VintageComics

......waaay to near to silveracre for my liking It IS Silveracre. Darryl has set up a grading company. So it's going to be fair and impartial.

Putting it into late September certainly helps as Labor Day weekend is the last weekend of the summer before back to school so it was a hectic one this year!

As I stated earlier, I think most of us are unable to detach monetary gain from historical evaluation. Money is so influential in this day and age and it affects our perception, like it or not. Now that Cap #1 is more valuable on the open market it becomes the more popular book. It's that simple. And I'll freely admit that this was part of the appeal during my formative years in the 1980's with Marvel #1. It was unattainable and I wanted it all the more.

Yep.

Agreed. Or just take a poll from 10 years ago before the Marvel cinematic universe was formed. It probably would have been Marvel #1 by a landslide. My post from CG

Not too sure how you can equate Marvel Comics #1 with Detective #1. Marvel Comics #1 had Torch and Subby...Detective #1 had.... Because the comparison is apt. Johnny Storm is the "Human Torch" that everyone knows today, and MC 1 isn't Subby's first appearance (MPFW). It's apt because you defy logic with your bias (why, I have yet to entirely figure out) and are constantly trying to build a position to fit your argument. Green Lantern, The Flash etc all had different alter egos between GA and SA. They're still GL and the Flash and their key 1st appearances are still important. Marvel did have Subby, Human Torch, the Angel and Kazar and while none are considered A list material right now (and that is mostly because the FF franchise has been cancelled by Marvel due to a movie rights battle) the Torch (both the android and Johhny) and Subby were mainstays at Marvel for decades starting in FF #4 through to the copper age. I'd call them B+ characters as they were heavily involved in the Marvel universe. And the Torch and Subby were A list material during the GA. As far as it being Subby's 1st appearance, nobody actually knows (and this coming from someone who is a fan and former owner of MPFW #1 and Marvel Comics #1). There is no clear proof as to whether MPFW #1 was ever distributed as the only known examples to ever be found were all from the estate of Lloyd Jacquet so it is more than likely that they were just trial books that never made it the public. If so, they were be akin to an ashcan (although they weren't ashcans). So when I state the basis for my logic you call it "bias", but when you do it's..... "facts"? Whether or not you agree with it, Subby's first appearance isn't MC 1. Nor is it Ka-zar's first appearance. A character named "human torch" first appeared in it, but has since been essentially lost to time and replaced by an entirely different character, 50+ years ago, that happens to have the same hero name. I suppose Angel first appeared in MC 1, but that doesn't really score you any "relevance points". No such vagaries exist with Cap 1. It's a clear cut win- first hero appearance , first nemesis appearance (and overall major Marvel Universe villain), first sidekick , classic cover, #1 issue, etc. His GA appearance wasessentially as he is today, much like Bats and Supes. The biggest thing MC 1 has going for it is the biggest thing Tec 1 has going for it-the first books of their respective publishers. And that's still pretty cool! Just not as cool. It's no wonder Cap handily won the poll. -J. You state that DC is the first book form that publisher but it isn't. You state that the characters in Marvel #1 are irrelevant but that wasn't the case through the 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's. It only became the case after the FF Movie rights were sold and the movies bombed. There's a reason Marvel #1 was the most valuable book in the OSPG. Cap #1 is 'more popular' than Marvel #1 for exactly the same reason that AF #15 is more popular than FF #1. Movies and people not knowing the past or getting into comics but never having read them. And historical significance doesn't change. Popularity does.

I asked. It's not for sale or coming to market. It was a customer's copy.

Odd, it works for me. Maybe you need to be logged into Facebook.

Do you have a pic/scan Roy ? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1295277677151786&set=pcb.1295278957151658&type=3&theater

Al Stoltz posted a killer copy on Facebook that was freshly graded onsite in Baltimore. There's a new 7.5 on the census.

I have good friends at both companies. But my 'bias' is really only interested in what is real. I've publically criticized both companies, because neither is perfect. Both companies have over and undergraded books. When one person parrots the same thing over and over (like you do) their bias is clearly showing.

Care to explain why you regretted submitting your books to them? Was it because they came back graded too loose or tighter than what you were led to believe by most comments here? Or was it due to slow turnaround times, poor communications, insecure packaging for shipping, etc? Or was it simply because they did not look nice and were not compatible with the rest of your slabs since the others are all CGC slabs? Your post just left a lot of unanswered questions that should probably be clarified a bit more. By the tone and context I presumed that he simply got a disappointing, cut-rate price for the slabs when he tried to sell.... -J. Another opportunity to jab. You never miss one, even it means speaking for others. +1, low blow J Huh? Then you may want to steer completely clear of this thread : http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9538857&fpart=1 -J. This is called tilting at a windmill with a palm leaf in hand trying to do mortal combat. I'm starting to think you own stock in Voldy. I suppose, in a way you do. You know, they do have some semblance of a chat board up now, right ? Maybe you and roulette44 can meet up over there and say hi to each other and the 3 other people on there ? -J. I own no stock in Voldy but do have good friends who work there. I am happy to talk about negative and positives about both companies but as Roulette stated your attacks are baseless.

