Spider-Dan

So the stain shows up, the seller is not budging on 16k or the buyer doesn't want a book with a stain on it?

 

Lots of us would be picky on a book like this with a stain and a 16K price tag. The notes are saying this stain runs the length of the book. This is what kind of baffles me. I've had books just hammered for a tiny dot sized stain.

 

I totally agree. If I could even afford a 16k book right now, I would be more than picky about it's condition and I would make more than sure it's exactly what I would want. I am just curious if the seller hasn't made another offer. The seller clearly didn't realize the stain was there, and from what pics I have seen, it was a really hard defect to spot.

 

IF it was me (and I hate doing what if's) I would express my disappointment as a buyer and decline altogether and look for a more desirable copy.

 

IF I was the seller, I would totally discount my price based on what CGC has issued. Or unslab it completely and have it as a raw sale.

 

I don't buy/sell comics. I am just a collector and not in the "business". But I could see how this is a surprise to EVERYBODY and it seems to me the classy thing to do would be discount the price or hold on to the book and resell it.

 

I really cannot see how any one person is backing out of this deal in a bad way.

Why would I discount a book because it has a stain. CGC graded it an 8.0 WITH the stain. They didn't miss it.

And for the record, I don't consider myself a dealer. Just a guy who likes to buy and sell (thumbs u

I would think if the seller offered the prospective buyer the chance to back out of the deal completely with no mention of "punishment" then this is a non-issue IMHO.

 

 

 

-slym

 

This is what I was just wondering about as well. Did Bob KNOW you meant you were going to nominate him if he backed out or was that discussed AFTER he chose that option?

 

I believe so. It was his idea

 

Dan, I am disappointed too. I'm having trouble understanding why you were not agreeable to an all cash deal, especially since I was going to pay full asking. I'm a collector, I am having a difficult time letting go of my book, does that make me a sleazeball ? Your call whether you want to call me out on the Boards.

 

 

I thought that quote from Bob was before he found out about the stain and had nothing to do with the stain that wasn't known until after grading?

 

It was before the stain was even an issue. If we negotiate a cash/trade deal. We both agree on the deal (and have PM's to prove it) then after that PM buyer tries to re-negotiate the deal, is that not a form of backing out. The deal wasn't cash only. Buyer approached me with the cash/trade deal. It was better than a cash only deal for me. Why would I want to change that??

I would think if the seller offered the prospective buyer the chance to back out of the deal completely with no mention of "punishment" then this is a non-issue IMHO.

 

 

 

-slym

 

This is what I was just wondering about as well. Did Bob KNOW you meant you were going to nominate him if he backed out or was that discussed AFTER he chose that option?

I believe so. It was his idea

Dan, I am disappointed too. I'm having trouble understanding why you were not agreeable to an all cash deal, especially since I was going to pay full asking. I'm a collector, I am having a difficult time letting go of my book, does that make me a sleazeball ? Your call whether you want to call me out on the Boards.

Lets post the whole PM:

Its obvious your going to continue to come up with reasons to back out of our agreement

.

So I guess you have 3 options

1 - The original cash/trade deal

2 - 16K cash

3 - Back out of the deal completely

Please LMK asap, as I may have to explore other selling avenues

Response:

I am backing out.

Dan sent me two pics.

- Upon looking at the pics I can see that the bottom corner, in a different 'light' is still there and looks like a stain to me. Dan already stated in the sales thread he thought it was just the light. I called for the notes, remember this is the first time I had a cert number. When I saw the 'whole book stain' note I contacted Dan with the following...

'Dan, here's the deal, that bottom right corner of the back cover looks like a stain. When asked about it in your sales thread you said it was just an odd light. Now that I know the cert number I just sent for notes.It is a book length stain. That's a killer flaw. Many would consider this book overgraded.'

Dan then replied that he only said he thought' it was the light.

I replied......

'Dan, yes, that is what you said. I didn't ask anymore about it because I assumed you were correct. However, it was really pronounced in the slab pic, hence I got the notes. All the history aside, now that we know it's a stain, IMO it's still a desirable book but not worthy of a 16K price.'

Dan replied ..................

So I guess you have 3 options

 

1 - The original cash/trade deal

 

2 - 16K cash

 

3 - Back out of the deal completely

 

Please LMK asap, as I may have to explore other selling avenues'

 

I replied that I will back out.

