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Succesful transactions with everyone below...judgement withheld on hammer's book pending consultation with my advisor! all4comics araich awe4one Blazing Bob blowout Bluecollarjoe Bonds25 bronty bronzebruce bugaboo - I'm the only one?? cd4ever chrisco37 chromium clobberintime comicdave darthdiesel delekkerste fantasticfour FlyingDonut gman greggy hammer Hogations ideal808 JLA_all_the_way Johnny Double jordanabigail Kevthemev Lantern lighthouse loisandclark majorkhaos Mushroom musicmeta nochips oldguy povertyrow realitytrip RipVanSleep Rob_react speedjunkies sullypython the beyonder tkg2627 ubiquiti

Can I just say that people being shocked that this book has bids bothers me? It's an X-Men 1! It IS valuable even in PR and it has absolutely nothing to do with the CGC holder. I think the book looks great for the price...hhmm...I think it does anyways? I've had worse! If the rest of the book is high grade, then you have a nice set of pages, a nice back cover, and with a little help this book could be sold via a private ebay auction as a very high grade copy! Wonder how much the pages would sell for alone??

I am assuming with your stated amount of $5k you are relatively financially secure and have other investments? I would not tell someone with $5000 and that is all to blow it all on comics - you should only invest as much as you are willing to lose is a good phrase to go by. The whole premise of the post is that someone has $5k to invest in comics. The question was not "What would you recommend investing $5k in?", or "Should I invest $5k in comic books?" Unfortunately, it took Gene less than 10 minutes from the posting of the question to get on his soapbox about the viability of comic books as an investment vehicle! I mean c'mon, what fun is that!?!? It's deja vu man...all over again...

Six of one, half a dozen of the other...you say there will be less demand due to the prices, I say they will be too expensive to be in demand. However, I have no doubt that comics will always be desirable due to their historical significance, sense of nostalgia, and the good ole collectability of Americana, even if comic books (as we know them) are no longer produced. Our positions are coming from different angles, but intersect at the point of comic books currently being too expensive to expect valuation increase of the last 10 years in the next 10. However, I don't see that really stopping us from continuing to build our collections! I wasn't around when Golden Age comics were produced, but I sure like to collect 'em (and many others do as well). This is a position that many here don't seem to accept, and your response alludes to this position - that the only books people collect are the books they read when they were 8-10-12 years old. I'm sure this is true of a lot of collectors (and is where I started out), but there are plenty of collectors whose collecting interests expand beyond the "comics of their youth".

What's with all the nit-pickers critiquing the question without even bothering to answer it?? I agree with a few of the folks above that high grade (NM or better, raw or not) books in the $50-$500 range would be the best set of books to "invest" in. Adams and Steranko late 60's/early 70's books, semi-keys like the Spideys mentioned above (119, 120, 136), etc.,. Stay mainstream, and avoid anything published after 1980 (except for keys). To comment on another point Clobby mentioned, while I love comic books and hope the market is viable 10/20/30 years from now, I simply think that the pool of collectors that can purchase the best books is much, much, much smaller now than it was 10 years ago, and comics have just about priced themselves out of the reach of most collectors. I don't necessarily buy the argument of many on this board that gold/silver/bronze age comics won't be wanted by collectors in 30 years (due to changing demographics of the collector base), but I do believe they are becoming too expensive to be collected on a widespread basis. For example, three or four years ago there were many more collectors that could swing the $800-1k needed to pick up a high grade Hulk 181 than there are now that can afford a 9.4+. Glass ceiling anyone???

anyone know which was the first Marvel horror title? If you mean the 1st bronze age Marvel horror title from the list above, it's Tower of Shadows (9/69), but Marvel Tales #93 (the first horror issue after the name switch in the Marvel Mystery title) came out in 8/49. Not sure if that was the 1st Marvel/Timely horror issue overall, but I can't think of any others...

