drbanner

I'll never understand why people don't SUPER SIZE pictures in their auctions.

No doubt, and frankly, ebay's "Super Size" is more like regular fries. Like Hammer said, you need at least a "comic book sized" scan to have any idea what the book looks like. Ebay's super size might show some defects on a G, VG, or even Fine book, but they're not big enough to distinguish between a 9.0/9.2/9.4, etc.,. Aren't they something like $0.75 per auction? For less than $5 a month, you can get more webspace than you would need to run 50-60 auctions simultaneously, with HUGE scans. Oh well, they make it easy, and that makes it sucessful I guess??

If there are any tax/business people here, please define this more clearly.

Or not...

Rule of 7, Rule of 72...see, what do I know?

Sounds like Greggy covered the preservation supply angle pretty well.

As far as investment return, the "Rule of 7" is a common phrase, and basically means that if you can get 7% return on your investment over a period of 10 years, you've doubled your money. The last two-three years stocks lost money, but in the mid-late 90's average yearly returns of 15-20% on some of the larger mutual funds were common. When I first contributed to my 401k account about 10 years ago, there was a "guaranteed" fund (cash, bonds I imagine) that had a yield of over 8% for a couple years. A final bit of advice on the investment front is that historically, incumbent administrations strive to improve the economic outlook in their 3rd year in order to help in their re-election bids. Look at Bush's tax plan - he's reintroducing massive federal budget deficits in order to jump start the economy this year...they'll have to be paid off sooner or later! Not that I know anything about financial markets...

Apparently CI PM'ed Bruce and said backing boards were in use in the 73-74 timeframe, but I didn't see any ads for them in OS 6 or 7. Yes, a review of old OS's is in order to determine when they were being advertised!!

I was also out of the comic collecting hobby from about '82 to '86, and in '86 when I returned I was using Mylars on my expensive books. I wasn't really old enough in the 70's to remember using boards, and most of the bags I used either came from books I bought at shows/mail order, or my paper route paper bags.

Thanks for the input greggy, good stuff!

is there tons of CGC level NM/NM+ or better?

No one knows the answer to this, or how many books were stored in bags upon receipt, how many were left unread, or when bags/boards were first commonly used. We only have qualitative discussions of the factors that would play into answering the question, a few real-world examples, and some facts based on what was advertised in Overstreet.

It's obvious that the advent of the Direct Market and the availability of the Overstreet price guide had a big effect on the number of surviving/available NM copies. Donut thinks Overstreet #6 was the first issue with wide circulation, so by 1975 the back issue comic book market was alive and kicking, people were aware that old comic books were valuable, and collectors were informed as to how to take care of their books. Also, within 3-4 years of publication, Hulk 181 was identified as a "key" book and the "new" X-men were taking off. 1974 is definitely a tweener year...unless I'm mistaken books were 20-cents in January, and 25-cents by December?

Don't get me wrong here, I think Hulk 181 is a great book that's on everbody's want list, and I'm the last person that should criticize anyone for spending too much (over market prices) on a comic book they really want as I do it all the time. But for investment purposes, IMHO the "hoarder" got in while the getting was good, and if buying a 9.6 white will cost you 4k right now (and many here seem to think it would be a good "investment"), it would have to be going for around 8k in 10 years to keep up with a relatively conservative investment portfolio, and around 10k to be ahead of the game. There simply are not many people in this country that can afford to spend ten thousand dollars on a comic book...

All that said, anyone have a VF/VF+ Hulk 181 available for sale/trade (and I'm not kidding)??

The problem with storing books in stacks is unless every other book is flipped (or 50% are flipped) or the stack is kept nice and neat, you end up with "curved" spines as the books are thicker along the spine. Also, dust shadows and weird bends/curves end up on books that are slightly off-set in a stack. A friend of the family has a collection of books from the mid-60's that he bought off the stands and took good care of. About 6-7 years ago he showed them to me - no boards, no bags, NM looking books but many of them had these defects. I brought him 2 long boxes and 500 boards/bags the next week! As his daughter is a senior in HS this year, I'm hoping to bring this collection to the market this summer or fall!

Those early Overstreets (6-7-8) also have advertisements for comic boxes, and even VPD (Vapor Phase Deacidification) paper. I don't have Overstreets 1-5, but would be curious what kinds of articles/ads they had for preservation supplies???