With these facts, I feel like I'm siding with the buyer here. And the third option, to back out, was offered? Why wasn't that mentioned in the discussion?

 

And please post the new pictures.

That is ALWAYS an option. After offering the 1st 2 options earlier, buyer wanted to renegotiate the deal again. The 3rd option has consequence. Buyer knew that

I can barely see it on the back cover, its quite big actually. Goes into the green of the ad and starts at the bottom corner.

 

Can't see a thing on the inside back at all....

 

That's not the stain. Graders note - "Right Bottom Back Cover Lite Smear"

 

AHHH k... sorry, I have NO experience with grading, just stating what I can see

That's OK, obviously I don't either

I can barely see it on the back cover, its quite big actually. Goes into the green of the ad and starts at the bottom corner.

 

Can't see a thing on the inside back at all....

That's not the stain. Graders note - "Right Bottom Back Cover Lite Smear"

Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand.

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

 

That's the thing... I DIDNT have the book in hand. It was in transit from Florida. If I had it in hand, I would have taken and posted a pic and answered the question the best I could

 

Here is something I never understand. Why are things being sold before they are in hand?

 

If we were going to vote on rules, that would be my number one pick. No selling until you have the item in front of you.

 

 

I just never understand the rush.

 

I'd like to hear from Bob, but I have a question Dan. You said he offered to pay full price, if I'm reading correctly you didn't accept his offer because you thought the part trade/cash was a better deal for you. However you listed it as a cash deal. If you had accepted the cash, and then when it arrived, he didn't like the fact the book had a stain (not a light shadow), what would you have done?

 

While I agree with not selling before in hand, which I rarely do, in this case if the one in the CL January auction would have finished well below GPA (which it finished almost $1600 below) that would have affected the value of this one. Of course if it would have finished higher, it would have been in my favor. That's my reasoning for putting it up before having it in hand. As far as the other question, I cant answer that, because that's not what happened.

I'm still trying to see the stain on any interior pages

 

 

 

How could I miss that!!

Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand.

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

 

That's the thing... I DIDNT have the book in hand. It was in transit from Florida. If I had it in hand, I would have taken and posted a pic and answered the question the best I could

 

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

Interesting point. If the deal had gone through, he had received the book, noticed the stain, ordered the grading notes to confirm that it was a stain, and then asked to return the book, then what? Seems like there is some ambiguity here particularly if the seller indicated in the thread that he didn't think there was a stain.

 

If you submitted the book raw, which I assume you did, why did you tell him something different when he asked about the stain? I mean if you sent the book in I'm sure you looked it over with a fine tooth comb right.

 

The stain is so light I didn't notice it. The day I got the book, I took some pics and sent it off. I barely handled it for fear of damaging it. Had I know, I absolutely would have stated that.

 

I think he's referring to when you had it in hand before you sent it out for grading.

Here is that answer again...

Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand.

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

That's the thing... I DIDNT have the book in hand. It was in transit from Florida. If I had it in hand, I would have taken and posted a pic and answered the question the best I could

I didn't mis-represent the book. I provided pics and scans

I did NOT know whether it was a stain or not. I thought it could have been a weird shadow from the light because I never noticed the stain. Therefore I went with "odd-light" which quoted the Boardies question.

In the past Ive had potential buyers ask me to put the book on hold until we can work a deal, which Ive done. No problem

The buyer saw the same pics everyone else saw, and never asked for any more info. Surprising for a guy whos so picky on his books and this one having a 16K ask price.

Dan said it himself. Two previous potential buyers had flaked on him (why aren't they up for probation) - Because both books were raw, and buyers disagreed with the grade upon closer inspection of pics. PL worthy... maybe, but it wasn't worth it. I let them off the hook because they would have just returned the books anyway

Does that mean that if it was a $5 book he wouldn't take the time to report? Probably. - Probably

 

But the lack of leeway for the note situation - I believe "stain" is buyers last resort to break the deal

I just hope Bob comes and states his case soon, as I don't want this to be a Bash-Bob thread.

I just want the rules enforced.

