Spider-Dan

Really hoping we get an update from the OP on this today...

I haven't heard a peep

I don't really expect to

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

They did, and then an obvious competitor in BGS started up. Obvious because they were behind the price guide Beckett. Overstreet would be the logical company to start a competitor. PSA is still number 1, but BGS is 1a. Then you have a few other companies that no one takes seriously.

Overstreet would be the perfect candidate, as most people use them for thier grading standards anyway

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

My best guess is that it was a 6.0 blue all along and the PLOD was a mistake both in grade and trimming detection.

Yes it does. Basically, you can time the actual day of grading by using the Walkthru = they grade it the day it's received, or the next day. In this case it is suspicious the submitter gamed the system by submitting it on a day the whole crew was out of town. Very relevant.

This book needs to be sent back to CGC for inspection. Otherwise, how can CGC respond to any of this. I've talked to some people, outside of the Boards, and the one common response is why did the submitter flaunt this?

I'm still in the camp that CGC got played.

 

I don't think the buyer did anything but get lucky. Would you send it back Bob? I wouldn't. Buyer isn't flaunting anything.

 

He's actually being very humble about the whole thing. He didn't do anything other than to LMK that I was right when I originally started this thread, in that CGC is NOT as consistent as everyone thinks they are.

 

Well, they were consistent when they graded it blue, twice.

 

 

Consistent = 3 for 3 (thumbs u

 

Hey, 1 for 3 gets you into the HOF!

Unless your Pete Rose

CGC is NOT as consistent as everyone thinks they are.

 

Maybe you ought to speak for yourself. Plenty of threads have had plenty of posters raise issues surrounding the inconsistency of the numerical grade, the page quality grade, and the label color.

I wont speak for you or I'll end up having to defend myself at The Water Cooler

Yes it does. Basically, you can time the actual day of grading by using the Walkthru = they grade it the day it's received, or the next day. In this case it is suspicious the submitter gamed the system by submitting it on a day the whole crew was out of town. Very relevant.

This book needs to be sent back to CGC for inspection. Otherwise, how can CGC respond to any of this. I've talked to some people, outside of the Boards, and the one common response is why did the submitter flaunt this?

I'm still in the camp that CGC got played.

 

Whose fault is that? If didnt have enough manpower on sight then thats a screwup on their part. The owner of the book is under no legal obligation to send the book back to help CGC cover up their mistake.. CGC has to survive the brunt of this on their own.

 

Can someone post a full schedule of when CGC will be doing on-site grading?

 

 

So just out of curiousity. Now that you "have lost ALL confidence in CGC graded books"; you will stop buying them, resubbing them and reselling them, correct?

Incorrect. Until a better company comes along.......

Yes it does. Basically, you can time the actual day of grading by using the Walkthru = they grade it the day it's received, or the next day. In this case it is suspicious the submitter gamed the system by submitting it on a day the whole crew was out of town. Very relevant.

This book needs to be sent back to CGC for inspection. Otherwise, how can CGC respond to any of this. I've talked to some people, outside of the Boards, and the one common response is why did the submitter flaunt this?

I'm still in the camp that CGC got played.

 

Whose fault is that? If didnt have enough manpower on sight then thats a screwup on their part. The owner of the book is under no legal obligation to send the book back to help CGC cover up their mistake.. CGC has to survive the brunt of this on their own.

Can someone post a full schedule of when CGC will be doing on-site grading?

Yes it does. Basically, you can time the actual day of grading by using the Walkthru = they grade it the day it's received, or the next day. In this case it is suspicious the submitter gamed the system by submitting it on a day the whole crew was out of town. Very relevant.

This book needs to be sent back to CGC for inspection. Otherwise, how can CGC respond to any of this. I've talked to some people, outside of the Boards, and the one common response is why did the submitter flaunt this?

I'm still in the camp that CGC got played.

 

I don't think the buyer did anything but get lucky. Would you send it back Bob? I wouldn't. Buyer isn't flaunting anything.

 

He's actually being very humble about the whole thing. He didn't do anything other than to LMK that I was right when I originally started this thread, in that CGC is NOT as consistent as everyone thinks they are.

 

Well, they were consistent when they graded it blue, twice.

 

Consistent = 3 for 3 (thumbs u

Yes it does. Basically, you can time the actual day of grading by using the Walkthru = they grade it the day it's received, or the next day. In this case it is suspicious the submitter gamed the system by submitting it on a day the whole crew was out of town. Very relevant.

This book needs to be sent back to CGC for inspection. Otherwise, how can CGC respond to any of this. I've talked to some people, outside of the Boards, and the one common response is why did the submitter flaunt this?

I'm still in the camp that CGC got played.

I don't think the buyer did anything but get lucky. Would you send it back Bob? I wouldn't. Buyer isn't flaunting anything.

He's actually being very humble about the whole thing. He didn't do anything other than to LMK that I was right when I originally started this thread, in that CGC is NOT as consistent as everyone thinks they are.

The "burn it" comment, might be the most absurd posting EVER on this forum. A JIM #83, that almost anyone and everyone who collects, would be happy to have in their collection. Or for later resale. Whom among us would not?

 

I suspect the originator of that statement, regrets he made it. Hence his "bow out".

