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If a perfect book didn't have bindery tears it would be a 9.9 or a 10.0 The size of the tears do affect the grade. For example, you can't have a particularly long tear on a 9.8. What would you want the ceiling lowered to?

Speculators are a flaky bunch. Many of them jump from one ship to the next as soon as some new piece of information comes out. Do you think many of them know that IMSM #1 predates both IM #1 and SM #1? Either way, no big deal. People collect what they like and Cal apparently really likes IMSM #1. Go nuts, Cal!

Sometimes books slip through the cracks at auction. I recently sold a CGC 6.5 for $70K (shameless plug, yes I do have my 5.0 on eBay now )

Showcase #4 CGC 5.0 on eBay Feel free to message me with any questions or concerns. I do have flexibility on price.

You should see what he has to say about Tiger Woods.

Whatever makes you happy.

Obviously, Captain. So have all major auction houses, dealers and high volume collectors. I didn't pick an argument. I tried to educate you on the history of the topic because it wasn't a new one and had already been rehashed a zillion times (and continues to be an issue regularly on the chat forum). I was trying to help you understand CGC's stance on the topic. You said that you'd read up on the history of the topic (something that wasn't obvious to me by the way you took on the topic) but stated things that seemed to show you hadn't (like the fact that CGC had already addressed newton rings) I started to doubt you'd read up on the topic. Who wouldn't? If you took any of that as derision, a personal attack or a lack of logic that's up to you. I also wished you good luck in your crusade. Seriously, good luck in making newton rings go away.

Because the primary reason CGC came onto the scene was to facilitate person to person internet transactions with a higher degree of certainty. You get a reasonably level playing field when it comes to grading and restoration check. Most of my collection was raw and they were either books I bought raw or books I bought slabbed and cracked out. Nobody is forcing you to keep the book encapsulated.

Obviously not since I'm shadowboxing with you. You just did in your last quote to me.

I did. It didn't work. Do you suggest people should take on lifelong crusades for their 1st world problems and let more important things by the wayside? Your beef is with CGC and not with people selling CGC graded books. Attempting to make it otherwise is just a waste of time.

I roll my eyes in your general direction.

Alrighty then Captain Obvious, let me know when you change the angle of that windmill.

CGC is hiring more graders every year, their lines get longer at every show and their onsite submissions set new records every show. Their first million books took about 7 years to achieve. Their 2nd million was about 4 years. I'll 'speculate' that their submissions are not slowing down. The 'so what' (since you missed it is that if the major submitting dealers don't push back on CGC, change isn't gong to happen. A bunch of collectors on a chat forum are a drop in the bucket comparatively speaking. Nobody said the complaint wasn't valid. I was one of the chief complainants in 2016 (if FSF had read those threads he'd have known that) but that still doesn't mean it's going to change anything. The market has spoken loud and clear. Nothing is changing. Until then, I'm not holding my breath.

Uh, no I'm not. I'm making the correlation that submission levels are indicative that people are not going to stop submitting to CGC. Except it's my understanding that they are reholdering books with newton rings for free. So there goes that business model. You might want to reconsider your hobby if newton rings are going to burn you out in disgust. As far as your submission dollars, most dealers spend more on submissions than collectors. One auction house probably spend more on submissions in a year than most collectors combined. Anyway, good luck. I think this discussion has been beaten to death already.

They also crackle a little bit because of the pin holes in the newsprint that 'stick' together ever so slightly.

You said you read those historical threads where literally everyone on the chat forum that posted about them complained but it doesn't sound like you did. A 'large number of constituents' did complain and threads still pop up regularly to reopen the discussion but nothing is changing. The only way change will happen is if it affects the profitability of the business. If people keep submitting it won't affect the profitability of the business. . A significant amount of people would need to stop buying CGC slabs because of newton rings for it to affect CGC and that doesn't seem to be slowing significantly. And since people keep submitting regardless, it won't change

Every company makes mistakes. We've had threads about CGC dropping the ball here. If it was a legit complaint the first thing the OP should have provided were before and after pics. And even then, there are so many grey areas in the OPs story. For example, you're only hearing their side of the story.

You can post anything you want. I'm not stopping you. I was just trying to save you the trouble and explain that they had a wall of complaints back in 2016 both on the chat forum and at local conventions throughout the year (including bringing one of Collectors Society's top executives to San Diego to field concerns and complaints - I spoke to him) and the general consensus on here is that they have pretty much stated that nothing is changing. If you read those historical posts you'd know that. Knock yourself out.

If you're saying that the money always wins then welcome to the capitalist economy. You're beating a dead horse. Search for newton rings discussions from April to the fall of 2016 and read to your heart's content.. Maybe when they recoup from their investment from the product change back in 2016 they may have a solution in mind but nothing is changing anytime soon. Your choices are to use CGC or go elsewhere.

So then you are adding a lot to cost. I'm sure CGC has looked at options. I can only think that any changes at this point would be price prohibitive. Then the additional costs of retooling (and of coming up with a complex mold as opposed to a simple sheet, which the top of the inner well now is) would then be passed onto the submitters who already have complained about every price hike. I agree that newton rings are unappealing (and even unacceptable) but I just don't see it happening.

It doesn't seem to have slowed down submissions.

This discussion was hashed out two years ago to death (and most agree with you). CGC isn't changing anything.

Or, cunningly devise a way for the faces of the two materials to not touch. Some kind of perimeter ridge around the inner well maybe While I can't say for sure, I don't think you want a thick outer case around a thin book in an inner well. This might allow the book to bend inside the thicker outer case under some forms of impact. Also, just like a comic book is not perfectly flat, the inner liner is never perfectly flat. It would be almost impossible to avoid contact between inner and outer liners. I'm sure there is a solution (like applying some sort of film between the contact surfaces) but it's likely not cost effective and I don't think submitters will want to pay more for their slabs than they already do.

I had just checked in to see if the OP had provided before and after pics of the book in question and saw that.

Because they would need to change either the materials the inner well is made out of or the outer holder (or both).