I believe the "debate" you are referring to had to do with CI's claim that since the market was down, he couldn't find the books he was looking for anymore. My point was that the high CGC prices had already brought the "available" books to the market. By "available", I mean those books in the collections of "active" collectors and dealers that sell on-line, know what CGC is, and are willing to sell. Me and Greggy are perfect examples of this phenomena with regards to selling, and the "friend of the family" is a perfect example of an inactive collector with great books but who probably has never heard of CGC. I have no doubt that there are tons of undiscovered books from the late 60's to present out there - and since the inception of this forum my view has changed towards thinking there are more, rather than less.

Finally, from my personal experience in trying to find books for myself (and buying pieces/parts of 4-5 original owner collections of late silver/early bronze), there's a huge difference in trying to get NM copies of books from 1970-1973 as opposed to 1974 and later. I'll buy just about any 20-cent NM Marvel at full guide...anyone got any for sale??

The 1976-1977 Overstreet price guide (No. 6) has a section on storing and preserving comics that specifically mentions the use of bags, and even mentions using mylar! The back cover has an ad for "Clear Plastic Comic Bags" from Robert Bell - I still see these occasionally and they're hard to miss since they have his name written all over them. I also remember going to the Book Gallery in G-ville (downtown by the library) in the mid-70's where I bought back issues for 10-cents, and there were books in bags behind the counter on a special display shelf. If only I'd bought that Hulk #6!!!

Overstreet Price Guide #6 is also the 1st guide that X-men 94 showed up in, and it was identified as "New X-men begin". Hulk 181 wasn't broken out until the 1978-1979 guide.

The stack of Spideys Ted showed us came out about a year after Hulk 181, so there was obviously hoarding going on at that time. The 9.6 Ghost Rider I sold you came to me in an unbagged/unboarded stack (as do all the books from that collection), and many of them have garnered 9.6 and 9.8's, so a bag/board aren't necessarily needed to keep these puppies brand-new looking. I know for a fact a raw "NM" copy, as well as a CGC 9.2 and 9.4, came out of the same collection, so there's another hoarder...

Looking at a 10 year investment horizon, accounting for inflation and an expected "average" return of a traditional investment portfolio, a 9.4 that costs about 2k now would need to be worth about 5-6k to make it a better investment than stocks/bonds/cash. How many people on this board have ever spent 5k on a comic book? How many people period? How about $50? How about $500? I think we need a poll!

The last couple of 9.4's on ebay brought $2,000-2,300, which is slightly higher than they were going for 6 months ago. However, Murph picked up a great looking copy from Heritage for under $1,850 last weekend, so I'd say prices have leveled off on this book, and seriously doubt it will be a 10k book in 10 years, or a 5k book in 5 years for that matter. 9.6's and 9.8's maybe, but I suspect there will be more 9.4's coming to the market than there is demand for them at 2-3k.

I mean, rarely a week goes by that there's not a 9.4 (and multiple 9.2's and 9.0's) on ebay. Huge demand, but also a (relatively) huge supply. To compare the price increases for this book to those for early Silver Age is not really even comparing apples to oranges...I think we'll have a good idea of the future of this one by this summer, after the X-men 2 craze hits.

Yes - all the rumors I've heard are that he's either staying or leaving! Apparently he asked Spurrier last year if the 'skins would draft him if he came out, and Stevie said he couldn't guarantee it. He's probably the best QB Spurrier ever had at UF with regards to his arm strength and NFL-potential. Wuerffel was the smartest at calling audibles and could make all the throws under 50-yards...

If only...next year we'll (Gatorskins) will be better. I think it's become obvious that Ramsey will be the starting QB the rest of the way, and next year.

Rex? Nothing happened to him...but something did happen to our OC!

You'll have to lmk!

Well, I didn't post the part about where he called me on the phone and "made it up to me" by sending me file copies (although they weren't NM) of a couple photocover Munsters books which I flipped on ebay.

I generally get along well with everyone I associate with, but there comes a time when you gotta stand up for your values...and this was one of 'em. I don't think "omc@cam.org" had much success selling on racm after that...and the record will show I was just bandwagonning (is that a word ) on others' experiences. You should've seen me in action when those Nolies were bashing Spurrier after Dockett-gate last year!

Here's a link to an old racm thread/Gerry Ross bashing that I participated in. Sleazebag...

Gerry challenges me to "come forward", and he gets ripped a new one, and never does come down to Heroes Con again.

Man, this place is like a soap opera...

I highly doubt that a 9.4 will go for $4,000 within a year. There are far too many copies out there!

I've gotta agree here - 9.6's and better might continue to go up, but once you get above $2k, the pool of collectors that can afford this book (with the census numbers out there) goes way down...

Too bad my turntable died many years ago.

