Diamonddave

On 4/9/2022 at 6:02 PM, BanjerD said:

Just for clarification.  Was this transaction begun on these chat boards?

If memory serves, yes, he contacted me about the Zip 31 that I had posted here in a sales thread. 

On 4/9/2022 at 5:52 PM, Joshua33 said:

It looks like @Roger66 has acknowledged he feels somewhat morally responsible for the way things are, and wants to make it right. 

It additionally appears Roger thinks the ask ($2,800) given where things are currently, is too high. 

Realistically, and unfortunately, Roger could tell Dave to jam it, based on the absence of clarification. Roger, to me is demonstrating desire to make it right. 

Again, @Diamonddave could relay information here... is there anything else you would accept (aside form $2,800) to resolve this? 

That seems like a good starting point...

I've stated before, I had presented Roger with options for resolution. Nothing has come to fruition. 

On 4/9/2022 at 5:45 PM, crassus said:

Diamonddave has suggested that you had made some promises, given some assurances about the CV 4, that if it didn't grade out as expected you would make it right or fix it. Are you saying that he is mistaken about that?

I did not suggest, texts document his absolute confidence in the estimated grades.

On 4/9/2022 at 5:44 PM, Beige said:

Seller says 9.0

Buyer thinks 7.0

Buyer pays a 9.0 price

Things go south.

Who could foresee such an outcome....

 

If you knew it was a 7.0, why pay a 9.0 price?

Buyer beware and all that.

 

Walk away and learn from this.

And just not hold the other party to account and at their word as a member of this community? No thanks

On 4/9/2022 at 5:38 PM, JollyComics said:

It sounds fair and I had to point at Metro for a bad pressing service. @Diamonddave  Go talk with Metro about it.  They may make it right too.

Very insightful and helpful, thank you

On 4/9/2022 at 5:23 PM, JollyComics said:

Metropolis?  They offer the pressing service? 

They have in house pressing, yes. 

On 4/9/2022 at 5:21 PM, KCOComics said:

Is there a solution you would be satisfied with outside of the full $2800?? 

If he bought additional books? Or gave you additional books? Something in the middle? 

All of this has been discussed over the last 8 months, nothing has come of it. That is why I came here. This is a last resort.

On 4/9/2022 at 5:10 PM, KCOComics said:

It's a tough situation and I'm empathetic to Dave.  And truthfully, the 13 months doesn't concern me, because grading and working with auction houses take time. So the timing isn't shocking. 

But I do think the time to argue was when you received the books. At that point you have to review the books for yourself and either accept his grade or return them.

I hope you guys can meet in the middle somewhere.  

I did have misgivings before they were ever shipped, that is documented. What did I recieve were more assurances that I'd be happy with the trade and if not Roger would make it right. 

On 4/9/2022 at 5:08 PM, wombat said:

You lose me right here. You should have initiated a return right here. At the very least you should have agreed up front what the compensation would be for a lower grade. 

As you can see from the texts I did try to do that. 

On 4/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, Ryan. said:

What did you grade the book at?

Possiby a 7.0, I knew it wasn't a 9.0 but I had his reassurance didn't I? That he would make it right, that he would fix this. It's all documented. 

On 4/9/2022 at 5:01 PM, JollyComics said:

Who pressed your books?

Metro in house, I was there the entire time. 

On 4/9/2022 at 5:00 PM, JollyComics said:

And it's over 13 months.

Because I've been trying to have this resolved since Sept of 2021. 

On 4/9/2022 at 4:54 PM, Ryan. said:

Knowingly submitting a lesser grade book to then pursue a refund .

I did nothing of the sort. I asked Roger multiple time to confirm the grade before it was ever shipped.

On 4/9/2022 at 4:53 PM, Ryan. said:

At what point does a buyer take acceptance of a book and thus some accountability for its grade?

Not the question here, the issue is the fact that I was guaranteed satisfaction which has not been produced. 

On 4/9/2022 at 4:52 PM, Roger66 said:

David - I respectfully disagree.  I addressed this just now and I would ask anyone to moderate our disagreement by fully hearing each of us out.  Best, Roger

You all but guaranteed a vf/NM, did you not read the texts? Those are your words not mine. 

On 4/9/2022 at 4:51 PM, Ryan. said:

This was a difficult path to pursue. 

Holding someone to their word?

On 4/9/2022 at 4:49 PM, KCOComics said:

That's kind of where I am. If both parties thought the book was a 9.0, should Roger be held accountable for the CGC grade? 

After it changed hands multiple times? 

 

It did not change hands multiple times, it never left my sight until it went to CGC and it was not damaged in shipping or  GC would have said so.

On 4/9/2022 at 4:47 PM, Roger66 said:

Hello, 

Here is my initial response.  I never agreed to pay David $2,800.00 to recoup his stated loss here, however, I trust him that this is the dollar amount he believes will make him whole from what turned out to be a unbalanced trade that was in-fact concluded in February of 2021 - over 13 months ago. 

