Bomber-Bob

I think you went above and beyond in your description and narrative. A lot better than most.

Good luck with the sale ! I think someone will be very happy to get this book and, as you said, enjoy it in an old school mylar. For full disclosure, I just put in a bid myself !

From the full front cover pic, I see multiple deep, color breaking, spine creases. Pressing can flatten them out but the creases would still be there. From the BC, upper right corner, pic I can see the dark areas that are residue from the soling mentioned in the notes. You may be able to squeeze an 8.5 out of this but, mostly because of the soling, you are stuck in this range. IMO, not worth the expense to 'maybe' get an 8.5 . Sorry.

But what is the true grade ? It's really difficult to assign a grade to this book. Did you read my Showcase 22, with a stain, example where Matt Nelson gave it a 6.5 but CGC gave it a 4.5 ? Is one right and the other wrong ? I also disagree that the OP is 'fully' aware of the grade. You stated, 3.5, the Lion stated 4.0, I admit that I don't know. The OP has a vague range but to specifically say he knows it to be VG is not true. What about my comment that many buyers would love to purchase a low grade key in a raw format ? Also, though you did not call it a 'scam', you said 'that borders more on deception by omission rather than responsible inclusion'. Still a very strong accusation. I don't know what else to say but I just don't agree with you. I think the OP will be selling this in a responsible, full disclosure, manner.

And the Lion has spoken, thanks for commenting. With regards to the stain, I honestly would not know how to grade this as I have never dealt with a stain this large. I once had a Showcase 22 that was appraised by Matt as a 6.5 . I had it graded onsite, by the Haspel Hammer himself, only to get a 4.5 . The reason, a faint water stain. It was similar to this example in that it was on the front and back covers with nothing on the pages (how does that happen?), but not nearly as extensive. So Matt thought 6.5, Mark thought 4.5, who is right ? In the 129 case, I don't think the specific grade matters as much as the disclosure. The grade is an opinion, the stain is a fact. No scam with offering it raw with disclosure.

James, I like to think my moral compass is wound pretty tight. Comes with a Catholic upbringing which perpetually leaves you with 'Catholic guilt'. So I appreciate your desire to have an open and honest transaction. However, just having the book graded doesn't always mean you are getting what you paid for or that the grade is accurate or the book was not manipulated to 'trick' CGC into a grade. Also, many like their books to be raw. The chance to own a lower grade key in a raw state is desirable to many. I just don't share your feeling that selling this book raw is, in any way, a scam.

James, while I am disappointed in your near meltdown here, you usually have informative posts, so I hope you are okay. Regarding your accusations that anyone here is suggesting deceiving the buyer is completed manufactured on your part. You seem to imply that if the book is not CGC graded you are deceiving the buyer. That's crazy. Also, contrary to your accusations, nobody ever suggested not mentioning the stain. Of course you mention the stain. The OP said he was going to use 12 detailed pics. This book is difficult to grade anyway. In this case, not stating a grade is being completely honest and above board.

Okay, I googled this, specifically for comic books. I saw this immediately. Seems to pertain to our discussion. 1. Don't say what the grade is. It's not worth it. Even if you're correct, they can say they disagree. Maybe they don't like that it has a bent corner even if that does make it NM still. So they need an apprasal? Okay, bend the comic in half and take it in. Appraised at 5.0, they get refund. Nothing you can do to prevent this .... nothing. I did read a hypothetical comment that 'even with pictures from all angles, a buyer can inflict damage to a book beyond the pictures and claim not as described'. I suppose that can happen even in a slab. The comments relating to get it appraised and returning for not as described seemed to all relate to an opinion of grade in the listing. As scary as E-Bay sounds I'm not sure the big auction houses would be immune to scammers either. As long as a Credit Card is used, they can dispute.

Okay, I did the "buyers always right on ebay" Google search and it only got one hit ? Even that was about a local pickup bought by someone far away.

I don't sell on E-Bay, in fact I hardly ever sell at all, so I am not aware of the current E-Bay environment. However, I find it hard to believe a buyer could dispute the scenario you described above. Perhaps someone else that regularly sells on E-Bay can comment on your scenario. On a personal note, it seems like you are trying too hard to 'win' the OP over to your suggestion. I find this puzzling. At this point we should just wish the OP good luck and step aside. No right or wrong, no winner or loser, no biggie.

