CKB

I agree. It was my least favorite Frank but somebody must like it. Maybe it will make a better TV show. Wow, to each their own and all but I just freaking love that series. It probably shocks you it's so beloved by some as it shocks me that you hate it! :-)

But... Seems likely to me.

By the way, I just got a Brother MFC-J6720DW: http://www.brother-usa.com/MFC/ModelDetail/4/MFCJ6720DW/Overview#.UvUf0JKA1hE While this is a great printer with the largest scan bed I have ever seen, it does not scan slabs properly. It does fine for stuff right on the glass, though. To tell you the truth I cannot believe I picked the thing up for $170. It feels like a $400 printer. I didn't buy it to scan slabs but I couldn't help myself and try one out. Very blurry, no hope of it working right for slabs.

I have the Perfection 1600 and it does a great job. No problem with gaps between the items and the scanner glass. The problem with Epson is no driver support for 64-bit OS's. I had to buy Vuescan to continue using it.

Are you kidding? Rocket Raccoon is the new Spiderman. Duh.

It will be interesting. Even at 5% of the print run, you are looking at 2400+ 9.8 copies. The question is how many will ever be submitted. There are very few Copper/Modern collectors that buy slabs from me at shows. The vast majority prefer being able to hold the book in their hands, even if you gouge them on the raw copies. FWIW, CGC is way easier now on books across the board. That is another big part of why I see Harby #1 9.8 numbers creeping up. The amount of printing defects that they allow in 9.8s is scary. Is a cut-out coupon one of those defects? Many, many, MANY Harbinger 1s have the coupon cut out. No 9.8 for those. -slym This is why I ignore the non-blue numbers on the census. The greens are qualified and the yellows have been "defaced", so blue is my friend. But certainly the number of high grade books were reduced by the coupon program. (PS to you SS junkies: Don't go after me on the SS comment - I just mean they are changed from their original state, you may see it as better or worse, but you can't say it isn't changed! )

They may have tightened up now, but for the purposes of the discussion any period where they were lenient "corrupts" the data we are trying to glean from the census. Namely "how hard is it really to get a H1 9.8?" Once graded, books stay on the census, deserving or not. Right?

My opinion is that the last ~10 years cast doubt on this scenario. When you have high dollar sales for a "common" book they get graded in droves. See Batman Adventures 12. There was quite a lot of publicity when there were ~$1000 prices for CGC 9.8 copies of H1. If they were going to come out to play, why not then? The mythical sealed case has never surfaced - this is not Wolverine 1. Despite this, there has never been an explosion in the census. I can only guess how big the explosion in submissions was based on what has been graded so far since pre-screening completely throws off what we are trying to measure, But as it stands the current 9.8 count is 119 out 663 universal blue labels. As has been discussed many times, the problem with H1 is that there were production problems that keep most copies out of 9.8 and most of those problems are not pressable. It would not surprise me if a small percentage of the run had a shot at 9.8 as they came off the press in 1992. And it's all downhill from there after 22 years of time. I agree that the spine splits and other production issues make Harby #1 more difficult in 9.8, but these books were so valuable shortly after release that they would have been bagged and boarded right away so the chances of them being stored improperly is lower. When I was cleaning out the stock that LCSs had in their bins in the late 90s the Harbinger, Solar and Magnus pre-unity and incentive issues were always bagged and boarded. Interestingly, I found a lot of unbagged X-Os and Shadowman #1s, which surprised me as X-O outlasted most of the rest. Looking at the census numbers right now, out of the 717 copies of Harby #1 slabbed to date, 131 have come back at 9.8 (blue, green and yellow labels), which means a little over 18% of the slabbed copies have hit that grade. That number does not seem to indicate it is as tough to land in 9.8 (basically a 1 in 6 chance) as I thought it would be - I expected it to be in the 6-8% range due to the long known production issues. If that number holds for the entire print run, then you are looking at 8000+ potential 9.8 candidates. Even if that rate is halved to 9% of the print run, that is still over 4000 copies in total as potential 9.8 books. Unfortunately, the ratio is killed by pre-screening. I have personally submitted over 100 copies of H1, all pre-screens. Only a small number of those appear on the census. The census is also thrown off by nothing ever coming off the census. How many 9.8s also appear on the Census as 9.6s or lower grades? Must be a few that were CPRd successfully or just resubbed. Many of us (Valiant CGC nuts) feel that CGC is much more lenient with H1s than they were 5 years ago. Like you, I estimate (based on handling hundreds and hundreds of copies over the years) only about 10% of the original run was 9.8 worthy. If you erode that number through the coupon program, time, handling, and general mayhem, I usually use 1000 as a theoretical top end number of what might be left. But in reality that seems high to me. We'll see how the trickle of census number grows.

