Spider-Dan

Why would someone destroy a books Pedigree provenance? I do not understand.

 

Isn't the book worth more as a Pedigree?

 

I cracked an Old Label ASM #29 for re-subbing in hopes a grade bump. I did not realize it was the Green River Pedigree and I didnt add the Pedigree to the sub form. I screwed up. When I posted it for sale it took all of 5 minutes before Bob the Board Cop posted what it WAS. And even went as far as posting a scan of it. In MY sales thread.

 

Bob the Board Cop?

 

Why are you so mad at Bob for catching your mistake? Seems that he is all

about disclosure and honest selling practices and you're upset that you've

been caught losing pedigree status at the minimum.

 

An honest seller should welcome scuitiny of their sales thread as they have

nothing to hide

 

I amitted to my mistake on the GR ped. I wasnt upset about that. It was an oversight. Thats just where the ill-will started with him. He was pretty ticked about it. (I may still have the PM's). Im upset about the way he went about my upgrades. I dont feel that it needs to be disclosed. And since its not a Board rule, I dont feel I made a mistake. They are in a CGC case stating the grade. I feel its irrelavent what they were.

It probably is just coincidence. Either that or your prices on the items you currently have for sale are too high for the CGC boards.

Thanks for the input. I thought I was good being a little below GPA on Hi Grade Silver. Maybe just a bad time for higher dollar books.

Oh.. And keep up the good work Officer Bob (thumbs u

 

The issue is weather or not I should have disclosed prior grades or not.

No Dan, it really is not about you or your threads. I think most folks would present their sales threads exactly as you do. Certainly in other forums (auctions, ebay etc.) comics are presented for sale exactly as yours. Personally I have no problem with listing a book for sale at its present grade. But I also understand that there are folks who want more info. And there are folks who are diligent in investigating for info. You just happened to have a few books that fall into the easily investigated category. It's part of the business when upgrading books previously bought publicly. That info is easily accessible and out there for those who choose to look. Bob looked, he found, and he presented that info where he thought it would reach the people interested in it. Your books, your thread. It could have been anyone who had the same set of circumstances. But luck of the draw for you.

I understand, but I dont want a reputaion of "dishonesty", or "deceptiveness". Because its just NOT true. Ive worked too hard within these boards to be tarnished by someone else opinion of what's to be disclosed or not. And what he's doing is just that, creating that image of me. This is the 2nd time he's stuck his nose where it didnt belong. Im not trying to hide anything! Proof is in the thread. Since Bob's comment, Ive sold nothing. I know its Christmas time, but not even a PM! Coincidence?? You tell me...

Whether you are right or wrong being left completely aside, if this becomes the precedent, then the precedent that is set is not just going to obtain for multi-thousand dollar SA books. If the consensus is that this is an issue (like pressing was) then it will be important to be consistent across the Board.

Whether Bob is right or wrong is exactly the precedent. We can't leave it aside. The issue is not whether you would need to disclose what prior grade your SS Avengers was. The issue is if someone else knew what prior grade it was do they have a right to tell everyone else. And if so, where do they present that info.

 

No one seems to get up in arms when someone posts a prior grade on an auction lot in Heritage, ComicLink, etc. But if someone makes those same claims against a fellow boardie in their sales thread all hell breaks loose.

Thats not the issue for Bob. He's made that clear when he chimed in on my thread without 1st asking me about it, or bringing it up in any other forum. (This makes twice for him) He seems pretty clear on that.

The issue is weather or not I should have disclosed prior grades or not.

 

Do you have to disclose or not??

No. You don't have to disclose. But you do have to be prepared for the instance where someone else does the disclosing for you. The issue here is whether that other person has the right to do that. And where is that appropriate.

I agree. In the appropriate place (thumbs u

This book was in a 9.4 blue label holder. I cracked it and got it signed by Steve Englehart. If I ever decided to sell it, is the proposal that I have to disclose what it was before? Also, this is not hypothetical.

 

No.