For this very reason, I specifically stated do not place a grade on the book in the listing...... Put up good pics and give the 'usual' spiel about not being a professional grader, look at the pics for details. Mention there is cover stains, not on the interior, and the book has not been pressed or cleaned. let the bidder decide the grade.

Normally, I would agree but I don't think he will be happy with the grade. I think it will do better raw with pics, let the bidder decide the grade.

I would keep it simple and list in auction and don't reference a specific grade. Put up good pics and give the 'usual' spiel about not being a professional grader, look at the pics for details. Mention there is cover stains, not on the interior, and the book has not been pressed or cleaned. I bet it will do well.

I have a question I have often wondered about. First pic below is a normal spine, showing none of the printing on the vertex. The second is an example of the whole vertex visible on the Front cover. The second example doesn't seem to be common . CGC doesn't seem to care as you will see 9.8's given. Is this just a normal printing bindery problem? If so, how did it happen and is the BC now on the vertex ? I realize the cover is glued to the stapled set of pages so I would think it could have shifted, post production, but I really don't know.

Regarding getting it graded, it's a tough call. There is no doubt you can sell it just the way it is. If put in auction, you can advertise it as not pressed/cleaned and possibly get an 'opportunity' premium . Some people like projects. If you get it cleaned, pressed, and graded, it will sell for exactly the FMV of the grade on the label, maybe less because of the eye appeal. You are also gambling on how CGC will grade it. I have a feeling CGC will not be kind to this stain. If it were my book, I would sell it raw in auction. Minimally, this is the quickest route .

The seller gave a really long narrative about the skewing of the census from all the resubs going on. He states that the census for 9.4 and above is actually a lot lower because of these resubs. However, I don't see in all this narrative where he says anything about this copy having upgrade potential.

It was mentioned that getting it washed may remove the stains but it would be considered restoration. Getting this cleaned and pressed is not restoration but it won't remove the stains nor improve the grade. Restoration really hurts the desirability of the book. The stain also hurts the desirability of the book. IMO, in summary, there's not much you can do here. It's a stinker but it's still a key book so it has value.

I like that idea ! I think Revat or somebody once responded to a newbie with a 'call CGC' response. The newbie said he did call CGC and they told him to post the question here ?!? So, if we don't respond, they will have to call CGC. I just get annoyed when they don't even look at the website. Help with grading is a legit question but 'how do I submit' is not. I'm all for helping Newbies but we shouldn't have to do all the work for them.

I get the Big! Big! guide. Besides the larger print, the content is all guide, no ads or editorials. Yes, unfortunately, for this day and age of instant gratification, the Overstreet is outdated before it's even printed. The only thing I know of that is even more stale is the CGC Registry points ! Still, you gotta love the Guide.

I remember getting the same Universal Label, 8.0 with CT on an early 10 cent SA book with a submission. I always assumed it was a mistake ?

We seem to be getting this same 'newbie needs help with his newly found comic collection' almost on a daily basis. Rather than respond to these requests individually, there has to be a way of having a standard, cut and paste, response . Iron Man #1 for 20K ???? Dream on. How do I get a book graded ? Read the CGC website, everything is there.

Just had my first transaction with Wes. I bought 3 raw Romance books. First off, the books were exceptional and graded accurately. Wes is a tight grader. Great communication and quick shipping. As mentioned throughout this thread, the packaging was bullet proof also. An A++++ transaction all around.

Dude, you are so wrong. I am a collector, and I know other collectors, that simply want high grade copies of nostalgic books with no consideration for investment. A 5.0 just doesn't stimulate the nostalgia. BTW, for investing, I will buy stocks.

It's good to hear there is discussion in the grading room. Do you think there is less discussion currently because of the volume and TAT's ? It used to be advertised as inspected by 3 graders but now I think it's only two. I loved the earlier days when they would tell you what each of the 3 graders gave the book. That's how I learned the final grade is not determined by the average of the 3 graders. It's all up to the final grader. I once had a 9.8 changed by the final grader to 9.0 ! They said he found something on the side of the book that the other graders missed.

I'm not going to settle for something that I don't really want just to use a coupon. E-Bay pricing is a joke. I've used a coupon for supplies but have yet to use it on a book.