What truly concerns me in addition to the age of this trade and the late notices that followed (he 1st texted me about the CV4's post press & CGC grade in September - over 6 months after receipt of the book)  - was what followed on his end after he received my raw books, which I believe(d) were in fact the grades I gave them and which I assumed David agreed with upon his initial inspection prior to his submitting them and his sending off the CV4 for a press. 

What I don't like about this situation is that one book (the Baker) despite its' cover hanging on was in fact acknowledged as still hanging on when David received it and mailed it to CGC - thus it was damaged by a third party.  What I also don't like is that the CV4, which I believe David agreed with my grade-call despite any reservations - was how it was possibly pressed - yes it came back a low 6.0 but was it pressed badly (?) and damaged I have to earnestly wonder... here are the grader notes provided to me by David that stated "multiple tiny hole spine - wear spine."  I remember no tiny holes in the spine when I had it in hand - none. 

David then auctioned one or more of these books to recoup money at the end of 2021 and when he advised me of the final hammer prices - we both agreed that the prices seemed too low.  Regarding the Fighting Yank, which was a CGC graded book - I don't think it was cracked and graded on his end because if memory serves me correct I saw it on Superworld's site at a price less than we both initially valued it at at the start of the trade. 

I am sorry about how this trade turned out for David and I did offer to buy some of his existing raw comics at prices I would never ordinarily pay for them just to help him recoup some money but that did not work out because his asking prices were just too high for me.  I like David very much (I still do despite this) and our past history prior to this trade was stellar. If you don't know David - he is a wonderful individual.  I am more then willing to have a 3rd party on the Boards moderate this privately and see what his or her opinion is too.  There is more I can and will add but I will start with this - I did not misrepresent the raw grades (and I am sure David knows that) and 2 of my raw books may have in fact been damaged by a third party after they left David's hand. Is that my burden to bear? Thank you. 

Sincerely yours,

Roger 

You completely misrepresented them as evidenced in the texts and you know it.

On 4/9/2022 at 4:44 PM, Ryan. said:

So two people looked at a raw book, determined it was a 9.0, and after a press it came back a 6.0? Something is missing in this chain of events. Either the book was damaged in the press or other handling, or both parties are bad graders. 

No, I had reservations from the beginning, and I asked for reassurance from Roger66. He reassured me and said if it came back lower he would make it right. 

On 4/9/2022 at 4:38 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Any possibility that the book got damaged by metro or getting to metro

what was the estimate they gave or you gave
 

to me there is a big difference in grade from 9.0 to 6.0 that should have been caught prior 

regardless if there was an agreement it should be honored 

have you notified roger66 of this thread 

He has been notified and acknowledged.

There is no possibility of being damaged at Metro, I watched it through the entire process. Handed it to the presser myself.

On 4/9/2022 at 4:16 PM, wombat said:

Just seems like a horrible way to do a deal to be honest. Trying to guarantee grades and not having spelled out very specifically what the resolution would be if the grades were not as expected before hand. 

The book that graded 6.0. What did it look like in hand? Were you concerned before you sent it in?

There was some concern yes, even before they were sent I was concerned which is why I asked for and got reassurance. 

On 4/9/2022 at 4:20 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Following along, a 3rd party pressed the books, is that correct?

Only the Claire, in house at Metro. 

On 4/9/2022 at 3:56 PM, crassus said:

If you had handled it yourself raw, did you have no reservations about the possible outcome? Was he promising you a 9.0 after slabbing etc...or was he saying it was a 9.0 as it stood raw?

He was promising a 9.0 at the very least after slabbing, this is why I made sure to ask him for reassurance about the grade before he ever sent it, which I documented and he doubled-down on, also documented. 

On 4/9/2022 at 3:50 PM, crassus said:

Ok thanks, and as for  the  CV 4, which was supposed to be a 9.0....just so I make sure I understand, was it you or Roger66 who submitted it for  grading? i.e. did you ever see the book yourself first hand raw?

I submitted it raw, I trusted Roger at his word. 

On 4/9/2022 at 3:51 PM, Bird said:

By "we" do you mean the Roger66 and you?

I made my suggestion not out of concern for the price you got but because in a dispute about value you can go back to square one if all else fails, that's all.

 

So did he agree to $2800 and then just stop communicating?

Yes, Roger and I,  we've been communicating but nothing ever gets done. 

On 4/9/2022 at 3:44 PM, crassus said:

Hi, just to clarify, do you have a precise dollar amount that would make you whole? I gather from the narrative above, that it would be $3000, or have you both been negotiating this back and forth?

I have that I've talked with Roger66 many, many times about. That figure is $2800 or a combination of books and cash. Today's call, which absolutely pushed me over the edge, he offered to send me long boxes of Bronze age books.