Wayne-Tec

In December 2017, this Cap #1 CGC 1.5 sold for over $70,051.

LINK

Is $100,000 for this CGC 2.5 wildly optimistic?

Last Cap #1 to sell publicly was a CGC 0.5 missing 4 center wraps. That copy sold for $39,500.

The 2.5 is now up to 66K, closing in about 5 hours.

11 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

All This^

Batman was the #1 title for a few years in the late 60s due to the TV show, the people who watched that as a kid have certainly reached their earnings peak, and while it dipped in the 70s, it has been DC's #1 character since shortly after Dark Knight Returns (and certainly by the time of the '89 movie) with the brief exception of the Death of Superman storyline.

That's basically 35 years now as the top character for Batman, but Action #1 is still king. It's most likely not going to change.

I really enjoyed the 1960s television show. It was a big hit at first but overall, lasted just over 2 years and was cancelled due to a significant drop in ratings.

The Superman live action series lasted nearly 6 years and Superman had 4 feature films before “Batman” came to theaters in 1989.

Batman films have since gone on to make $1,000,000+ globally by the late 2000s.

Fans born in the 1980s-present are the ones who have been impacted by the significant gap in character popularity and as of today, those people only represent (guesstimating) 10% of Action #1/Tec #27 owners.

90% of owners grew up during times when Superman, like Batman has become since the late 1980s, was the much more popular character. And we’ve seen how much people are willing to spend on characters that are connected to their childhoods.

There are a lot of age 20-40 Amazing Fantasy #15 owners and that book has blown the doors off of Fantastic Four #1 despite many years of collectors saying that would never happen.

The age 20-40 generation grew up loving Spider-Man. Ironically, Spider-Man ascended long before Batman. So collectors age 20-60 can all relate to Spider-Man in that way.

How will age 20-40 collectors invest in Action #1/Tec #27 when they shift out of the 10% and become the 90%? That’s anyone’s guess.

But for Action #1 to remain the No. 1 book 10-20 years down the road, collectors will have to spend more on a character that many didn’t even like that much vs. the character they loved with a passion. I don’t think that’s a given.

37 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Batman’s rise to top billing really started in the late 80s with the movie and such. The generation of kids then is the buying pool now. 
batman has been more popular for 30+ years and the tide is still action 1 is king. I don’t see that changing now or in 30 years as all the things that make action 1 in higher demand will still exist. 
but Time will, of course, tell

You would be a lot more qualified than me to comment on this Rick, but in your experience, what % of Action #1/Tec #27 owners would you put into the following age groups?

Ages 20-40

Ages 40-60

Ages 60 and above

8 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Yes. Because the entire market for those books is just a handful of folks. Doesn’t really matter what the next generation thinks about the character as only a fraction of them will be able to buy one. And action 1 at these prices likely will continue to rule the roost. Doesn’t mean tec 27 can’t close the gap, but there won’t be a repeat of 1989-1990 due to the price levels the books are at

 

batman is already almost infinitely more popular and cooler , and yet action 1 is king in the comic book value realm 

The small customer pool is a really good point.

I suspect as of now, the majority (although not all) of Action #1/Tec #27 owners are in their 40s and above.

That means it will be another 10 years or so before the generation that preferred Batman > Superman will rise to the point of having more representation in that pool.

It will probably be another 10-30 years before the majority of collectors in that pool shift from the Superman > Batman generation into the Batman > Superman generation.

Everyone has their own preferences of course. I was born in the late 1980s and I’m in the minority within my own age group for preferring Superman > Batman. It’s close and my feelings in that regard shift from time to time. But for the majority of my generation, Batman would win in a landslide.

On 5/8/2020 at 4:24 PM, Wayne-Tec said:

Predictions for the Universal 2.5 coming to CL auction?

LINK

Up to 60K now with just over 1 day left to go.

9 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

They are not similar today. Action 1 is a good 20% ahead of tec 27 Unrestored grade for unrestored grade. Maybe even more than 20%

“Similar” wasn’t the best choice of wording on my part, but 20-30%+ for Action #1 was about what I expected.

If the best existing Action #1 proves to be nicer than the best existing Tec #27, it will be interesting. I initially used the 9.2 Tec #27 as a hypothetical because it’s currently the highest slabbed copy. How would it match up to the best slabbed Action #1?

But the root of my curiosity is the future of both books. How will the nostalgic connection and character preference of the next generation impact the FMV hierarchy? If Tec #27 is within 20-30% right now, will the next generation who had a strong preference for Batman continue to pay 20-30% more for a character they like less?

53 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Your scenario is similar to Sensation 1/All-Star 8 - and folks have voted All-Star 8 as the winner. I personally would rather have a Sensation 1, but I get the reasoning. I also would rather have an Adventure 40, though the World's Fair is loaded with cool stuff.

 

But All-Star #8 has the 1st Wonder Woman story, specifically, her origin, which remains strong today.