It actually has never bottomed out at that range. The only sales under $300 occurred during the infancy of CGC, and long before the demand for Harbinger shot the price up to $2500. The past year or so the book has oscillated around $300-350, ending closer to $350. From what I understand, the books he lists are based on the # of bids, not the price. FWIW, the suckers were the ones that bought Harbinger #1 at the highs. There were plenty of HG copies to go around and it was only a matter of time for more to surface. Just like any BA/CA/Modern #1 or key, there will be more highest graded copies on the census over time and that will bring prices back to reality. Actually that particular post had to do with the number of watchers, not the price. I think you are a little strong with your characterization of the supply of high grade Harbinger 1s. Given a book that sold from $2500 down to $350, there are still only about 100 9.8s on the census which has grown very very slowly for a 90's "big money" book. Compare to Batman Adventures 12. Certainly there was little support for a 2500 price given even a slowly growing census count, but it still is a legitimately tough book to grade out at 9.8. It is tougher than other books from that period, but at an estimated 48,000 print run there are plenty of potential 9.8s out there in long boxes and store stock that have not come out to play yet. The question is how many people are willing to pay the $250-$350 for it if the current series fails and there are no movie/tv prospects to inflate prices? When I look at the number of so-so Image books being optioned, I keep wondering if Valiant will ever get something on the big or small screen. Harbinger 1 doesn't have a TON of downside in CGC 9.8 in that price range. It's a relatively tough 9.8, has a very low print run for its era, is a classic book that a lot of people have some nostalgia for, and the characters are back in print for now. Even if the current series died, it's already renewed some interest in the book. Certainly. You don't need to be a Valiant collector to want a H1 9.8 in your collection. It is a legit modern era key book. I would put it in the top 10, and I can't see it out of the top 20 in any serious list.

It actually has never bottomed out at that range. The only sales under $300 occurred during the infancy of CGC, and long before the demand for Harbinger shot the price up to $2500. The past year or so the book has oscillated around $300-350, ending closer to $350. From what I understand, the books he lists are based on the # of bids, not the price. FWIW, the suckers were the ones that bought Harbinger #1 at the highs. There were plenty of HG copies to go around and it was only a matter of time for more to surface. Just like any BA/CA/Modern #1 or key, there will be more highest graded copies on the census over time and that will bring prices back to reality. Actually that particular post had to do with the number of watchers, not the price. I think you are a little strong with your characterization of the supply of high grade Harbinger 1s. Given a book that sold from $2500 down to $350, there are still only about 100 9.8s on the census which has grown very very slowly for a 90's "big money" book. Compare to Batman Adventures 12. Certainly there was little support for a 2500 price given even a slowly growing census count, but it still is a legitimately tough book to grade out at 9.8. It is tougher than other books from that period, but at an estimated 48,000 print run there are plenty of potential 9.8s out there in long boxes and store stock that have not come out to play yet. My opinion is that the last ~10 years cast doubt on this scenario. When you have high dollar sales for a "common" book they get graded in droves. See Batman Adventures 12. There was quite a lot of publicity when there were ~$1000 prices for CGC 9.8 copies of H1. If they were going to come out to play, why not then? The mythical sealed case has never surfaced - this is not Wolverine 1. Despite this, there has never been an explosion in the census. I can only guess how big the explosion in submissions was based on what has been graded so far since pre-screening completely throws off what we are trying to measure, But as it stands the current 9.8 count is 119 out 663 universal blue labels. As has been discussed many times, the problem with H1 is that there were production problems that keep most copies out of 9.8 and most of those problems are not pressable. It would not surprise me if a small percentage of the run had a shot at 9.8 as they came off the press in 1992. And it's all downhill from there after 22 years of time.

It actually has never bottomed out at that range. The only sales under $300 occurred during the infancy of CGC, and long before the demand for Harbinger shot the price up to $2500. The past year or so the book has oscillated around $300-350, ending closer to $350. From what I understand, the books he lists are based on the # of bids, not the price. FWIW, the suckers were the ones that bought Harbinger #1 at the highs. There were plenty of HG copies to go around and it was only a matter of time for more to surface. Just like any BA/CA/Modern #1 or key, there will be more highest graded copies on the census over time and that will bring prices back to reality. Actually that particular post had to do with the number of watchers, not the price. I think you are a little strong with your characterization of the supply of high grade Harbinger 1s. Given a book that sold from $2500 down to $350, there are still only about 100 9.8s on the census which has grown very very slowly for a 90's "big money" book. Compare to Batman Adventures 12. Certainly there was little support for a 2500 price given even a slowly growing census count, but it still is a legitimately tough book to grade out at 9.8. 100 copies is a lot for a book that arguably doesn't have 100 collectors, let alone 100 collectors seeking out a CGC 9.8 copy of issue 1. wut?

