Action 1, especially when many dealers would likely prefer to keep that list entirely to themselves.

A-Man was interesting, but these are the covers I'm popping popcorn for. One question about the A-Man run though: I've read somewhere that some people view the numbering of A-Man as being a continuation of MPFW. Has that been debunked?

It's a fascinating discussion, but I don't know if it's ultimately resolvable. It depends on whether you are willing to accept a cover that most readers would think was meant to depict a bombing run by German planes (MM 2) but has plane markings that are not actually German, or are only willing to accept a cover with planes that have unmistakably German markings (Top-Notch 2). I'm inclined to accept Top-Notch 2 as the first Nazi cover. I must admit that Cat is making a convincing argument and I think it is a closer call after this discussion. I'm teetering on switching to Cat's side. The only thing keeping me from doing so, is the symbols on the planes wings. I think it was probably publisher cowardice, or a later editorial change to the text story, but I think an intentional decision was made to ensure that the planes weren't marked as German.

That's a WWI cover as evidenced by the "1917" on the cover. Good catch! Thanks for the correction.

All-American 5 has a cover featuring Brits fighting Germans. If it really has an anti-fascist German interior story, then under Cat's reasoning it might well be a contender for first anti-German war cover.