CKB

Here is my pin collection... I think there may be one or two missing, but that's pretty much all of them as far as I know. If anyone wants to know anything about them, fire away.

To echo Hector I saw 1 dealer with Valiant wall books -- a Harbinger #1 w/o coupons and creased/tore and a Harbinger #2 as well. I found a box of Valiants at another dealer with everything "key" missing except for BS #7 (which is a stretch). I wondered if there was a Valiant shortage at this show because: 1. No one brings them anymore 2. No one heard of the news 3. They were brought but picked by the time I got there (as in the case of the 1 long box) For the past 15 years (before the Valiant investment and movie announcements), I was always told by dealers who had Valiant "back home" that Valiant doesn't pay for the space it takes up at a convention. Limited tables, limited boxes, and Valiant is 95% dollar books... bought by people who like Valiant. If you're going to fill your tables with dollar books... you're better off with the big two (or three) publishers. Valiant keys have been picked out of probably 95% of Valiant boxes. The remaining 5% probably don't realize they have anything good in there... or they still have 1993 prices on them. This is one of the reasons I always did so well at shows with the Valiants I brought - and I always came loaded. No one else took them seriously. And this was all pre-VEI during down times. I sold off my comic show inventory (not my Valiants! Kept those!) about a year ago and am no longer doing shows, but if there ever comes a day where I can set up at a show and bring only Valiant books, like I did in 1993, I will be the first one in line to set up.

Here's what I think it is... (I found a 2007 discussion were we tried to figure it out) Harbinger TPB 1st print - black bird, bagged with #0 blue Harbinger TPB 1st print - blue bird variant, bagged with #0 blue Harbinger TPB 2nd print - never bagged The Blue Bird was an incentive for ordering a certain amount. It's why I still have regular trades that I ordered from diamond in 199whatever.

I have been under the impression that the 2nd printing of the Harbinger Trade Paperback was not bagged, and therefore did not have a Harbinger #0 Blue (or any other book) included. However, I realize the only way to know if a Harbinger Trade Paperback is 2nd print is by looking inside... which can't be done while it's in the bag. We'd need to see someone open a bag, find a 2nd print trade inside with a Harbinger #0 Blue... and then study the Harbinger #0 Blue to see if there is any difference at all with the first (and possibly the only) Harbinger #0 Blue. While we're at it... we'd probably want to confirm that nothing is different about the Harbinger #0 Blue which came with the Harbinger trade paperback with the blue bird logo on the cover. I was just about to post that I can definitely confirm that I personally ordered second prints from the diamond star system and got them bagged with a blue zero. But, you have me doubting myself now. I have a second print in my collection, and if it came bagged with a zero I will find them all together (but the bag opened and with the book in mylar). I will double check in my collection the next chance I get.

It's difficult to get past that for all of us who lived through the Valiant years. Who the heck wants that ? But I suppose anything is possible if enough people trashed their drek copies so that now there could actually be a shortage in HG on certain drek issues, especially after the 90s crash and the print runs came down to next to nothing by the end of the runs. I've no idea what new characters may have been introduced in those later issues that may find life again now. Still, I'll take "classic" pre-Unity Valiant, thank you very much. There is no shortage of post unity commons. Can't think that way. It just isn't true. The print run does not have to correlated with the price. I may have 300 copies of Harbinger 10, but if my price is $10, take it or leave it, it doesn't matter. Many dealers will raise prices based on demand regardless of their supply.

Did you buy that from me? I sold one for $80 about a year ago, I think?