Don't hold me to it, but here's what I believe to be the complete list of titles Marvel produced between 1970 and 1980, including the start and end dates. There are some magazine titles, treasuries, etc.,. included...enjoy! (If anyone bothers to "pretty up" the table, please send it to me and I'll replace the list below...you should be able to cut/paste it into Excel since that's where it came from.) Title/Start Date/End Date 2001: A Space Odyssey 1976 1977 Adventures into Fear 1972 1975 Adventures on the Planet of the Apes 1975 1976 Amazing Adventures 1970 1976 Amazing Spider-Man Annual, The 1964 1994 Arrgh! 1974 1975 Astonishing Tales 1970 1976 Avengers Annual 1967 1994 Avengers, The 1963 1996 Battlestar Galactica 1979 1981 Beware 1973 1974 Black Goliath 1976 1976 Black Panther 1977 1979 Captain America 1968 1996 Captain America Annual 1971 1994 Captain Britain 1976 1977 Captain Marvel 1968 1979 Captain Savage 1968 1970 Cat, The 1972 1973 Chamber of Chills 1972 1976 Chamber of Darkness 1969 1970 Champions, The 1975 1978 Chili 1969 1973 Chili Annual 1971 1971 Combat Kelly and the Deadly Dozen 1972 1973 Conan Annual 1973 1987 Conan the Barbarian 1970 1993 Crazy 1973 1973 Creatures on the Loose 1971 1975 Crypt Of Shadows 1973 1975 Daredevil 1964 1998 Daredevil Annual 1967 9999 Dead of Night 1973 1975 Deadly Hands of Kung Fu Special 1974 1974 Deadly Hands of Kung Fu, The 1974 1977 Defenders Annual, The 1976 1976 Defenders, The 1972 1986 Devil Dinosaur 1978 1978 Doc Savage 1972 1974 Doctor Strange 1974 1987 Dr. Strange Annual 1976 1976 Dracula Lives 1973 1975 Dracula Lives Annual 1975 1975 Dynomutt 1977 1979 Eternals Annual, The 1977 1977 Eternals, The 1976 1978 Fantastic Four 1961 1996 Fantastic Four Annual 1963 1994 Fear 1970 1975 Flintstones 1977 1979 Francis, Brother of the Universe 1980 1980 Frankenstein 1973 1975 Ghost Rider 1973 1983 Giant-Size Avengers 1974 1975 Giant-Size Captain America 1975 1975 Giant-Size Captain Marvel 1975 1975 Giant-Size Chillers 1974 1974 Giant-Size Chillers 1975 1975 Giant-Size Conan 1974 1975 Giant-Size Creatures 1974 1974 Giant-Size Daredevil 1975 1975 Giant-Size Defenders 1974 1975 Giant-Size Doc Savage 1975 1975 Giant-Size Doctor Strange 1975 1975 Giant-Size Dracula 1974 1975 Giant-Size Fantastic Four 1974 1975 Giant-Size Hulk 1975 1975 Giant-Size Invaders 1975 1975 Giant-Size Iron Man 1975 1975 Giant-Size Kid Colt 1975 1975 Giant-Size Man-Thing 1974 1975 Giant-Size Marvel Triple Action 1975 1975 Giant-Size Master of Kung Fu 1974 1975 Giant-Size Power Man 1975 1975 Giant-Size Spider-Man 1974 1975 Giant-Size Super-Heroes 1974 1974 Giant-Size Super-Stars 1974 1974 Giant-Size Super-Villain Team-Up 1975 1975 Giant-Size Thor 1975 1975 Giant-Size Werewolf 1974 1975 Giant-Size X-Men 1975 1975 Godzilla 1977 1979 Gunhawks, The 1972 1973 Gunslinger 1973 1973 Harvey 1970 1972 Haunt of Horror 1974 1975 Hero For Hire 1972 1973 Homer, The Happy Ghost 1969 1970 Howard the Duck 1976 1979 Howard the Duck Annual 1977 1977 Hulk 1978 1981 Human Fly 1977 1979 Human Torch, The 1974 1975 Incredible Hulk Annual, The 1976 1992 Incredible Hulk Special, The 1968 1972 Incredible Hulk, The 1968 1999 Inhumans, The 1975 1977 Invaders Annual, The 1977 1977 Invaders, The 1975 1979 Iron Fist 1975 1977 Iron Man 1968 1996 Iron Man Annual 1977 1991 Iron Man Special 1970 1971 Island Of Dr. Moreau 1977 1977 John Carter Warlord of Mars 1977 1979 Journey Into Mystery 1972 1975 Jungle Action 1972 1976 Ka-Zar 1970 1971 Ka-Zar 1974 1977 Kid Colt Outlaw 1948 1979 Kull and the Barbarians 1975 1975 Kull the Conqueror 1971 1973 Kull the Destroyer 1973 1978 Laff-A-Lympics 1978 1979 Legion of Monsters 1975 1975 Li'l Kids 1970 1970 Li'l Pals 1972 1973 Logan's Run 1977 1977 Machine Man 1978 1981 Mad About