VintageComics

It's really become a discussion over my use of the phrase "biblical proportions" and with Disney, the biggest juggernaut strategically stopping publication of relevant comics, cancelling toy lines, revoking merchandising, mocking the FF cast and manipulating the X-men comics, I think it's safe to say that it wasn't a multi-Million $ counter effort, it was a multi-Billion $ counter effort. I also think that because Biblical and Billion both start with B that my point stands.

Sounds like another studio affecting the end product of the art. I'd hate to be a director or producer and have my creation completely ruined by studio execs. Incredible how often this happens. I was unaware of it being so common in movies until the extensive discussions we've had over the last few months.

I think it's far easier to estimate a reimagined grade with Qualified books than it is for Restored books for the reason that you're basically just removing one defect. With Restored books, that's much harder to figure out because the resto hides a lot of what was underneath it and therefore there is some more risk there, so I understand why CGC would be reluctant to estimate an unrestored grade. That risk is really is where the flippers play their game. They're willing to gamble for the win, but as they say big risk, big reward. FWIW, I've only ever had resto removed from 2 or maybe 3 books ever, tops. It's not something I really dabble in.

Man, on the bright side the books went to someone who appreciated them.

I personally believe it's not just about whether the color of the labels segregates the books, but it's also about how colored labels are segregated from the Universal label. It's interesting that you mention the Green label, as I have also long had the opinion that the Green label has done a similar disservice to comic prices for a similar but slightly different reason. I've long had the belief that CGC should always list both the Qualified AND the Universal grade of the book so that buyers can make a more informed decision. For example, a chunk out of the cover may give the book a Qualified 9.4 grade but the book may actually grade a 7.0 Universal. Why wouldn't CGC list both grades on the Green label, thereby giving potential buyers a more informed decision? You can see the parallel...the more a potential buyer knows about the non-Universal book, the better they can value it compared to the Universal market. We had a clear example of this many years ago on these very forums. One of our longtime forum members bought a qualified TOS #39 many years ago with one hole punch through the cover. I think the book was graded a Qualified NM range range (may have been a 9.4). They ended up seeing the value in the book that nobody else could and they bought it for a bargain as a qualified 9.4 that ended up resubbing into a blue label 7.0...and being worth much more than they paid for it as a qualified book. People who are flipping Restored books by un-restoring them are doing exactly this. By self educating themselves on how to reverse engineer the Restored and Qualified books into what they think the book will grade as a Universal label, they are finding the hidden value that's causing the mini market of un-restoring books that some are talking about. Imagine if CGC had the unrestored or unqualified grades on their labels? I believe that using a different label color has caused a hindrance or a roadblock to the average Joe in this education process by causing them to outright shun these books rather than be forced to engage with them and therefore learn about them, and that goes for both Restored and Qualified.

I think people's aversion to nuance is due at least partially to the fact that there is just an overwhelming amount of info out there these days, and most can't handle it or outright simply don't want to, but the devil is in the details. I'm actually quite surprised at how many people agree with me on the Purple / Blue label thing now. It was not a very popular side to be on when we had the discussion back then. There was a lot of vehement opposition to it, but the tide seems to have turned and more people see the benefit of it these days.

You said in one sentence what I took many to say. The nuance was lost, and as we've seen in the real world on almost every topic, nuance can be the difference between light and darkness.