It actually has never bottomed out at that range. The only sales under $300 occurred during the infancy of CGC, and long before the demand for Harbinger shot the price up to $2500. The past year or so the book has oscillated around $300-350, ending closer to $350. From what I understand, the books he lists are based on the # of bids, not the price. FWIW, the suckers were the ones that bought Harbinger #1 at the highs. There were plenty of HG copies to go around and it was only a matter of time for more to surface. Just like any BA/CA/Modern #1 or key, there will be more highest graded copies on the census over time and that will bring prices back to reality. Actually that particular post had to do with the number of watchers, not the price. I think you are a little strong with your characterization of the supply of high grade Harbinger 1s. Given a book that sold from $2500 down to $350, there are still only about 100 9.8s on the census which has grown very very slowly for a 90's "big money" book. Compare to Batman Adventures 12. Certainly there was little support for a 2500 price given even a slowly growing census count, but it still is a legitimately tough book to grade out at 9.8.

I saw a promo for the new "Resurrection" TV show... Is it a blatant rip-off of this comic? Sure seemed like it from the spots they are throwing out there!

I've seen a lot of these Wizards 1/2's starting to get respectable money. They have them for a lot of titles though and the lesser known titles you can still find in the $1 or less box. I remember this particular Gold edition being very tough to find. Not sure about the others, I always liked the Wizard ACE editions and never see them at comic shops either. The print run for X-O 1/2 Gold is around 2k, similar to The Maxx. The difference being one was coveted and protected, the other seems to have been trashed. And if it wasn't for seller 'canvascutie' these books would still be selling in the triple digits. That's all true, but this one is going high (IMHO) because it looks like it could actually be NM. Seller has provided pictures good enough to see that the spine is probably not split and the book does not have a twist to it from being mistapled... all common defects. But yes, that one seller must have had a couple hundred copies and persistently lowered the price - it's actually a wonder that it never fell much below $20. The story on the valiant board, if I remember correctly, was the seller had all the leftover 1/2 issues from the Wizard warehouse.

I would grade it a straight Fair 1.0. If it is a solid 6.0 otherwise You could convince me at Fair/Good. According to the specific wording in the Overstreet Grading Guide (don't have it in front of me) it may not be out of bounds. But in reality you have to throw out the "less than x% of cover missing" language with a defacement like that. I think if you rigidly applied the OGG standard 2.0 may be technically OK. Again, though, please check, I am going from memory.

Or a prescreen. I don't use prescreen and I would hardly call it luck, you just have to take the time to look at each book you are submitting. They reject books all the time on my prescreens where I have no idea why and accept books that I put through as borderline while being sure they will be rejected. When I break 80% on 9.8 pre-screens of moderns I am doing the happy dance. So I would definitely come down heavy on the "luck" side of things. Skill has not helped me too much on CGC submissions of ~2000 books over the last decade. When every sub 9.8 is a dud the pre-screen is not optional.

I found one several years ago and you thought Id won the lottery when I sold it. Had all types of PMs about it. Ive only see a couple of copies of 4 very hard to find. It's really just the #4. I would pay the $75 for a #4 9.8 candidate alone.

I don't see any justification for this. CGCs primary grader is on record stating the issue will not harm the book and while they would also prefer it wasn't there, continue to churn out slabs with the issue. Until CGC calls it a defect and wants the slabs back, I don't see how sellers can be expected to. Of course, any buyer can be choosy and ask about this issue before buying a slab and should not purchase it unless it can be verified the issue isn't present. It is not at all clear that this defect won't harm the books. I just can't see how this problem isn't a defect because it would be a rare buyer who wouldn't want a slab without it. As to what sellers can be expected to do, I would say they can be expected to insist that CGC replace slabs with this defect. At the very least, sellers should be disclosing the defect in their listings. If they don't, they should expect to receive returns from dissatisfied buyers. I just don't see it. Take buyers/sellers out of it. Say you submit a book yourself for your own collection and it comes back with this issue. You call CGC, they say it's normal, and they will not reholder it for free. Or, maybe they will reholder it for free just to get you off the phone, but they cannot guarantee the reholdered book will not have the same issue. What do you do??

I don't see any justification for this. CGCs primary grader is on record stating the issue will not harm the book and while they would also prefer it wasn't there, continue to churn out slabs with the issue. Until CGC calls it a defect and wants the slabs back, I don't see how sellers can be expected to. Of course, any buyer can be choosy and ask about this issue before buying a slab and should not purchase it unless it can be verified the issue isn't present.

I'm rubbing my belly. -slym Those wheels are always in motion.

