Cat-Man_America

On 11/22/2023 at 8:37 PM, lou_fine said:

Yep, even with the noted visual defects on the CGC 5.5 as pointed out by a few boardies here, that is still a rather shocking price imbalance between the two copies. 

Especially when we’ve been so conditioned here that it’s always about the CGC grade, until it’s not I guess. 

There's not a lot that can be gleaned from this result beyond speculation on which variables might've affected the sale. Some may point to the label making a difference, others would point to the apparent condition of each copy (the 4.0 looking sharper than grade while the 5.5 looks more ragged and too much off the right edge). Also, the bidder dynamics might've changed over two days with additional collectors getting onboard for the latter auction ...perhaps looking for bargains... who weren't involved on the 16th (note: This point would've been moot if the books had been auctioned back to back). 

Is it about the CGC grade, how each book presents, the label, timing or something in the notes about each book's history?  ...Inquiring minds want to know! 

On 11/22/2023 at 10:29 PM, MasterChief said:

Yup...I’m still tracking Promise resales. Update should be out after the holiday. That said, asset liquidation has been mixed from a genre perspective over the last two months. Overall, sales continue in the downward trend. Remarkably, the time horizon on holding Promises has been relatively short so far. Take for example the Detective #146 mentioned. That book has resold twice since initial offering. Perhaps it has now reached a realistic FMV...

Really looking forward to this! Your analysis provides the most accurate assessment of the Promise Collection sales history, but also which titles have been least and most affected by market fluctuations.

MasterChief, we may have to wait awhile longer till your promotion gets through Congress, but you've earned our DOW Jones command!  

On 11/22/2023 at 9:08 AM, Bookery said:

I watched the TV Superman in the mid-60s on re-runs, but even as a kid by that point it seemed pretty hokey.  It was certainly never a substitute for the Legion of Super-Heroes flying around the galaxy, or the fascination I had at the time with the quirkier heroes like Metal Men, Metamorpho, Sea Devils (or even the Fat Fury!).  I watched "Batman" for laughs, but never confused it with the "real" (New Direction) Batman in the comics.  Horror is an interesting comic genre.  I really believe, were it not for the Code, horror would have become co-dominant with heroes in the '60s, as again it's a genre that TV wasn't allowed to do in anything other than very tame versions (compare "Twilight Zone" with the Hammer movies for example, or even with what was developing in the b&w magazines exempt from the code).

Just now getting back to this thread:

For Superman the B&W first season is best, with 26 episodes filmed (the second also had 26, with Noel Neill replacing Coates to reprise the role of Lois she had in the earlier Columbia serials). The first season was very edgy and gritty in a pulp kinda way with Phyllis Coates being a much more assertive Lois.

Some folks like the campier style of the later seasons. The last four seasons ...only 13 episode each... were filmed in color, but there's too many wink/grin episodes with a few good ones mixed in. The problem with the series is that the plots after the second B&W season (also 26 episodes) often devolved into simple cookie-cutter resolutions that would only please a very young demographic.

As for other comic based live action, I never cared for the campy Batman TV series in the mid-60's and could barely handle the spin-off Green Hornet, although appreciated Bruce Lee as a very formidable Kato.  British Hammer films were often quite good, but some of those are hit and miss as well.

Absolutely agree that only comics could pull off some of the wilder characters in the 60's. And I think comics would've done just fine without the CCA meddling to claw back some of excesses if given more time and the opportunity. The problem was too much government attention focused on what influenced young minds during a period of cold war paranoia. The conditions were just right to produce a perfect storm of repression.

skull to bones via unsolicited acid test...

On 11/20/2023 at 8:37 AM, Bookery said:

It's just a theory, but if one looks at the timeline, super-hero comics really didn't become the dominant genre of comics until the '60s and '70s.  I think the mass-arrival of television had a lot to do with that.  Once TV dominated every household, one could satisfy one's entertainment for most genres for free (tons of westerns, soap operas replacing romance comics, detective and crime stories aplenty, animated cartoons by the dozens, etc.).  The one genre that couldn't be done well on TV was super-heroes, due to budget and technological restraints.  So if you wanted your super-hero fix, comics were pretty much it.  When CGI changed all that, comic collecting initially boomed with the crossover interest from new mega-budget movies.  But now super-stuff in movies and TV is commonplace... there simply aren't enough hours in the week for one to watch all the stuff that is available to them, leaving out the video game market on top of that.  It will be interesting to see if comics still hold fascination in super-heroes, now that there is literally no genre that can't be produced for live-action mediums.