Millie 1969 1970 Mad About Millie Annual 1971 1971 Man Called Nova, The 1978 1979 Man From Atlantis 1978 1978 Man-Thing 1974 1975 Marvel Adventure 1976 1976 Marvel Adventures 1975 1976 Marvel Chillers 1975 1976 Marvel Classics Comics 1976 1978 Marvel Comics Super Special 1977 1986 Marvel Double Feature 1973 1977 Marvel Feature 1971 1973 Marvel Feature 1975 1976 Marvel Movie Premiere 1975 1975 Marvel Premiere 1972 1981 Marvel Presents 1975 1977 Marvel Preview 1975 1980 Marvel Special Edition 1975 1977 Marvel Spectacular 1973 1975 Marvel Spotlight 1971 1977 Marvel Spotlight 1979 1981 Marvel Super Action 1976 1976 Marvel Super Special Magazine 1979 1979 Marvel Super-Heroes 1967 1982 Marvel Tales 1966 1994 Marvel Team-Up 1972 1985 Marvel Team-Up Annual 1976 1984 Marvel Triple Action 1972 1979 Marvel Two-In-One 1974 1983 Marvel Two-In-One Annual 1976 1982 Marvel's Greatest Comics 1969 1981 Master of Kung Fu 1974 1983 Master of Kung Fu Annual 1976 1976 Masters of Terror 1975 1975 Micronauts 1979 1984 Micronauts Annual 1979 1980 Mighty Marvel Western, The 1968 1976 Millie the Model 1945 #VALUE! Millie the Model Annual 1962 1975 Monsters on the Prowl 1971 1974 Monsters Unleashed 1973 1975 Monsters Unleashed Annual 1975 1975 Moon Knight 1980 1984 Ms. Marvel 1977 1979 My Love 1969 1976 My Love Special 1971 1971 Nick Fury and His Agents of SHIELD 1968 1971 Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD 1973 1973 Night Nurse 1972 1973 Night Rider 1974 1975 Nova 1976 1978 Omega the Unknown 1976 1977 Our Love Story 1969 1976 Outlaw Kid, The 1970 1975 Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man 1976 1998 Peter The Little Pest 1969 1970 Planet of the Apes 1974 1977 Power Man 1974 1978 Power Man and Iron Fist 1978 1986 Power Man Annual 1976 1976 Rawhide Kid 1960 1979 Rawhide Kid Special 1971 1971 Red Sonja 1977 1979 Red Wolf 1972 1973 Ringo Kid, The 1970 1976 ROM 1979 1996 Savage She-Hulk, The 1980 1982 Savage Sword of Conan, The 1974 1977 Savage Tales 1971 1975 Savage Tales Annual 1975 1975 Scooby Doo 1977 1979 Sgt. Fury 1963 1974 Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos 1974 1981 Sgt. Fury Annual 1965 1971 Shanna the She-Devil 1972 1973 Shield 1973 1973 Shogun Warriors 1979 1980 Silver Surfer, The 1968 1970 Skull the Slayer 1975 1976 Son of Satan 1975 1977 Special Collectors' Edition 1975 1975 Special Edition: Spider-Man and the Hulk 1980 1980 Special Marvel Edition 1971 1974 Spectacular Spider-Man Annual, The 1979 1994 Spectacular Spider-Man, The 1976 1998 Spider-Woman 1978 1983 Spidey Super Stories 1974 1982 Spoof 1970 1973 Spotlight 1978 1979 Star Trek 1980 1982 Star Wars 1977 1986 Star Wars Annual 1979 1983 Strange Tales 1973 1976 Sub-Mariner 1968 1974 Sub-Mariner Annual 1971 1972 Super Spider-Man 1976 1977 Supernatural Thrillers 1975 1980 Super-Villain Team-Up 1972 1975 Tales of the Zombie 1973 1975 Tales of the Zombie Annual 1975 1975 Tales to Astonish 1979 1981 Tarzan 1977 1979 Tarzan Annual 1977 1979 Tex Dawson, Gunslinger 1973 1973 Thor 1966 1996 Thor Annual 1966 ?? Tomb Of Darkness 1974 1976 Tomb Of Dracula 1972 1979 Tower of Shadows 1969 1971 Tower of Shadows [special] 1971 1971 Tv Stars 1978 1979 Uncanny Tales 1973 1975 Unknown Worlds Of Science Fiction 1975 1975 Unknown Worlds Of Science Fiction Giant Size Special 1976 1976 Vampire Tales 1973 1976 Vampire Tales Annual 1975 1975 Vault Of Evil 1973 1975 War Is Hell 1973 1975 Warlock 1972 1976 Weird Wonder Tales 1973 1977 Werewolf By Night 1972 1977 Western Gunfighters 1970 1975 Western Kid 1971 1972 Western Team-Up 1973 1973 What If? 1977 1984 Where Creatures Roam 1970 1971 Where Monsters Dwell 1970 1975 Worlds Unknown 1973 1974 Wyatt Earp 1972 1973 X-Men 1963 1981 X-Men Annual 1970 ?? Yogi Bear 1977 1979

