VintageComics

Isn't it amazing how Musk was the darling of the world until he stepped out of line with the mainstream narrative? Personally, I welcome people to disagree respectifully. It's the only way to grow. A tree that isn't challenged by the weather will never be as strong as one that is. And a tree coddled by it's owner and protected from the elements will never reach it's full potential. It will end up stunted. You CAN NOT advance technology without having an open free entanglement of ideas. Are you not aware of this? By allowing greater entanglement of ideas you ARE continuing with technological advancement philosophy. Those protesting him are quashing the concept of open entanglement of ideas and trying to stop it because selfishly, they don't actually want a free market of ideas that comes from open entanglement. You CAN NOT control open discussion and also promote growth of tech. The two are necessarily, diametrically opposed. Just like you can't resolve problems on the chat forum if you don't allow both sides to speak. We've seen personal attacks on reputable people by ignorant people and if you only enabled one side of a discussion and did not allow a response from BOTH sides, these resolutions we are seeing happen in real time on this forum would never happen. And the truths being exposed would never have risen to the forefront as they have.

The answer to that, is you.

You're like an annoying mosquito I can't whisk away.

I couldn’t be more chill right now. I assume your question is rhetorical.... Well then that explains everything.

Dude, are you high? My points have addressed those that I felt needed to be addressed. Take Domo's advice and chill out.

I think this needs to be emphasized. There are not many people who are nicer or more helpful than George from GPA or Conan from MCS in my experience. I genuinely believe they are two of the best people involved in this hobby and that is why I myself took such exception to what was being discussed in the way I did. Nobody is perfect but they generally go above and beyond to be helpful and I feel that is worth noting. That a few people could throw people who are to my knowledge beyond reproach under a bus so easily is very disheartening and those are the acts people should be outraged about.

I obviously pay to track sales to make money from them but I don't rely on GPA to teach me how to make money, which is what some might be intending to glean from it. I use GPA as a general guide not as an instruction manual on what to buy, when to buy and when to sell. For those things, I spend a lot of time and effort reading, listening, learning and watching markets and things related to markets. I am realizing through this discussion that some may be using it as a flipping tool. I'm not a 'flipper' so it didn't cross my mind. As a potential flipper, I can understand the exception people are having, but I think a better question is how outraged should I be for a service I pay $10 a month for? People pay more for coffee each day than they pay for this service that is likely 99% accurate and that helps them maximize their investments on hobbies that cost them $1000's or even millions. That's why I keep saying I feel the outrage is disproportionate. Some in the discussion have lost sight of how much benefit we're getting for literally next to nothing in cost.

They're not endless and there are a million different reasons for outliers on GPA. These outliers we're talking about make up a very small portion of the market. As I stated, and this is just my gut feeling, there are likely more sales that are NOT COMPLETED through various reporting sites than there are late reported sales. Think about how many books sell on eBay alone, which is likely the largest contributor to GPA. There's no way of verifying every sale. So people need to understand that GPA is a great tool but it's not Gospel. And learning to interpret it is just as important as having a subscription to it. And people have been saying this for years. It's nothing new.

This would have ended very quickly if people were more accountable with themselves. If you hang someone out to dry on the internet and are obviously wrong about it, just admit it. Put the same amount of effort into apologizing as you did into getting the story wrong and it makes you look like 10 times the person you are compared to trying to sugarcoat it. And armchair critics who are quick to insinuating wrongdoing on the part of reporting to GPA really shouldn't be throwing such accusations around without understand the system better before doing it. ------------------------------ From my own experience, and for some additional perspective I've seen those outlier sales on GPA for years. I simply assumed it was either late reporting or someone hitting a BIN on a 'must have' item, or whatever. I never got offended by them, never thought anyone was doing anything wrong and they didn't affect me at all. I know that outliers happen for various reasons and I just move all outliers into an average. Problem solved. That's why I stated that people need to relax and understand how GPA works better and that the outrage is disproportionate to the disagreement. And let's be frank, I think it's likely that some are complaining about the timing of reporting a sale because they feel it might cause them to miss out on a buying or selling opportunity affecting their own personal interests. For what GPA is, it's an incredible product offering way more information than $10 a month can buy you anywhere else. You can never win every game but with a service like GPA you're winning most of the time and those are incredible odds.

I've known you for almost 20 years. You're always outraged.

I love that pic. Thanks, Stu. I'm adding these to the harassment file.

There's no elitist condescension being poured on. The outrage is disproportional to what's actually being discussed. People are arguing over an outlier as though it affects the entire hobby in some detrimental way (it doesn't) and some are even attributing malice or wrong doing rather than admitting they themselves were wrong. The witches to burn are the people who jump to conclusions without doing their homework. Or who make mountains out of molehills.

My reply was to your snarky, personal post toward me calling me a "white knight" I've always stood up for this community and was calling out people who spoke out of ignorance or just plain bad intentions. Why you'd take exception to that I have no idea but your comment calling me "white knight" was unnecessary. Do let us know when these topics being discussed actually affect you in some meaningful way. At least then you'd have some real incentive for actually making a mountain out of a molehill. And thank you for reminding me again why I've avoided posting here.

You're making this about you. Do you feel accusations made by Detective Dave, Detroit Rob and others about the integrity of the organizations involved in the discussion were OK?

I'd do the same for you if someone else was in the wrong and threw you under a bus, dork.

Have you seen MCS and GPA's windshields lately? Mods notified.