I'm not sure that I agree with your theory, but I see the logic of it and it's an entirely reasonable POV. Nevertheless, from my analytical perspective of the era superheroes were a dominent genre in mid-1939 till the end of WWII, not that there wasn't a lot of variety in other comic book genres including detective, western, comedy, teen humor and funny animal (cartoons that either originated from or translated to other media).

Can't agree that comics were "pretty much it" for a super-hero fix because it couldn't be achieved on TV in the 50's. To preface this, keep in mind that the Max Fleischer Superman cartoons were popular in theaters in the 40's and there were a number of popular live action serials in the 40's and early 50's with comic hero characters that let kids to get their Saturday fix. Serial chapters also transferred to TV in the 50's and a lot more exciting than the boring industrial documentaries that were often used as space fillers in lieu of syndicated reruns, regional or local programming.

TV reached most living rooms between 1948 and 1955 (I would've said reached its zenith by '55, but there were other TV brands).  

George Reeves starring in The Adventures of Superman was very successful from 1951 through '57 (in color by '54), with outstanding FX for the time though clearly on a tight budget. What changed was that superheroes ...with about a half dozen exceptions... were almost a dead genre between the end of the war and late 1950's; these exceptions hung on while crime, horror, romance, western and science fiction dominated comic market readership until public outrage and the CCA almost wiped comics out completely.

You're right about the limitless scope of live-action now, but genre fiction only thrives if the storytelling is convincing and not so reliant on action FX that it interferes with telling a good story. The fascination with "comics" as an all encompassing genre will continue into the foreseeable future as collecting is trans-generational. And my prediction is that super-heroes will survive in other mediums that aren't dependent upon regularly published comics.

The $64,000 question ...for those who can still make a connection with that period reference... will be which type of heroic character stories survive longer, Homer's Iliad & Odyssey or Simpson. 

My one Canadian Edition Marvel Mystery...

On 11/19/2023 at 1:36 PM, Yorick said:

I think those last comparisons are great for providing an example as to a potential "why" for collectors not seeking them as actively (or paying as much).  Look at those cover inks.  The Canadian printing techniques are often not quite on par with the US counterpart books. Misaligned color plates, poorer inks, etc.  Of course, these same printing problems happen with US comics, but I personally don't see it as often as the Canadian comics.  I think "Fifties" post above (from 2017!!) is pretty much spot-on.  And in this current age of slabbing, the cover appearance is vital.  For me, I am happy to go seek out rarer versions of books at lower prices.  

Honestly, I don't think that the printing quality can be faulted too much with Canadian editions, certainly not the occasional misalignment of color plates. There are just too many examples of out of register U.S. produced comics from the GA era to judge. Poorer quality inks? Perhaps, but without knowing the specifics of the brands or types of printers inks each press employed it's hard to gauge from a book to book color strike. If different color choices were employed in Canadian variants, that would certainly factor in to value fluctuations. If the dialogue changed in the stories, that would also be a consideration to evaluate.  Different ads in Canadian editions shouldn't be a factor in values, but certainly of interest due to the variation. The one element which definitely could and should account for how collectors gauge values is story content. Obviously a 52 page comic contains 16 more pages of story content than a 36 page comic. What would be interesting to see listed on the Canadian reissue's grading label is what's actually missing from the U.S. edition, but alas, that kind of information to my knowledge has never been noted.

My long-winded two cents (caffeine added!)  

Green suit and dead men coming out of ground to green suit and dead man going to the ground...

On 10/19/2023 at 11:22 PM, JQ Comics said:

Anyone ever see Alex Schomburg’s very first and second work? He was only 20 years old in 1925

Awesome! Pre-Amazing Stories and strong work! Alex was turning out first rate cover work for Gernsback prior to Frank R. Paul's noteworthy tenure as exclusive cover artist for Hugo's legendary SF title.

Clearly Alex was a dependable workhorse early-on for publishers; he could always be counted on for first rate art on deadline, including interiors when called upon. We're just scratching the surface here. Alex's accomplishments ...illustration & painting... in pulps, Comics, digests and Hardcover dust-jackets and other projects from the mid-20s through the 1980's is worth exploring.  

Looking forward to an even broader examination of Alex's wide ranging artistic achievements as this thread progresses! 

On 11/15/2023 at 8:12 PM, MrBedrock said:

Why so prejudiced against the alien tourist cover? 

Seriously though, I think of Whiz as a very big title, yet 141 is the only issue of the entire run that has no sales data at all. Just surprised me a little bit.