Time to submit my Harbinger??!!?? Not at all. VH1 books are at the bottom cycle in their valuations, pretty much all across-the-board. There was an overwhelming sentiment the relaunch would increase demand and value for the originals, the opposite happened. Hmmmm. So say that mine is a 9.8 (no clue if it is), raw it's what, like $50-$80? Wouldn't it be worth it for the $200 price jump, or more?? Or are you saying "that's it", as in, that $200-$400 price is going to go down significantly? Well there's been a lot of discussion that with the 'softening' in grading of Harbinger 1 over the years, a 9.8 is a bit more common. Not to sound like a , but under these old standards with CGC it is very unlikely your book would grade 9.8. Check the census, that's why the first few copies sold for over 2k. Then it churned down in and around $1,000, eventually sliding to $500, before now settling where it is now, around $400 mark. It has never hit $200 (aside from maybe one fluke sale). I would agree that at $400 or so, it's not that bad of a purchase (I personally don't collect slabs), it more than likely won't go much lower, the floor is in - but the upside is very limited as well. Super unlikely it will get back to $1k. But I digress; I've already beaten this subject to death on the VF boards. If there's a thread on moderns that are cooling off (good time to buy), throw a dart at most VH1 books, and even some of the HTF Acclaims. No, my question came down to if it was a good idea to get my raw copy graded if it has 9.8 potential. At these prices, I wouldn't bother, unless you want it for your collection. My point earlier was that before CGC loosened their grading standards, Harbinger 1 was a book almost impossible to get in 9.8, mostly due to common defects on each copy. Even very adept graders subbed many books they thought were 9.8, only to come back 9.4-9.6. If you want the answer of a broader audience, go to the VF forums...there's a specific thread following just sales of Harby 1 9.8 (up to about 50 pages in length). Okay, so then, if I understand correctly: -Raw's go for ~$50 -CGC 9.8 goes for ~$250 -Grading standards are looser now (i.e. better chance of getting a 9.8). -Grading costs+shipping ~$40 -Prices are reasonably stable, and aren't going to go a lot lower Isn't it a no brainer to get it graded??? How about you visit that thread that I suggested, and retype these comments there. Do you have the link for that? Couldn't find the page. I'll answer you here.... If you have a 9.8 candidate of Harbinger 1 it is a no brainer to slab it. You are doing the world a favor by protecting a rare thing. But, there's a catch.. It's a no brainer if you pre-screen. On a straight sub H1 is always, always dangerous. Even for someone like me who has had hundreds of copies pass through my hands. There's a reason it was once selling for much more and we still only have 100-ish on the census. Pricewise, right now a 9.6 is borderline and a 9.4 is break-even. On the other hand, any serious increase in interest in pre-unity Valiant will send things crazy. It's a big IF but not out of the question. I would not sell my H1 9.8 right now, I only see upside.

Yeah - the profit is everywhere there Lawrence - 5 boxes of unboarded books thrown in a heap. I'm rushing to your website to buy all those NM copies right this minute...... Apparently when Andy buys cases from Diamond they come pre screened & shipped in mylars... Ah, if only. I can dream...

O RLY? What competition would that be, pray tell?

Harbinger #1 was never in the $1 bin. Harbinger #15 - #30 have been dollar bin books... but not the early ones*. *There is a coupon that should be inside #1 through #6. If it's cut out, the books lose MOST of the value. When sellers don't mention the coupon, buyers don't know what to bid... it's a gamble. Valiant 1993-1994 common issues have been in the $1 bin, but Harbinger #1 (January 1992) never fell below about $10... even when Valiant was dead for 10 years. With Valiant's return to publishing, some of the key early books are getting a little more attention. The last few sales of Harbinger #1 on Ebay have been $50... with a few at $70. My guess is that people think they're getting 9.6 and 9.8 when they buy these raw. It's more likely they're getting 9.0. What's funny is that this auction SAYS the book is raw 9.0. It should be around $15, if that's the case. $30 is double the standard market price for VF/NM. I believe I sold my last VF/NM H1 with coupon for $45....yes, here it is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=321066298021 Of course, my VF/NMs are better than everyone else's. Seriously. I have another one listed and I often get questions like "I can't see anything wrong with it, why is is a 9.0"? My reply is "minor subtle surface wear invisible in the scan." The real answer to that question is that it's 9.0 because it's really a bit better, but I don't want there to be any reasonable question about grading. I will get the $45 eventually. Again.

The mario and zelda books sell well on eBay in sets in any sort of readable shape. I would be a buyer of all of them at $0.50 as long as I could make sets. Sets don't have to be complete, just groups of different issues. If you get any 9.8 candidates be sure to send me a PM. Or if you decide to pass or are willing to send the couple hundred books to me, also let me know. How were they stored?