Make what stuff up? You asked if the Shadowman #0 came in regular, chromium, and gold, and the answer is yes. You then asked if this happened with any of the other books, and the answer is no. Were you expecting a dissertation...? There's nothing more to say. The Shadowman #0 gold is the ugliest gold there is. It's actually Shadowman #0 dingy yellow. Not attractive at all. Can someone tell me the logic behind Shadowman 0? That was the question Rock. That question can't be answered in 1 word replies. Its all good man. Yes that gold cover is ugly as hell. There was no logic behind it. Someone decided it was something they wanted to do. Like many things at Valiant, it was a one-off, not repeated (like Solar #10, Solar #10 second print, the Eternal Warrior #1 double golds, etc.) Though there were reasons for some of these, much of what happened at Valiant was experimental, and didn't follow a set pattern. There are no "non-enhanced" version of any of the other chromium books (X-O #0, Ninjak #1, Psi-Lords #1, Geomancer #1, etc.) It wasn't a "newsstand" version, because, at the time, Valiants weren't being sold on newsstands yet. They had a chromium, a "regular", non-enhanced version, and the gold. I agree, I put "newsstand" in quotes because there really was no Valiant newsstand, with bar codes, at that time. GotG 25 turns out not to be the example I was looking for because the cover prices on the different editions were all the same (which is not the way I remember it, but I checked!). RMA gave a few more apt examples of the cover price games that went on with direct vs. newsstand issues. I can't see any other reason for Valiant to do this but to see what happened when they played those games. That doesn't mean there wasn't another reason. :-) If someone could dig up the Previews solicitation for Shadowman 0 it may have a clue or two.

Yes. The "direct edition" Shadowman 0 had a chromium cover with a high ($3.50 IIRC) cover price. There was also a "newsstand" version with a paper cover and a lower cover price. This wasn't uncommon in that time period, Guardians of the Galaxy 25 had the same sort of thing. The paper cover is harder to find, but I would not call either of them difficult. There is also a Shadowman 0 gold, chromium cover, no cover price. This is one of the tougher chromium gold books for whatever reason. No gold variant for the paper cover. Lastly there is a Shadowman 0 VVSS. This is a signed book with COA in a Valiant mylar that was released directly by Valiant. They used the regular chromium cover version, and it has the embossed Valiant seal on the first page instead of the (usual) front cover. I believe that all of the chromium covers - XO 0, Shadowman 0, Psi-lords 1, etc... - were also given out as promotional items. These are the cover only, flat and unfolded and unstapled. These are, as far as I have seen, the regular chromium cover, not the gold version. I think I am remembering that correctly. I don't have scans of the ones in my collection to check.

I just got the collection yesterdayI dont even have them sorted in run/by title yet. If you want to come by thats cool. My shop is open every day 12-6 and Sundays 12-3. It appears to be a 50 mile trek so think about it and let me know. Don't be surprised if CKB is at your shop at 11:55am this morning. I'm eager but not that eager! (Well, maybe I am but real life intervenes.) My new company is headquartered in Cambridge and I figure I will be forced to come down there again sooner or later. When that happens I'll give you advance notice.

With the way some of the series (Harbinger) introduced new characters almost every issue (post unity), it is hard to answer this question because we cannot predict, only speculate. Getting old and new Valiant 1st appearances is all we can do for now. If i were to guess, Bloodshot is the focus because he looks to be the first up for Valiant, and the face being we were told that his movie "would surprise you to know how far along the movie is" according to VEI CEO. But there will be so many first appearances that may warrant a future key, that I would hoard them. Collect the missing major 1st appearances, and hope when the movie/tv show news breaks, you have a copy or 2. Hoard them all away and wait for movie news? Sounds good to me. If you need someone to come take a look at them, let me know. Be glad to do it.

I have personally submitted something approaching a hundred copies of H1. I have never received a 9.8. I believe the 9.8 I have in my Master Set was purchased already graded.

To be clear, I've personally never specified a timeline, and I've used IM 55 as my baseline (i.e., 9.8s doubled in the three years since we first saw Thanos on screen). However, I would wager good money that the 9.8 census doubles to 270-300 in the next 4 years (i.e., July 1, 2019) -- sooner if we actually get a cast confirmed by year's end or a teaser trailer by Dec. 2016. (And I recall the Bret Ratner movie hype, etc.) I simply disagree with the argument that a confirmed movie announcement wouldn't result in a "flood" of new 9.8s or the implication that the vast majority of eventual CGC 9.8s have already been slabbed. That's ridiculous. The steady growth in 9.8s despite the book having lost 80% of its value since 2008 demonstrates this isn't a GI Joe 21 situation, let alone a Wolverine 35 one. I see a doubling within 4 years as supporting my argument! That is not a flood, it's a trickle amidst all the news and speculation. I'm not taking the bet but I don't think we get there.