 

I believe the same person suggested I pay CGC the difference in value if one of my books get a grade bump

I'll try next time and see what they say , but Im guessing that paying them for a grade bump just might go against their policy

OK - Im finally back. Started midnight shift last night,,

Anyway -

- I am NOT looking for any type of compensation for this book AT ALL. While I wasn't thrilled, I was satisfied with CGC's solution the 1st time around.

- I washed my hands to this book, but was PM'd by the buyer yesterday. I don't feel he was stirring any pot. Knowing the situation surrounding this book, I would have done the same exact thing.

- I DONT believe the buyer is a "Big Gun" in the submission game. He bought this book for his collection, and that is where I was told it is going to stay.

- Once I learned of this new grade, I felt it my obligation to this Community to let everyone know about it.

- I can only speak for myself, but to imply any type of shadiness on my part is silly. What could I possibly have to gain?

- Harshen's reply is NOT an exact quote. I went through my email's and that must have been in a phone conversation.

- Harshen did respond quickly to an email yesterday saying he would look into it, but wouldn't be able to do so until Tuesday

The real crime here, isnt that people missed trimming TWICE, since the books been subbed three times, and only came back purple once. It's the fact that they are so admant about not making things right or admitting the error the first time.

 

I'm not sure it's been established that the book is actually trimmed or not.

Due to the Scarlet letter on this book, new owner wishes to remain unknown.

Looks like the same rug to me.

Good point, no scanner for this high value book. Lay it on the floor and take a photo...

Close, but I don't think its the same

I'm no CGC zombie but this is almost too good to be true for anti CGCers. Smells like a set-up.

The purple label 7.0 was graded before the blue label 6.0. Plus, why would anyone want to go to the expense for a setup? There's really nothing to be gained other than bad press and the CGC certainly doesn't need anyone's help in that regard.

 

Certification #: 0227546002

Title: Journey Into Mystery

Issue: 83

Issue Date: 8/62

Issue Year: 1962

Publisher: Marvel Comics

Grade: 7.0

Pedigree: COVER TRIMMED

Page Quality: OFF-WHITE TO WHITE

Label Text: TOP EDGE OF COVER TRIMMED.

Grade Date: 02/14/2014

Category: Apparent

Art Comments: Stan Lee story

Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko art

Jack Kirby cover

Key Comments: Origin and 1st appearance of Thor

(Doctor Don Blake).

 

 

Certification #: 0230667003

Title: Journey Into Mystery

Issue: 83

Issue Date: 8/62

Issue Year: 1962

Publisher: Marvel Comics

Grade: 6.0

Page Quality: OFF-WHITE

Grade Date: 03/27/2014

Category: Universal

Art Comments: Stan Lee story

Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko art

Jack Kirby cover

Key Comments: Origin and 1st appearance of Thor

(Doctor Don Blake).

 

What really confuses me are the grade dates. Only several weeks apart. This book and all the hoopla had to be fresh in their memories. You'd have to be completely incompetent for not a single CGC employee to go, "Hey isn't this the comic we just had all the....."

 

And how did it get graded so quickly. If you factor in the shipping times from CGC to customer, customer sells it to next person, then customer shipsback to CGC... that has to take awhile. How did this book get graded so fast? Did someone pay for a walkthrough?

At that value, walk-thru is the only option

I'm dying to know their response. I'm trying to imagine a scenario where you will be happy by the outcome, and I'm not seeing one. Sorry brother, godspeed!

To late to make me happy about it.

I'll be happy if the buyer re-sells it and makes a nice healthy profit.

Smells like a set-up.

 

That's the 1st thing that crossed my mind.

??

Does two wrongs now make a right? I know 3 left turns do.

 

this makes me

 

So was the guy who resubmitted it a dealer or auction house?

 

At this point it's either conspiracy or incompetance. What would you feel more comfortable with? Is CGC planning a response to this? Your masses are listening....

 

Looking forward to Harshen's response. No idea what could be said though....

I will post a response once I get one.

Here it is with the PLOD to see its the same book

For those that followed this drama back in mid February, I have an update to the situation.

1st - For those that didn't - Here's a link and a quick re-cap:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7469082&fpart=1

- I sent in 2 books to CGC. One was a Journey into Mystery 83 that was previously graded 6.0 Universal by CGC

- It came back a 7.0 Restored - Top Edge Trimmed

- I called CGC and after much complaining, Harshen agreed to re-look at the book

- Harshen claimed everyone in the building with grading credibility looked at the book, and EVERYONE agreed it was trimmed. He couldn't find anyone to disagree.

- They did what they could to try and make it right, but since I sent the book in OUT of the slab, they couldn't do anything financially. Still I was satisfied with the resolution, because at least they made an attempt

So I sold the book restored, and the new owner re-subbed it, and here's what he got back....

Express submission was received 3/11

Marked shipped yesterday 3/27

5 day turn around took 13 business days

I don't think the mods are going to ban him for this, and they have that power, not us.

 

So, PL with no way for restitution, or overkill on the HoS...

 

 

 

 

-slym

Definitely PL not HoS. There are plenty of ways for restitution. Complete the deal, pay the difference between what he sells the book for and what Ed would have paid for it, make a charitable donation in an amount he and Ed agree to to an agreed upon charity, (I count 3 ways for restitution.)

Why bother at this point. With his attitude towards the situation shows me that he will add nothing to this community.

Easy - PL

Steve is easy to deal with. Bought a SA Spidey slab from me, and everything went smooth

I hope to deal again (thumbs u