I'm not focusing just on cover appearances.

If Sensation #1 had the same cover but with the content/origin story of All-Star #8...and All-Star #8 had the same non-WW cover, with an interior that matched Sensation #1, but hit newsstands first...it would be interesting.

So long as the Church Action #1 remains raw, we can only speculate.

9.2-9.4 may be a very real possibility, but it wouldn't take much to knock it down to 9.0-9.2 if the book is being handled raw. This happens to books all the time, ones that aren't as old as Action #1. We also don't know how well the 9.2 Tec #27 presents. It would be interesting to see the two books side by side to see which looks better.

But my question has just as much to do with the future of both two books as it does specific high grade copies. I've long suspected that a shift in FMV may happen when the generation that grew up loving Batman (and feeling less enthusiastic about Superman) grows old enough to dominate the high-end GA market. That's not going to happen for another 15-30 years or so.

But seeing a new world record set with the sale of a Tec #27 might give that shift an early push. With the two books holding somewhat similar value today, some may be hesitant to pay more for book 1-A than book 1-B. If a precedent is set in the high grade, it may trickle down to the lower grades.

On 5/8/2020 at 4:24 PM, Wayne-Tec said:

Predictions for the Universal 2.5 coming to CL auction?

LINK

52K now with just over 3 days left.

8 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

I’m thinking first to newsstands trumps first time story is conceived / written 

What if the Superman story for Action Comics #2 came out in Detective Comics #15, a month before Action Comics #1?

Obviously, that would be the first newsstand appearance.

But because the story in Action #1 was created first, plus the classic cover, which book would you rather have?

Hypothetically, if the CGC 9.2 copy became available for sale/auction, or another high grade Tec #27, and it set a new world record for the sale of a single comic book...

Would Tec #27s in all/most grades then jump ahead of Action #1 to become the No. 1 FMV book in the hobby?

10 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Coming up in HA

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-//p/7231-119105.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

how is this only a 3.5??!!

On 5/22/2020 at 1:26 PM, Chicago Boy said:

Adventure 40 or New York Words Fair ??

My understanding is, NYWF 1939 hit newsstands first, but the story in Adventure #40 is the first written Sandman story.

Similar to Superman #4 vs. Action #23.

1 minute ago, Chicago Boy said:

I believe it is. 

If that's the case, it's interesting that there were a number of anti-Nazi covers prior to, without Hitler.

I'm sure it's been asked before, but is Cap #1 the first Hitler cover?

On 5/19/2020 at 12:18 AM, Wayne-Tec said:

Up to 37K so far. 

44K now with 6+ days to go.

6 minutes ago, woowoo said:

   I think when the Bat 1 goes for under 90k you really flip.

I would be surprised if the Batman #1 sells for less than $100,000.

14 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I stand by my $90 k

With a 0.5 that looked rough, missing 4 interior wraps selling for just under 40K, I think 90K would be reasonable for this copy.

7 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

It’s not his first leap. That’s page 3, I think. But your comment made me realize Superman has resorted to running across the telephone wires because he doesn’t fly yet!

Which other pages do you have?

Group shot?

On 5/8/2020 at 4:24 PM, Wayne-Tec said:

Predictions for the Universal 2.5 coming to CL auction?

LINK

Up to 37K so far. 

18 hours ago, Comics181 said:

She may not be the prettiest or really anything special compared to any of the above books, but she's mine. Hope this counts. I think a good pick up to ease back in after a couple years of non-collecting.

It definitely counts. Great page with a lot of action. Congrats and welcome to the club!

1 hour ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Well the court copy of Action 10 went for $77k. I stayed on the sidelines and nabbed an Action 1 page instead. This way I won’t wake up in the middle of the night smacking myself on the forehead 

Big congrats. Incredible page!

10 minutes ago, Primetime said:

Marvel 1 has the most fascinating comic book history as far as distribution and publishing goes thanks to Goodman and Jacquet. That's cool to me. Most people don't care about those sort of details. While Subby and Torch are characters that made it into the silver age and beyond, I consider FF1 to be the birth of the Marvel Universe as we know it today. 

It’s definitely not perfectly analogous, but pretty similar as far as comic book comparisons go IMO.

You’re not alone in finding the publishing/distribution interesting, I’m with you there.

What I like about the Marvel #1/FF #1 vs. Cap #1/AF #15 comparison is that compelling arguments could be made for either group, just for very different reasons.

10 minutes ago, Primetime said:

Marvel 1 more important, Cap 1 more popular. 

It depends on how you define importance. No doubt Cap #1 would have never existed without Marvel #1.

Marvel #1 is also the birth of the Marvel Universe. It makes for a compelling argument.

Very similar to comparing FF #1 to AF #15. From a comic book history standpoint, Marvel #1 and FF #1 are in a category of their own. But you could definitely argue Cap #1 and AF #15 are greater overall books.

No right or wrong answer here.