You didn't toss it did you!?!? Those things can go for bucks on this place called ebay...

Good call - 171 has a great, red cover featuring the Hulk about to be sandwiched between a hard-charging Rhino and the immovable Abomination!!! This book was reprinted with an accompanying audio record by Power Records, and yes, I still have my original copy from the 70's

Doubling or tripling your money is a lot easier when you're paying $2 each...

Oh so true - any book is a good investment at the right price! As for the Hulks between 210-315, they're tough to find allright...cause they were pretty bad .

As for investment/speculation in comic books based on the movie, I would look for the 1st Doc Samson, Abomination, and/or the Leader. These characters are all gamma-spawned, which entwines them in the Hulk mythos, and could easily be planted in this movie as minor characters to re-appear as major villains in Hulk 2 ('05). The antagonists for this film appear to be 1) himself (love it); 2) his hard-drinking/abusive father (hate it), 3) THE GAMMA-SPAWNED HULK DOGS FROM HELL (why, man, why ), and 4) Talbot/Ross (true, true).

I heard initially that Crusher Creel was going to be in it, but that rumor died.

Hey, I didn't say the prices were better, but the selection sure is. Yes, there are better deals at shows - I walk out of the local quarterly shows with a couple nice books for my collection, and others I plan on flipping, but I do like to buy comics more than every 3 months!!

Before ebay, I was lucky to save up a couple hundred bucks every few months to attend the local show and complete my Hulk collection. Shows, local shops, and mail order, were the only alternatives.

Since ebay, I've been able to complete my pre-'65 Marvel Silver Age collection, build a nice golden age collection comprised of many books you don't even see at most cons, all the while having my addiction to comics support itself, which leaves my paycheck from my "real" job to support my family. No, I'll be on ebay for many moons to come, and I look forward to continuing the buying/selling relationships I've been fortunate enough to establish with many honest buyers and sellers over the last 5 years...thanks guys!

No.

The fundamental benefit of ebay and the internet is that collectors can buy and sell with other collectors directly, cutting out the middleman. Regardless of whether the market is going up or down, if you're continually buying and selling you're way better off than in the pre-ebay, pre-internet days when you're only real option was to sell to dealers (at typically less than half guide).

If you hit a big show and have the bucks, you can basically find most Silver and Bronze issues without the hassle of searching all night.

No way! If you think the selection is better at big shows, I need to go to those shows b/c I've never been to a show with the selection of an average week or two of listings on ebay (multiple keys in varying grade, gold, silver, bronze, etc.,.).

And yes, there are scammers on ebay, but after 5 years and over 2,000 succesful transactions, I've only been scammed once, and it was by a buyer (bad check - live and learn!). I know "ebay scammers" is one of your campaign themes and all, but there are way more good/honest sellers out there than there are liars, cheaters, and scammers. And yes, this includes CGC-sellers!

What's up Zonker?

I'm hearin' ya on the argument that Adams/O'Neil team were the catalyst for the Bronze Age. Adams started working at DC in the middle of the Silver Age, and up until about late 1968 his work was constrained to fit the mold of the books of the time, but really, starting with his work on Strange Adventures, he began breaking the mold and doing his own, revolutionary thing. Both Deadman and Batman became what could be classified as anti-hero, darker characters that seem to be the concensus on this thread of what the Bronze Age was about.

Neal Adams also changed the way the industry worked behind-the-scenes - both in advocating creators/artists rights and in the way the books were made (specifically, the printing/coloring process DC started using). He was a revolutionary at the start of the revolution. In addition, Adams' influence resulted in changing the popluar artistic style from cartoonish (Kirby, Ditko) to the more photo-realisistic/highly detailed style seen throughout the Bronze Age (Smith, Byrne, Perez...).

I'm afraid though, that Detective 395 is too much of a stand-alone book to qualify. On the other hand, GL 76 is a recognized Key that was the beginning of a solid 2-year run by the Dynamic Duo. A DC book, GL 76, is also supported by the fact that DC starting putting out the anti-hero, darker, horror themed, non-superhero characters, monster-centered books a good year or two before Marvel FOLLOWED suit.

In a nutshell, it looks like we're down to GL 76 (great choice), Conan 1 (solid choice), or Giant Size X-men 1 (whatever!!). Who's gonna start a new thread with a Poll?

Good idea, so when you see a couple NM Mile High gems on ebay with blue labels you'll fear my 5-year old's proficiency with a scissors!!

Ya...what you don't know can't hurt me And hey, I don't see any of his constructive, positive contributions to the hobby on this thread