That timing coincides with the start of the new Valiant. This is going to drive submissions, no doubt about it. You focus on the "tripling" but I look at raw numbers and they tell a different story. You can say the number of copies tripled if it went from 1 to 3. I certainly hear you. Just like I heard the people who said the same thing in 2003, 2005, 2007, etc. We still only have 140ish 9.8s on the census for a book with a ~40K print run that has never sold for much less than $300 and as much as $2k+. If you really think there are going to be 250 this time next year, I do not see the evidence for it, at all.

Bob did a great job on that! I was sure it was BWS until I saw the signature! I wish the inside was as good!

We don't usually look for spine splits on modern books, but the cover stock on H1 was bad enough that they are common. Top, bottom, center, at each staple, you name it I've seen it. Pressing can "cause" this defect as well. Meaning it can split an otherwise intact spine because the paper is so bad. Page/coupon browning is other one. Again, bad paper, it can get toasty. Staple placement... and bad staples. There are 2 and 3 staple versions of the book. Many have the staples shifted to the front and are not closed properly, so the staple seems longer than it should. It can detract from appearance.

I find it impossible to believe that the often forecasted and never-occurring H1 census explosion is finally here. I think you will find me predicting ~10 years ago on the Valiant boards that it would take years and years to see 9.8 census numbers on the order of 100. This was based on having hundreds of copies pass though my hands since 1992 and my early experiences with CGC grading. I predict a steady growth of census numbers despite the price increase. It will take years to get to 200. I also believe a not insignificant factor in the growth we have already seen is evolving/devolving standards at CGC. They have gone through lenient periods. Once thing that may drive a bit more 9.8 growth is the increased slabbing of sub 9.8 copies. This has been a easy way for those playing the CPR game to manufacture 9.8s. Many common defects with H1 are not press-able, but on the other hand these common defects don't usually make it to 9.6 either.

Did you let one go for $175, RMA? You were being kind, I'm not sure I would let someone look at mine for $175! Well, maybe for a few seconds. There are so many stupid, ridiculous people in this stupid, ridiculous hobby. +1 That quote has lost its context, and it looks like my statement is now directly referring to CKB's comment, which isn't the case at all. If you're going to quote, please preserve context, or delete it entirely. You've made it look like I said something I didn't say. It's ok, I saw the original. I sort of like the edited version.... Even with a few 9.8 candidates in the hole I would have had trouble letting one go. If I had like 10 in reserve I could see selling one. It's just one of those books that I lucked into like 50 of, all perfectly taken care of, and was unable to get a 9.8 out if it. There aren't many 9.8s out there..

Did you let one go for $175, RMA? You were being kind, I'm not sure I would let someone look at mine for $175! Well, maybe for a few seconds.

Magnus 5 had issues with the cover stock being all messed up. The "waviness", ripples over the entire cover. Maddening defect, needs to be in hand to see/feel it. It wasn't the whole run, though. Just every one I seem to find. Of course.

Yes.

I think it was more that there were dealers ordering thousands knowing they could only sell hundreds. This drove the print runs. Bloodshot was easy to get at under cover price if you knew the people with cases and cases. I was doing the NYC show that month and one of the local dealers saw I had BS1 for cover price, so he asked me if I could sell him a quantity. I asked if he needed a hundred or a thousand. He didn't buy any.... ! :-)

This was an amazing month. Supes 75 drove BS1 sell out allover the place despite the huge run. This was still the time where local price spikes were the norm based on local demand. The guy the next town over might have a spare case or two but it didn't matter. Pre-internet.

Rule of 25. TM Donut.

I don't doubt your experiences, but I have the opposite view. I have always, always, straight back to 1993, seen fewer Rai 3s than 4s. And still do today.

That letter from Wizard is probably more valuable to a Valiant collector than the books (even if they were gold). There were very few official Valiant letters (or Valiant-sponsored letters like Wizard prizes) that survived, so collectors generally pay a premium when they can get something that ties directly to the early Valiant offices. Few that survived? I would think everyone who ever won would have kept their letters as a special prize. Then again, they might have been kids like me back then..... Right, but did they print 100,000 letters? Because they printed 100,000 copies of books (on average). If there are even 200 letters, that's 1:500 ratio. Stuff like this?