Plus those two copies on the census must be the Crowley copies.

I don't know about Whiz, but an alien tourist fad might have legs! 

On 11/15/2023 at 7:16 PM, Robot Man said:

Are Lloyd Jacquette file copies considered a pedigree? Looks like some bored office worker got “creative” on #3…

#2 is a cool one. Reminds me of CDNP #24. 

Lloyd Jacquette copies haven't to my knowledge been given an official pedigree status, but they're important in publishing history as recognized FILE copies.

In the case of my Jacquette dated & stamped copy it's classified as "From the estate of..."

On 9/27/2020 at 9:41 AM, circumstances said:

9 on the census

 

 

Haven't posted to this wild and combat intensive thread in awhile, but there are some drop dead gorgeous WWII books posted throughout so I'll open my bombastic bomb-bay doors and drop a few lovely scans into the fray here and there, starting with my copy of this Stormy entry...

Atlas to Hercules...

On 11/13/2023 at 3:35 AM, ChillMan said:

Dropped mics is thinking ahead.  But everyone already knows about stage worn items.  And pulps...unless it's an extremely underrated character.

I'm talking about predicting what no one talks about now...but should be.

It depends on the specifics. For instance, a Taylor Swift "first down" football jersey might bring even more than stage worn apparel.  

Okay, how about pre-apocalypse political campaign buttons and memorabilia? 

10 to 40 years is difficult to predict in the $1M to $20M range, but some comics other than the usual suspects might achieve it. Pulps will probably increase in value exponentially over the next 10 years (especially with third party grading) ...not into the multi-million dollar range though.  That said, unique cover art associated with an energized pulp market by well known artists (beyond GGA and horror covers) has possibilities.

GA Comics will continue to expand in value especially easier to obtain lines only given marginal interest now.  Some characters may start sharing first appearance importance of Superman and Batman rarified values, but only those with strong media tie-in interest if that media interest is ever generated. Stage costumes worn by pop stars may reach that $1M to $20M if sufficient interest is generated by younger fans. Rare guitars and stage played instruments is already a popular commodity ...even dropped mics (lol) might become a hot item.

Elon Musk memorabilia has potential (X marks the spot), but I predict collectable red gimme caps will drop off dramatically, ...into landfills. 

red hood to purple hoods...

On 11/7/2023 at 12:12 PM, MrBedrock said:

Saw this Marvelous array at the Dallas Summit, discussed the kewl presentation with West Stephan and Matt Nelson; briefly chatted with Mark Haspel there too.

This was almost as impressive was MrBedrock's wall. Note: My only regret was not having the forethought to strategically pose with a long box of MrB's comics ...a'la the infamous Rifleman cover!  

Axanar Confidential celebrity comic expert interview...

Never intentionally bought a brittle or tan book, ...and cream is iffy.  

Purple and green women to purple people and green clothed couple...

On 11/9/2023 at 9:50 AM, Robot Man said:

Frankly, it makes zero sense to put out a printed “price guide” any more. The market for comics is a real roller coaster especially if the past few years. The pulp market is even worse. Dealers and collectors have been smelling blood in the waters ever since CGC announced the plans to grade them. No one knows where the market will eventually end up. At the moment the sky seems to be the limit. Folks are grabbing everything they can with zero knowledge of what they are buying.

I look at the Overstreet and Bookery guides as informational tools and ignore the prices. They are both the best factual tools available for artist and writers and dating. Invaluable for collectors.

Pulps have ALWAYS been the great unknown. Most have been closely guarded secrets by collectors. MUCH more rare than comics. I have “accumulated” them for 40 years and am constantly suprised by amazing cover finds. Will they ever be worth what comics are? I don’t believe so but a fun challenge to hunt down!

Now, if someone were to do a “Gerber” book of covers…

Agree completely on a Gerber-style Book of Pulp covers; m'thinks it would be a Herculean task, but well rewarded.  That said, a major paper-based Guide is probably needed every so often as a basis for ball-park pricing given the rapid increase in values in recent years; this is far from "zero sense" in my estimation and less of an unknown now than a few years ago.

Published paper Guides provide a tangible reference source that both collectors and dealers can go to quickly and rely upon for basic values and pricing estimates. IMO, pulp prices haven't been on a roller coaster, they've been on a multi-stage rocket ascent. While values may level off at some point, pulps will likely achieve a low orbit and remain there, eventually sharing popularity with GA comics where cover art has always been king.

gripping a victim to Amazon Prime escort service...