Not too sure how you can equate Marvel Comics #1 with Detective #1. Marvel Comics #1 had Torch and Subby...Detective #1 had.... Because the comparison is apt. Johnny Storm is the "Human Torch" that everyone knows today, and MC 1 isn't Subby's first appearance (MPFW). It's apt because you defy logic with your bias (why, I have yet to entirely figure out) and are constantly trying to build a position to fit your argument. Green Lantern, The Flash etc all had different alter egos between GA and SA. They're still GL and the Flash and their key 1st appearances are still important. Marvel did have Subby, Human Torch, the Angel and Kazar and while none are considered A list material right now (and that is mostly because the FF franchise has been cancelled by Marvel due to a movie rights battle) the Torch (both the android and Johhny) and Subby were mainstays at Marvel for decades starting in FF #4 through to the copper age. I'd call them B+ characters as they were heavily involved in the Marvel universe. And the Torch and Subby were A list material during the GA. As far as it being Subby's 1st appearance, nobody actually knows (and this coming from someone who is a fan and former owner of MPFW #1 and Marvel Comics #1). There is no clear proof as to whether MPFW #1 was ever distributed as the only known examples to ever be found were all from the estate of Lloyd Jacquet so it is more than likely that they were just trial books that never made it the public. If so, they were be akin to an ashcan (although they weren't ashcans).

Care to explain why you regretted submitting your books to them? Was it because they came back graded too loose or tighter than what you were led to believe by most comments here? Or was it due to slow turnaround times, poor communications, insecure packaging for shipping, etc? Or was it simply because they did not look nice and were not compatible with the rest of your slabs since the others are all CGC slabs? Your post just left a lot of unanswered questions that should probably be clarified a bit more. By the tone and context I presumed that he simply got a disappointing, cut-rate price for the slabs when he tried to sell.... -J. Another opportunity to jab. You never miss one, even it means speaking for others. +1, low blow J Huh? Then you may want to steer completely clear of this thread : http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9538857&fpart=1 -J. This is called tilting at a windmill with a palm leaf in hand trying to do mortal combat.

But a Voldy 9.0 AF #15 sold for $237K this past spring. http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1012?ArticleID=176921 And a high grade Suspense 3 also sold well in a Voldy holder a year ago. Uber high grade examples of mega grails that only come around once in a blue moon isn't going to tell you much. A sample size of "1" is obviously not enough to establish a control. We certainly have plenty of other examples of Voldy selling at a discount however, and it is certainly possible, if not likely, that the same AF 15 in a CGC holder would have fetched an even better price. -J. I read somewhere here on the boards that Voldemorts seem to be catching up in grading tightness. Is that true? I did one submission to them and I really regretted it. Now that CGC fixed their slab/wave problem I'm definitely back in the fold. I've read that anecdotally as well, but I haven't seen any recently graded slabs in hand personally. -J. They've tightened up. I've seen 100's of their boois at shows. I am not a fan of their new label though.

Care to explain why you regretted submitting your books to them? Was it because they came back graded too loose or tighter than what you were led to believe by most comments here? Or was it due to slow turnaround times, poor communications, insecure packaging for shipping, etc? Or was it simply because they did not look nice and were not compatible with the rest of your slabs since the others are all CGC slabs? Your post just left a lot of unanswered questions that should probably be clarified a bit more. By the tone and context I presumed that he simply got a disappointing, cut-rate price for the slabs when he tried to sell.... -J. Another opportunity to jab. You never miss one, even it means speaking for others.

Well then I'm a dork. I've been on the road for the last 3 days and I looked at it on my mobile device and misread it. I couldn't for the life of me understand why a Pence copy would beat out a US cents copy and now I understand. It didn't. Having said that, it's a VERY strong price for a Pence copy. Has any other Pence key sold at such a strong percentage of it's US counterpart?

What record price of a 7.0 are you referring to ? The UK copy Hulk #1 CGC 7.0 that ended on CC yesterday. The copy we've been discussing. It ended ar $40K.

Congrats ! Sorry, I missed it. Did he win the book? nope, I was simply commenting it's the highest graded pence. Would be nice if I could afford a book like that. I don't know if there is enough of a Pence copy market to set a record. I will say that I believe and have believed for a long time that both Pence and US copies should be equally valued. They are identical except for a cover price change. And as I stated earlier, I've felt that Hulk #1 was looking cheap. The 7.0 was a record price in grade. Coupled with the Comiclink 9.0 sale @ $275K two weeks ago, it's looking like Hulk #1 is picking up steam again.

Congrats ! Sorry, I missed it. Did he win the book?

It's a record price for a Hulk #1 7.0 if I'm not mistaken. I don't personally assign any additional value to UK copies as from what I know they are equal to the US copies in all ways except for the price slug. Traditionally, they've always sold for a discount to US copies. If you compare Hulk #1 to other keys like AF #15 and Showcase #4 then Hulk #1 has looked undervalued for some time now.

But a Voldy 9.0 AF #15 sold for $237K this past spring. http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1012?ArticleID=176921

The poor thing was obviously "stan-lee'd". That kinda accounts for the 2500 imho. , not a fan of the signature series? Yes, it would appear that a signature increases the value of an otherwise worthless common drek book. When it comes to a true vintage collectible comic book, however, a signature is probably treated more like a clear and visual defect by the marketplace. Probably one of the reasons why the signed 8.5 copy of AF 15 in the most recent HA auction managed to sell for only something like more than a $35K discount to the condition guide price. This is the book you speak of: https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-verified-signature-marvel-1962-cbcs-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7139-91159.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515# The signature isn't visible. I don't think having a signature impacted the value of this book. I'm thinking it is the condition of the book and the fact it is CBCS. If this book was cgc 8.5, SS, it would have done much better. That book was graded 3 years ago IIRC.

The poor thing was obviously "stan-lee'd". That kinda accounts for the 2500 imho. , not a fan of the signature series? Yes, it would appear that a signature increases the value of an otherwise worthless common drek book. When it comes to a true vintage collectible comic book, however, a signature is probably treated more like a clear and visual defect by the marketplace. Probably one of the reasons why the signed 8.5 copy of AF 15 in the most recent HA auction managed to sell for only something like more than a $35K discount to the condition guide price. Or people thought it was graded on the loose side. I don't think a Sig would devalue an otherwise good looking book.

That is an incredibly strong price. Wow.