 

But if it were me, I would. I certainly would on a big ticket item like an old SA highgrade book with a four grand asking price. And if you don't, and someone else knows that it used to be graded two units lower, be prepared that they might provide the information that you've chosen not to.

 

"No" - So then YOU have the Authority to pick and choose what has to be disclosed based on dollar value?

 

You seem confused. All of us have responsibility in keeping the commerce in our marketplace of high integrity.

 

Im not confused. Based on your "No" answer, your contradicting yourself

 

You seemed very clear-cut when you started this campaign against me, now your talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

Do you have to disclose or not??

 

No. But you should, because it provides information useful to a subset of prospective buyers. It's selling with full integrity. And if you don't, you should be prepared to have the information posted by somebody else that has it. And not turn to threats and obsenities.

 

No threats here. And Cmon its almost 2012 azz isnt obscene

 

What I dont understand is if YOU were interested in the FF as you claimed earlier, that it would be a nice upgrade for you, why not just send me a PM and ask me?? Is it because I told you I would never sell books to you because of they way you treated me in the Green River incident? Or is it you get kicks out of doing detective work thinking your busting people? I dont get it...

 

That's true, you don't get it.

 

What was there to send you a pm about, Dan? I own an FF26 in 9.2 and, to learn more about your pricing and the availability of other copies, I went on the Link. I found your copy in an old 9.0 off-white slab. It's the same book without a doubt.

 

Like I posted before, and not everyone may agree with this, but to me a two grade unit change on a four thousand dollar comic is important information to provide prospective buyers. I know I felt compelled to provide it when I had a big ticket book go through this circumstance. It made me suspect that perhaps your 9.4 copy might be a softly graded one, and so I decided to pass on it.

 

It's an interesting strategy you're taking, Dan, by playing the wounded party, but the reality is that you witheld information about your FF26 that is important to a subset of prospective buyers. Now that the information is out in the open, your customer base is much better informed for making buying decisions that they'll be satisfied with. You should want that from your customer base.

Im not playing victim. You seem to have some personal vendetta against me, and thats fine, I dont care. Makes things interesting.

Bottom line is this... You jumped in MY sales thread where you didnt belong. I asked you after you PM'd me grief for the Green River book to Please dont post in my threads again. If you've seen my sales threads (you obviously have) Its simple.. Book - Grade - Price.. Any question - Feel free to PM me. I dont desribe any "soft corners", "printer marks", etc... All that stuff can be answered through PM. Its NOT YOUR JOB to add your comments. If you feel Im being dishonest post it here. NOT in my thread.

This book was in a 9.4 blue label holder. I cracked it and got it signed by Steve Englehart. If I ever decided to sell it, is the proposal that I have to disclose what it was before? Also, this is not hypothetical.

 

No, you don't have to.

 

But if it were me, I would. I certainly would on a big ticket item like an old SA highgrade book with a four grand asking price. Indeed I did so the one time I sold a book that fits the bill. And if you don't, and someone else knows that it used to be graded two units lower, be prepared that they might provide the information that you've chosen not to.

 

Bob, that is part of the issue as I see it. Whether you are right or wrong being left completely aside, if this becomes the precedent, then the precedent that is set is not just going to obtain for multi-thousand dollar SA books. If the consensus is that this is an issue (like pressing was) then it will be important to be consistent across the Board.

 

And even though I consider it to be a non-issue (as i did pressing) I will provide in my sales threads all the information that the Boards determine to be appropriate.

 

So is Bob an outlier, or is this something that has consensus?

Outlier.

+1

This book was in a 9.4 blue label holder. I cracked it and got it signed by Steve Englehart. If I ever decided to sell it, is the proposal that I have to disclose what it was before? Also, this is not hypothetical.

 

No.

 

But if it were me, I would. I certainly would on a big ticket item like an old SA highgrade book with a four grand asking price. And if you don't, and someone else knows that it used to be graded two units lower, be prepared that they might provide the information that you've chosen not to.

 

"No" - So then YOU have the Authority to pick and choose what has to be disclosed based on dollar value?