SAGA OF THE SWAMP THING, DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, NEW TEEN TITANS, AMERICAN FLAGG, Simonson's THOR, Miller's DAREDEVIL, WATCHMEN, NEXUS, ELEKTRA: ASSASSIN, THE ROCKETEER, LOVE & ROCKETS, MAUS. Those are some examples I would cite of good Bronze Age comics. C'mon Dave, gimme a break! When shown the list above and the following list: Conan, Marvel Team-Up, Marvel Two-in-One, Defenders, Tomb of Dracula, Ghost Rider, and Iron Fist and asked which list constitutes Bronze Age Comics, 99 out of 100 comic book collectors and dealers in the United States would pick the latter. With the one picking the former being you...

(to steal a post) Hmmm, I believe intellectual property belongs to the originator of the idea, so technically, in this case it's not stealing. Flattering yourself would be a better description...

Easter?? I thought the fools came out on 4/1 - beware!!

The X-mas Day Massacre has become a legend...or is it an "urban legend"? If you saved the thread or if anyone has the juicy details, PM me as I wasn't around! And why has no one mentioned Jens alter-ego thread(s)...those were totally bizarro.

I would (and Overstreet does) suggest storing them upright. You're putting an awful lot of stress on the staple area as you have them since the interior might want to "fall" down, pulling away from the staples. I wouldn't have them too tight as that causes damage taking the books in and out of the stack. Do you have the Ewoks run? No SW collection is complete without 'em!!