Not that it matters, but I just want to put this "stain" into perspective

CGC notes claim the stain goes through the whole book

Here are cropped pics of it pre-slab

You can see how it might be missed in a haste

I don't mean to speak for him, but I know Bob personally and I can say with 100% certainty that he's not the kind of guy to weasel out of a deal. I know that he's a very picky collector and that something like that stain would definitely bother him.

 

I think it would bother anyone on a transaction this large.

For purposes of Probation or Not, lets forget the stain.

This was PM'd to me BEFORE the "stain" became an issue

Your call whether you want to call me out on the Boards.

So it doesn't really apply here

Jan 24 - I received a PM with Bob attempting to alter the deal by keeping one of his books and adding more cash. I denied that change

 

Jan 26 - I received a PM from Bob asking to alter the deal again. This time he wanted to keep both books and pay my asking price for the book. I said no to that too because the cash/trade deal was (GPA value wise) tilted in my favor as Bob pointed out in our original negotiations.

 

-- Bob said as a collector he was having a hard time letting go of one of his books and it was up to me me whether I "called him out on the Boards" Yet during the original negotiations, Bob stated that he was actually considering upgrading that book, and it would be easy to replace.

 

Jan 27 - I PM'd Bob and told him I would be willing to accept his cash offer, as it was obvious he wasn't going to trade his books.

 

The JIM arrives at my house. I PM's Bob asking where we stand. He said he would like to explore some other trade options. At that point I said we have 2 options...

1 - The original deal

2 - full asking price as he offered

 

Bob called and got grading notes. There is a stain on the bottom back corner which was asked about IN the original thread to which I responded "I think the bottom back corner is just an odd light". The book was at CGC, so I couldn't be 100% sure. Bob said due to that, "Many would consider this to be overgraded"

 

At that point Bob backed out

 

 

Looks like buyers remorse to me. He tried just about everything to change the concept of the deal...when that was denied he decided maybe there is something I can do with the graders notes. Got them and said small stain there is my ace.

 

Had the events timeline transpired differently it would be a different story.

BINGO !

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

Interesting point. If the deal had gone through, he had received the book, noticed the stain, ordered the grading notes to confirm that it was a stain, and then asked to return the book, then what? Seems like there is some ambiguity here particularly if the seller indicated in the thread that he didn't think there was a stain.

 

If you submitted the book raw, which I assume you did, why did you tell him something different when he asked about the stain? I mean if you sent the book in I'm sure you looked it over with a fine tooth comb right.

The stain is so light I didn't notice it. The day I got the book, I took some pics and sent it off. I barely handled it for fear of damaging it. Had I know, I absolutely would have stated that.

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

Lets not sidetrack the thread. This didn't happen.

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

Most (maybe not all) people don't accept returns on 3rd party graded books.

How does something like this work? If he doesn't want the book because of the graders notes...doesn't he have the right not to buy it? As a seller, I would want to be sure the buyer is going to be happy with what they're buying

 

Had he taken it "pending notes", or "pending scans" that would be different. He could have asked me for the CGC number to get notes on day one, as it was slabbed, just not delivered

 

Dan, you also mentioned that he changed the first agreed deal/trade as well, correct?

No - The original agreed upon deal was never changed. He asked about changing it twice, but neither deal was appealing to me

How does something like this work? If he doesn't want the book because of the graders notes...doesn't he have the right not to buy it? As a seller, I would want to be sure the buyer is going to be happy with what they're buying

Had he taken it "pending notes", or "pending scans" that would be different. He could have asked me for the CGC number to get notes on day one, as it was slabbed, just not delivered

Bob seems like a nice guy, so I hate that it has to come to this. I don't do a lot of trading, and I was kind of enjoying it.

But their are consequences for our actions. If their weren't, people would back out all the time.

BTW - It is back for sale again

Dan, just to comply with the rules, was a separate PM sent stating his nomination to the PL and has the 72 hour time passed?

A separate PM was sent, but he already PM's stating he wanted out

Edit - I just re-read the guidelines, and if I read right, he has 72 hours to respond to the this before being placed on the PL, not before I ask him to be put there

Sorry to hear that Dan... that JIM 83 is an incredible copy.

Thanks Rupp

This is the 3rd Boardie to flake out in the last month. I let the others go, but this was a 5 figure deal. Just cant let this one go.