 

You seem confused. All of us have responsibility in keeping the commerce in our marketplace of high integrity.

 

Im not confused. Based on your "No" answer, your contradicting yourself

 

You seemed very clear-cut when you started this campaign against me, now your talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

Do you have to disclose or not??

 

No. But you should, because it provides information useful to a subset of prospective buyers. It's selling with full integrity. And if you don't, you should be prepared to have the information posted by somebody else that has it. And not turn to threats and obsenities.

No threats here. And Cmon its almost 2012 azz isnt obscene

What I dont understand is if YOU were interested in the FF as you claimed earlier, that it would be a nice upgrade for you, why not just send me a PM and ask me?? Is it because I told you I would never sell books to you because of they way you treated me in the Green River incident? Or is it you get kicks out of doing detective work thinking your busting people? I dont get it...

Why would someone destroy a books Pedigree provenance? I do not understand.

 

Isn't the book worth more as a Pedigree?

I cracked an Old Label ASM #29 for re-subbing in hopes a grade bump. I did not realize it was the Green River Pedigree and I didnt add the Pedigree to the sub form. I screwed up. When I posted it for sale it took all of 5 minutes before Bob the Board Cop posted what it WAS. And even went as far as posting a scan of it. In MY sales thread.

This book was in a 9.4 blue label holder. I cracked it and got it signed by Steve Englehart. If I ever decided to sell it, is the proposal that I have to disclose what it was before? Also, this is not hypothetical.

 

No.

 

But if it were me, I would. I certainly would on a big ticket item like an old SA highgrade book with a four grand asking price. And if you don't, and someone else knows that it used to be graded two units lower, be prepared that they might provide the information that you've chosen not to.

 

"No" - So then YOU have the Authority to pick and choose what has to be disclosed based on dollar value?

 

You seem confused. All of us have responsibility in keeping the commerce in our marketplace of high integrity.

Im not confused. Based on your "No" answer, your contradicting yourself

You seemed very clear-cut when you started this campaign against me, now your talking out both sides of your mouth.

Do you have to disclose or not??

This book was in a 9.4 blue label holder. I cracked it and got it signed by Steve Englehart. If I ever decided to sell it, is the proposal that I have to disclose what it was before? Also, this is not hypothetical.

 

No.

 

But if it were me, I would. I certainly would on a big ticket item like an old SA highgrade book with a four grand asking price. And if you don't, and someone else knows that it used to be graded two units lower, be prepared that they might provide the information that you've chosen not to.

"No" - So then YOU have the Authority to pick and choose what has to be disclosed based on dollar value? WOW

 

"Multiple" board memebers? And offering"s"?.

 

It was one book, and one PM by you, AND I owned up to it IN thread.

 

The only "Multiple" I know is the number of Boardies that have PM'd me in the last 2 days telling me to ignore you because your an a**

 

Nice shot, Dan.

 

I recall identifying one of your previous offerings as an unattributed Boston copy, and pointed out in your thread that the book was from a Pedigree. After doing so, I received private messages from two other board members who pointed out to me other examples from your prior sales. Hence, my use of the term 'multiple'.

I dont recall cracking any other Ped's. I did sell a Boston Ped STILL in the Old Case

Anyone wanna guess who it was that KRAPPED in my ASM 29 Pedigree thread when it was sale???

Are you the Chief of the Board police or just an Officer?

Which, if it was straight, documented fact and not conjecture, presented in an unbiased way with a minimum of labeling *cough* deceitful *cough* and presented as a question and not a conclusion I think most people would not have a problem with that information being presented in their sales thread if it was impossible to correct the listing or get a proper answer via PM.

 

"

 

There was no conjecture over the comic in question, as it's the same comic. Also, as the seller has on prior occasions been reminded via pm by multiple board members that some of his offerings are pedigree comics that have had their provenance erased with his resubmission, and he's chosen to do nothing about it, a pm would have been without purpose.

"Multiple" board memebers? And offering"s"?.

It was one book, and one PM by you, AND I owned up to it IN thread.