I also agree with this. I think the different color label and the "PLOD Purple Label OF Death" term that came from it had a long-term impact on market sentiment towards restored books, just as it affected my sentiment initially. Thanks. Just a cursory look at how much effort and how many public discussions we've had discussing what goes into the Blue Label grading system on these boards in the last 20 years shows how much more we understand that system. There must be 100 or even 1000 X the threads on blue label grading compared to purple label grading. Everyone pretty much reverse engineered CGC's blue label grading system within a few years of releasing the slabs in the 2000's. By the mid 2000's I was pretty well versed on CGC grading. By relative contrast what constitutes how a purple label is designated still a mystery to most. Just imagine how many public discussions we'd have had on what constitutes restoration if both restored and unrestored would have been in the same colored labels? The collective consciousness would have been much more well versed in both, likely even equally. If you label something as "bad' out in the real world, it gets shunned pretty quickly and becomes nearly obsolete and people stop discussing it. That's why Borock attempted to backtrack around the mid 2000's. We had public discussions on this very forum about the idea of putting restored books into blue labels, only with clear notations that the books were restored, but as I stated the horse was already out of the gate and many people vehemently opposed that move, which is why CGC stopped the idea. The discussion got pretty heated at times with people openly accusing me of being greedy and only wanting to profit from the new idea. Whatever. This is also why Voldy went along with it when Borock got involved. He still felt it was better for the hobby in general, and there was a decent contingent of people who agreed.

Everything you stated has stayed on point, germane to the discussion and within the goal posts. I'm so glad you see it. It just continues to go in circles and normal discussion is truly impossible, which is why I stopped responding. Thanks for bringing up all of those points. I learned a lot from you about the Marvel / Disney / Fox battle and it has just strengthened my beliefs in the points I've been making.

I think the problem was that early on a vast majority of books that were submitted and got noted as having restoration were not thought to be restored when submitted. Folks were finding out they had been duped by unscrupulous sellers. The color of the label didn't create the negativity, the restoration did. I agree that the initial surge of restored books coming back from created a large distaste. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that the purple label perpetuated that stigma, and suppressed interest in these books and this in turn created a reluctance to understand purple labels better the way people have come to learn about and understand what goes into a blue label because they were so readily accepted. A parallel today would be when social media creates a distaste for a personality or product and people just begin to avoid it, even though there might be more to the story or even something to be learned from it or good to be gained from it. And I also argued, alongside Borock nearly 20 years ago now, that if both restored books were put into blue labels from the outset but with additional notes rather than a different colored label, this too would have forced buyers to better understand restoration because it would have FORCED buyers to think before deciding rather than just unilaterally rejecting restored books. I also understand and agree with the concerns people had at the time that if CGC had switched to a blue label across the board after the horse had already left the gates, that it would have been very confusing, but if everything had been blue from the start it would have been a different hobby in terms of acceptance of restored books. Not really a big problem in the grand scheme of things, and I don't care either way at this point, but I do believe that this perpetuated distaste for purple labels helped open the gap in prices and create the cottage market that formed between the two labels. Anyway, it's water under the bridge now.

I had an exchange similarly spooky in Toronto, also about a decade ago. It was in a very sketchy part of town and so I told my ex to call 911 if I wasn't back in the car within a few minutes or didn't hear from me. I was there to drop off a book. To make matters worse, they asked me to go around the house to the back entrance. When I knocked on the door a large dog was jumping up on the door, scraping it with his claws. It turned out to be a strong Pit Bull. I got pretty scared, pretty quickly and remember seeing a spade with a long handle on it by the door and so I made a mental note of grabbing it if I needed some backup in a hurry. When the guy opened the door I saw claw marks from the dog on the inside of the door reaching all the way up to about 6 feet in height. The inside of the door was destroyed by the dog, who was barking from somewhere inside the house. Thankfully, all went smooth, but I was sweating a bit until I got out of that yard.

I've argued for over 15 years that the purple label created a distaste for that label, which created a strong public aversion to slabbed Restored books, preventing people from trying to understand restored books better and causing the large price disparity. That's the main reason they're so affordable and why the price gap is large enough for people to profit in between. And I agree. As long as I know what I'm getting, for some pieces I don't mind restored.

I know a high end, celebrity security guard who was commissioned to transport a bottle of champagne or wine (can't remember) from the titanic. The bottle was worth so much money that they designed a case for the bottle. This guy worked security for some of the biggest celebrities and even former presidents. The case was engineered to withstand a drop from the air so that the bottle wouldn't break even if the plane or helicopter went down. They tested it by dropping it several times from the air with another bottle, before using it for the real deal. True story.