I'll never understand why people don't SUPER SIZE pictures in their auctions. No doubt, and frankly, ebay's "Super Size" is more like regular fries. Like Hammer said, you need at least a "comic book sized" scan to have any idea what the book looks like. Ebay's super size might show some defects on a G, VG, or even Fine book, but they're not big enough to distinguish between a 9.0/9.2/9.4, etc.,. Aren't they something like $0.75 per auction? For less than $5 a month, you can get more webspace than you would need to run 50-60 auctions simultaneously, with HUGE scans. Oh well, they make it easy, and that makes it sucessful I guess??

If there are any tax/business people here, please define this more clearly. Or not...

Rule of 7, Rule of 72...see, what do I know?

Sounds like Greggy covered the preservation supply angle pretty well. As far as investment return, the "Rule of 7" is a common phrase, and basically means that if you can get 7% return on your investment over a period of 10 years, you've doubled your money. The last two-three years stocks lost money, but in the mid-late 90's average yearly returns of 15-20% on some of the larger mutual funds were common. When I first contributed to my 401k account about 10 years ago, there was a "guaranteed" fund (cash, bonds I imagine) that had a yield of over 8% for a couple years. A final bit of advice on the investment front is that historically, incumbent administrations strive to improve the economic outlook in their 3rd year in order to help in their re-election bids. Look at Bush's tax plan - he's reintroducing massive federal budget deficits in order to jump start the economy this year...they'll have to be paid off sooner or later! Not that I know anything about financial markets...

Apparently CI PM'ed Bruce and said backing boards were in use in the 73-74 timeframe, but I didn't see any ads for them in OS 6 or 7. Yes, a review of old OS's is in order to determine when they were being advertised!! I was also out of the comic collecting hobby from about '82 to '86, and in '86 when I returned I was using Mylars on my expensive books. I wasn't really old enough in the 70's to remember using boards, and most of the bags I used either came from books I bought at shows/mail order, or my paper route paper bags.

Thanks for the input greggy, good stuff! is there tons of CGC level NM/NM+ or better? No one knows the answer to this, or how many books were stored in bags upon receipt, how many were left unread, or when bags/boards were first commonly used. We only have qualitative discussions of the factors that would play into answering the question, a few real-world examples, and some facts based on what was advertised in Overstreet. It's obvious that the advent of the Direct Market and the availability of the Overstreet price guide had a big effect on the number of surviving/available NM copies. Donut thinks Overstreet #6 was the first issue with wide circulation, so by 1975 the back issue comic book market was alive and kicking, people were aware that old comic books were valuable, and collectors were informed as to how to take care of their books. Also, within 3-4 years of publication, Hulk 181 was identified as a "key" book and the "new" X-men were taking off. 1974 is definitely a tweener year...unless I'm mistaken books were 20-cents in January, and 25-cents by December? Don't get me wrong here, I think Hulk 181 is a great book that's on everbody's want list, and I'm the last person that should criticize anyone for spending too much (over market prices) on a comic book they really want as I do it all the time. But for investment purposes, IMHO the "hoarder" got in while the getting was good, and if buying a 9.6 white will cost you 4k right now (and many here seem to think it would be a good "investment"), it would have to be going for around 8k in 10 years to keep up with a relatively conservative investment portfolio, and around 10k to be ahead of the game. There simply are not many people in this country that can afford to spend ten thousand dollars on a comic book... All that said, anyone have a VF/VF+ Hulk 181 available for sale/trade (and I'm not kidding)??