The only "Multiple" I know is the number of Boardies that have PM'd me in the last 2 days telling me to ignore you because your an a**

Is it wrong to buy a raw book at a LCS which is grossly undergraded, and then put it up on the Boards for sale with the correct grade and make a profit?

 

How is that different that what I did in this case?

 

Would you disclose what the 1st seller graded it at, then disclose what you paid for it in your sales thread? You may PM that info to a potentail buyer, but you wouldnt post it in the sales thread.

 

What Bob did is the same thing by posting links in this thread to the books on CL. The books were undergraded to begin with, now everyone know what my potentail profit is.

 

I have a problem with sellers who press books and sell without disclosure. We've all been around the block enough times to know that pressing is a contentious issue around here and I can only assume sellers hide pressing to increase profit

So would I, but thats not the case here

Is it wrong to buy a raw book at a LCS which is grossly undergraded, and then put it up on the Boards for sale with the correct grade and make a profit?

How is that different that what I did in this case?

Would you disclose what the 1st seller graded it at, then disclose what you paid for it in your sales thread? You may PM that info to a potentail buyer, but you wouldnt post it in the sales thread.

What Bob did is the same thing by posting links in this thread to the books on CL. The books were undergraded to begin with, now everyone know what my potentail profit is.

 

Thats the bottom line. You were wrong in what you did.

 

Ive never hidden anything from any buyers. Most of my Hi Dollar books have been sold through PM's where the buyer was told any history I've know about the book. Most people dont post the I'll take it on a $4000 book without asking questions 1st. Check my Kudo's thread... Ive sold to alot of the "Big Guns" on these Boards with nothing but good things to say about the transaction.

 

I think you do have any agenda, I feel that your "Policeing" my threads beacuase your on the Never Kill a Pedigree side of the fence. And thats fine.. thats your opinion. My opinion happens to be different that yours. Seems like the people are pretty split on that issue.

 

If it sits in a 9.6 CGC slab, then its a 9.6 according to todays standards. In my OPINION, it doesnt matter if it used to be a 9.2! How do I know that it didnt come from a 9.0 slab before that??

 

I went and added all the old CGC opinions in my new thread. ONLY beacuse some of the other Boardies in this discussion feel its important to THEM!

 

I dont want any Boardies to think Im "Deceitful".. Ive made alot of money on these Boards, but Ive also given alot of great deals to fellow Boardies, and have silently given to Charities that have come up, and Donated books (a few hi dollar ones) to be auctioned to help other Board members in thier time of need. So to say Im dishonest rubs me the wrong way!

 

Im officially off my Soapbox

Without taking any sides about the Namisgr's post I have a question for the Boards...

'If' you were the buyer = actually bought the book in the ballpark of the 4K asking price, and later found out the book was a 9.0 would you be upset ?

 

Not in anyway. If I purchased a CGC 9.4 comic and got a CGC 9.4 comic I'm a happy camper. One of the reasons I switched to only selling CGC graded comics on eBay. I am selling a CGC 9.8. It is what it is. If there are any concerns or someone wants a story then they have the freedom to ask.

 

Namisgr was not a potential buyer and is not the be all end all of what is relevant to the prospective buyer.

Just got my FF #12 from Mike. Super fast shipping and it was VERY well packed!

I wont hesitate to buy again! (thumbs u

Sold a Hi Dollar SA ASM to Dale. He paid right away, and saved me a ton in PP fees!!

Thanks

Just bought a nice small SA lot of ASM. Very pleased with the deal!!

Thanks (thumbs u

Sold a nice SA Journey into Mystery to Adam, and the transaction went perfect!

Thanks

Sold Bill a Hi Grade ASM, and all went without a hitch!!

Thanks

Just got a few Bronze ASM's from Nik, and they are great!

Thanks (thumbs u

Bought a raw Avengers 57 and it was great! Packing was "bomb-proof"

I hope to do more buisness in the future

Sold a nice graded ST to him, and all went Perfect!

Thanks!