500Club

The 70s and 80s was totally different. GSX1 introduced new characters from a more diverse background, Black Panther was black from day 1. Any of the stories where Lois Lane became black was for one story in one book. I don't really see a comparison. I think the trend today is to try and bring in a new much younger customer base and this is the idea they came up with. Seems like it has alienated some of the existing customer base. Did it bring in more than it pushed ? Sales number should say whether it was a net positive. For the publishers, it is critical that they find some mechanism to bring in a new young crowd or they are dead. All of us old customers aren't going to sustain the media for the next 20 to 50 years, they have to get new young people in that they can lock in for the next several decades. Your response wanders another step away from the original point made, which was modern comics being hindered by the attempts to replace core characters. The 70s and 80s were totally different; new characters were created. That’s all I was addressing. I agree with you; Marvel’s move was an attempt to bring in new readers. I’d opine that they should’ve consulted with Coke about the ‘new Coke’ fiasco, and how that worked out, before changing their core ingredients. What they need to do, from a business perspective, is keep their core characters consistent, and add new characters around the edges.

Yes. I don't have a problem with diversity. I think everyone needs a hero with whom they can relate.  But re-writing characters who were established in the 60s is not the proper route to take.  On top of that, there’s plenty of examples of great, and original, minority characters. The success of the Claremont/Wein new X-Men characters showed that, even back in the late 70’s, diversified well written characters would be readily accepted.

They did? I thought after Kirby left, Marvel just continued to regurgitate his ideas. That's what I saw. Some created variations of old ones. For every Ultron he created (which isn't all that original) Roy Thomas throughout the Silver Age took old Golden Age heroes and reintroduced/reimagined them into his stories as well as taking characters like Frankenstein and vampires and reimagining them - while bringing back the occasional return villain. For every Wolverine that was created at Marvel during the Bronze and Copper Age, there are plenty of She Hulks, and Monica Rambaux as Captain Marvel, and War Machine's to go around. My response was in regard to the idea of diversification, and Artboy99’s having noted Marvel’s SJW trend toward replacing core characters with minorities. You’d noted similar attempts in the 70’s and 80’s, with GSX 1, Black Panther et al. I’d responded that at that point, diversification had been accomplished with new characters.

 That's true, but what do you expect? Creators have seen older creators get nothing for creating multi-million dollar characters that led to multi-billion dollar corporate acquisitions and see no reason to give away their best ideas for a pittance when they can just modify the toys that are already in the playground. OK. That serves as an argument as to why this trend exists, but it doesn’t counter the fact that the trend exists, and is a valid response to the OP’s question. Also, hasn’t the royalty structure changed to the point where it’d be lucrative to create a character, and have that character go on to great heights?

None of these changes were made to satisfy what you call 'social justice warriors'. Marvel and DC are doing what they've ALWAYS done. Rehash the same old ideas and shake things up by changing characters temporarily. You think it was an accident that there was a black woman, a Canadian, a Native American (and others) on Giant Sized X-Men #1? Of course not. They were trying to diversify. You think when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the Black Panther, it was just on whim? NO. They were trying to make a SOCIAL statement. Were they SJW's? What is the difference between then and now? They invented new characters, as Artboy99 suggested.

 Those are all Silver Age, with the possible exception of SuperTransvestite, so that point is moot. I don’t think it’s ever been taken to the extreme that it has in the last ten years, though. Hulk derivatives, Spider-Man derivatives, symbiotes out the wazoo, characters with claws and healing factors, amalgamated characters... please, lord, just let it stop.

If John were here, you'd get a 'Ba-Dum-Bum-Bum'

CGC's argument is that submitters noted it as her first...

Forget 'Weekend at Bernie's' … how about 'Weekend at Stan's' ?

Why are you assuming that the people who did not preorder one, but want one from their local comic shop are "dirty flippers" out to just make money? Observation of behavior in the hobby over the last few years probably justifies his cynicism.

For me, the best comics only require a suspension of disbelief around the main concept. Early Spider-Man stories only really required the buy-in to the concept that a man could be bitten by a radioactive spider, and end up with spider like abilities. The rest of Peter Parker's life was grounded in a very relatable reality.

Far from it. You've got me thinking!

CGC doesn't recommend that I'm sure their accountant would.

Tough job. There's deadline stress, month after month. That's doubly hard if you are in the majority of people with time management and procrastination issues. If you work at home, there's isolation issues. That would take a toll on mood. Job security, both from performance, and the whimsies of the market and editors, would be stressful. It's sedentary - lots of sitting - minimal exercise - temptations to snack, smoke and drink to excess. There'd be interpersonal stress - not getting along with the writer or other members of the creative team, or having a hard editor (hello, Mr Shooter). I think of Wally Wood when I consider the grind of monthly art.

I was bagging some of his early Spider-Mans (in the 200s) the other day and thought about his age. I'm 46, and I started doing the math... and holy cow! He is 62! You never expect these guys to age. You have that one picture of them in your brain when you met them, and that's the age they'll always be. Funny you mention JR jr. My first ASM off the stands was 208, his debut issue. There was a picture of him on the Stan's Soapbox page - the young pup in his 20s, breaking in - and I still picture him as that.

You're completely wrong, well according to him at least. On a closely related topic, I do want to urge everyone who reads my newsletter to please resolve to support their local comics retailer during 2019. The economics of selling new issues has become total madness as the cover prices of periodical comics now reach up into the $5/copy range. With comics retailers buying non-returnable (an arrangement that I helped to pioneer in the late-1970's), all the risk is upon them as regards unsold product. That worked well when cover prices were under $1, but today's high cover prices are causing crippling losses to comics retailers whenever a title sells fewer copies than expected. I think oakland is referring to Chuck's back issue pricing. I'm not a big fan of Chuck's, but he's dead on with his laments about the difficulty of ordering and managing new issue sales.

Ahem! JOHN Legend?

I'll call him in, but, remember, if I do, there's no going back...

It's not even modern wood!! It's mostly Copper and Bronze wood!

It's from Grand Master Flash - They said It Couldn't Be Done. As much as I'm a fan of hip hop and music in general, I never liked the idea of mimicking the covers especially when most were done poorly. It SHOULDN'T have been done.

yeah sure.... you can buy one of these $100 bills for only $80 US I'll sell you some for $80 US.

 Trust me, don’t go behind any warehouse with 500club Hey, now, it’s you guys who take customers at shows out to the van to ‘look at stock’.

Yup. You live out that way. Have you ever been to the legendary warehouse in Steinbach?

1976 is Copper?!? Early Copper. Like a cameo. Before the full appearance of Copper.

I love irony.