The problem with storing books in stacks is unless every other book is flipped (or 50% are flipped) or the stack is kept nice and neat, you end up with "curved" spines as the books are thicker along the spine. Also, dust shadows and weird bends/curves end up on books that are slightly off-set in a stack. A friend of the family has a collection of books from the mid-60's that he bought off the stands and took good care of. About 6-7 years ago he showed them to me - no boards, no bags, NM looking books but many of them had these defects. I brought him 2 long boxes and 500 boards/bags the next week! As his daughter is a senior in HS this year, I'm hoping to bring this collection to the market this summer or fall! Those early Overstreets (6-7-8) also have advertisements for comic boxes, and even VPD (Vapor Phase Deacidification) paper. I don't have Overstreets 1-5, but would be curious what kinds of articles/ads they had for preservation supplies??? I believe the "debate" you are referring to had to do with CI's claim that since the market was down, he couldn't find the books he was looking for anymore. My point was that the high CGC prices had already brought the "available" books to the market. By "available", I mean those books in the collections of "active" collectors and dealers that sell on-line, know what CGC is, and are willing to sell. Me and Greggy are perfect examples of this phenomena with regards to selling, and the "friend of the family" is a perfect example of an inactive collector with great books but who probably has never heard of CGC. I have no doubt that there are tons of undiscovered books from the late 60's to present out there - and since the inception of this forum my view has changed towards thinking there are more, rather than less. Finally, from my personal experience in trying to find books for myself (and buying pieces/parts of 4-5 original owner collections of late silver/early bronze), there's a huge difference in trying to get NM copies of books from 1970-1973 as opposed to 1974 and later. I'll buy just about any 20-cent NM Marvel at full guide...anyone got any for sale??

The 1976-1977 Overstreet price guide (No. 6) has a section on storing and preserving comics that specifically mentions the use of bags, and even mentions using mylar! The back cover has an ad for "Clear Plastic Comic Bags" from Robert Bell - I still see these occasionally and they're hard to miss since they have his name written all over them. I also remember going to the Book Gallery in G-ville (downtown by the library) in the mid-70's where I bought back issues for 10-cents, and there were books in bags behind the counter on a special display shelf. If only I'd bought that Hulk #6!!! Overstreet Price Guide #6 is also the 1st guide that X-men 94 showed up in, and it was identified as "New X-men begin". Hulk 181 wasn't broken out until the 1978-1979 guide. The stack of Spideys Ted showed us came out about a year after Hulk 181, so there was obviously hoarding going on at that time. The 9.6 Ghost Rider I sold you came to me in an unbagged/unboarded stack (as do all the books from that collection), and many of them have garnered 9.6 and 9.8's, so a bag/board aren't necessarily needed to keep these puppies brand-new looking. I know for a fact a raw "NM" copy, as well as a CGC 9.2 and 9.4, came out of the same collection, so there's another hoarder...

Looking at a 10 year investment horizon, accounting for inflation and an expected "average" return of a traditional investment portfolio, a 9.4 that costs about 2k now would need to be worth about 5-6k to make it a better investment than stocks/bonds/cash. How many people on this board have ever spent 5k on a comic book? How many people period? How about $50? How about $500? I think we need a poll!

The last couple of 9.4's on ebay brought $2,000-2,300, which is slightly higher than they were going for 6 months ago. However, Murph picked up a great looking copy from Heritage for under $1,850 last weekend, so I'd say prices have leveled off on this book, and seriously doubt it will be a 10k book in 10 years, or a 5k book in 5 years for that matter. 9.6's and 9.8's maybe, but I suspect there will be more 9.4's coming to the market than there is demand for them at 2-3k. I mean, rarely a week goes by that there's not a 9.4 (and multiple 9.2's and 9.0's) on ebay. Huge demand, but also a (relatively) huge supply. To compare the price increases for this book to those for early Silver Age is not really even comparing apples to oranges...I think we'll have a good idea of the future of this one by this summer, after the X-men 2 craze hits.

Yes - all the rumors I've heard are that he's either staying or leaving! Apparently he asked Spurrier last year if the 'skins would draft him if he came out, and Stevie said he couldn't guarantee it. He's probably the best QB Spurrier ever had at UF with regards to his arm strength and NFL-potential. Wuerffel was the smartest at calling audibles and could make all the throws under 50-yards...

If only...next year we'll (Gatorskins) will be better. I think it's become obvious that Ramsey will be the starting QB the rest of the way, and next year.

Rex? Nothing happened to him...but something did happen to our OC!