If anyone wants to bid, these items end tomorrow evening, 8PM PST, Sunday Dec 17th 2023. And believe me, next year will be huge. You will want to follow the event if you're in the area or want to do a travel stay-cation for a great rock and roll event and an amazing cause! Thanks to everyone for their time for reading this. @CGC Mike Hopefully these last posts are OK. If you want to move this to the Dealer / Selling form I understand. Just wanted to give these auctions a little more traction for a great cause. Thanks to all!

And finally, we have a framed, signed drum skin and sticks, donated by our very own John Dolmayan of System of a Down AND Torpedo Comics!

We have a guitar donated and signed by Sammy Hagar

We have a Marvel Comics Super Special #1 CGC 9.2 donated by myself (KISS donated their blood into the red ink for this comic.

We have a signed photograph of Ronnie James Dio

The reason I'm posting about this event again is to share that Midnight Wonderland decided to auction a few of the more expensive items to raise money for the Midnight Mission in Downtown Los Angeles and you may be interested in bidding. The auctioneer, Velvet Cricket, has waived their auction fees for this event and ALL proceeds will go directly to the Midnight Mission. https://thevelvetcricket.com/search/product-buyer-auction/4485?Whisky A Go Go Auction PC #10Midnight Wonderlands Benefit Auction

Gang, a couple of last posts about the Midnight Wonderland event that I posted about a few months ago. The event was this past Tuesday, December 12th at the World Famous Whisky-A-Go-Go in Los Angeles and was a smash success! We had members of Bio-Hazard, Body Count, Cypress Hill, Goldfinger, Bad Wolves, Ministry, BulletBoys and more perform. If you want to see concert footage and pics, you can go to the IG page for Midnight Wonderland which is run by my friend Jowell. I'm just a grunt and have no other affiliation other than being a sponsor and helping with some of the grunt work for the event. I'd recommend you follow the page as the event is just getting bigger and better and will be happening next year again. We already have some even bigger, surprise superstars lined up for next year! https://www.instagram.com/midnightwonderland_/ This is a shot of me at the event. I was an official sponsor and I had to get a shot of me with my logo on the sponsor screen! You'll notice the Heritage Auctions logo below mine as they were a sponsor as well.

To me it's a sobering wake up call as to how life can turn on any one of us when we make just a few bad decisions. I'm not trying to moralize at people, these are conclusions I've come to myself as I've matured. Life is pretty fragile no matter how much we want to think it isn't, and often the "Goldilocks conditions" that we live under can come undone pretty quickly. Sometimes it just takes one bad decision and I can remember times in my life where I took one turn that changed everything. This is such an unfortunate story on so many levels for everyone involved that it's heartbreaking.

My apologies if there was a misunderstanding. I didn't mean you at all. Eugene in particular just has a long history of bad behavior around comic books for some reason. I think everyone appreciates your efforts to help.

I sure hope it wasn't pressed. This is just simple economics. Flippers obviously have done the homework and see the value in restored books enough to unrestore them. If collectors were more educated about restoration and paid more for that book when it was restored nobody would perform that work. For example, let's say it was something like a 5.0 Restored, if buyers were willing to pay 3.5 Universal money for it as a 5.0 Restored, then that would remove the incentive for someone to buy it and remove the resto for a profit preserving the book AND keeping it better looking. I argued the same for pressed books when the Great Pressing Wars were happening. If regular collectors were willing to pony up for "virgin" books they'd remove the profit incentive for pressing them and kill that market. Those markets only exist because there's incentive.

As anyone who has followed the hobby for a while knows, Eugene, OR was a hotbed of bad comic activity for many years and so I hope the usual suspects have not gotten involved as this would make customer's books easy pickings for this sort of thing.