Anyone who submits data to GPA owes NOTHING to anyone. They're VOLUNTARILY submitting sales to GPA. It profits them nothing. They get NOTHING for their efforts except criticism. In fact, it would be more advantageous for them to NOT submit anything to GPA, as many dealers choose to do because that knowledge is power. ----------------------------------- The fact that some are shredding reputable people who are voluntarily submitting credible info really reveals the selfish and greedy nature of the general consumer. They expect everything for nothing. They want a lifetime of experience in interpreting data in a neat, $10 a month package and they want it to be perfect with a bow on it. And why do they expect that? Because they might miss out on an opportunity to use a cheap, voluntary, mass produced product to profit from it in some way. The reason people are complaining is because they don't know how to use GPA. The criticisms are driven by fear, greed and ignorance. Not because GPA or MCS is doing something wrong. If everyone steps back and stops hyper-analyzing each data point (something I've been saying for decades because it's creating massive volatility and doing damage to the market), and you use GPA is SUPPOSED to be used, then one data point a few months out doesn't affect the over all picture on GPA any more than it would in the Overstreet Price Guide. Especially on a high volume selling book that sells 100s or even 1000s of copies a year! Can the system be improved? Sure. Anything can always be improved but the tone of the discussion and accusations being levied by some are utterly ridiculous and overly entitled. And while I'm a full time dealer now, people will remember that I've always felt this way and defended people's right to submit or not submit to GPA and also the expectations to have of GPA. ----------------------------------------------- I have a question: Do all the critics have any idea how many books out of the millions of books auctioned and recorded each year are NOT paid for? No? Neither do I. But I'll bet that number is much higher than the odd book that's put on time payments at MCS and reported after it's paid for. Some people in this discussion over the last few days are just ridiculous and have lost all perspective. Welcome to social media.

You accused MCS of wrong doing and are now entertaining the idea that MCS is possibly being malicious. Good grief. What is wrong with you people? This is exactly the line of thinking that 'Detective Dave' started with an unfounded accusation that should have been avoided. You should get your facts and words straight first before you speak because you're making accusations at the expense of someone else. HE (Dave) was wrong and YOU are wrong. MCS was NOT wrong. You seem to be the one who doesn't understand how GPA works. You can try to make GPA more accurate but you have to understand that it's nothing more than a cheap, $10 a month site that captures high volume sales. There are going to be variables, outliers and especially mistakes. It is not a university course meant to spoon feed you the FMV. It's just one tool and it's never going to replace experience, research and common sense.

Let's get a grip on reality. MCS is doing nothing wrong. They owe you nothing and their reporting is entirely voluntary. MCS is reporting a sale when a sale is completed and they don't owe anyone anything more than that. Some reported sales are never completed, some are completed well after the customer commits to the sale and some sales are never even reported. GPA is full of variables. Where everyone errs is trying to make it Gospel when it isn't. Your accusation of MCS doing something wrong is just as wrong as Detective Dave's video accusing them of collusion.

Fair enough, and I wouldn't presume to tell anyone how they should feel about the guy. After talking to you about it via PM I realized where we disagreed. I initially put in my post the 2nd video is "not worth watching" and then I edited that out because I was realized it was unfair of me to post that. You quoted my post before the edit and caught that. The only other thing we really differ on now is the size of the apology. If he puts out an entire video under the title of "collusion between _____________ and ___________" to 13K followers and realizes he was wrong then the next time he posts on the subject, his video should be titled "I was wrong about my accusation of collusion between ______________ and ___________" not "Hey, look what GPA is doing!" and bury the apology a few mins in. I take offense at that, but it nothing personal against this guy. I hate it when newspapers do it too and have railed on it for years. They'll post an inflammatory headline to sell papers and influence perception that throws one side under a bus and then days, weeks or months later they'll post a tiny retraction somewhere buried deep in the paper that nobody sees. And they do it REGULARLY. Like weekly, constantly riling up the masses for effect. Basic fairness should be the minimum expectation and not an exception to be applauded. That's the way things used to work pre internet.

I definitely don't want this discussion to turn into an intense internet battle so I'll keep it short. I'm always wrong. Especially with 100K posts. I'm human. And when I'm wrong I say I'm sorry first. When you accuse a large, well known business of fraud that's a huge thing. The size of the apology should be proportional to the size of the mistake. Aren't you in law? If you apologize and admit you're wrong, there's nothing to pile on about. It's over. And the few that do pile on after someone apologizes are obviously bad apples to everyone. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

You're one of those 'too nice' Canadians. You're almost obsolete now. The times, they are a changin' I disagree. He spent an entire video smearing reputable names. The first thing out of anyone's mouth should have been a profuse "I'm sorry - I was wrong". That would make the world a better place.

The first thing he should have said was that he wrongly accused two reputable auction houses of collusion and was WRONG. In fact, this should be the title of the video. Instead, he goes into the smoke screen first and slips in a small apology somewhere. The rest is just a discussion about GPA reporting. He comes from a family with a very long history in the hobby. His dad is a well known dealer and a comics restoration expert, as is his uncle. He should know better so I wouldn't feel too bad.

People throw things up for sale that they recently bought for many reasons, but one of the main reasons is cash flow. We see it on the boards ALL THE TIME. Just bought something...need to sell it. And auction houses can give aggressive cash advances for quality stuff so there is even further incentive if the buyer had the attention of a squirrel and wanted to chase another shiny object. I mean, have you looked around this hobby for more than 5 minutes? Everyone does it.

I never knew that MCS was holding GPA data for the duration of time payment plans. It makes sense in that the buyer hasn’t actually paid, but it definitely messes with GPA data. If someone buys a book for $5000, and that sale doesn’t show up until months later....it confuses the current value. Especially if the book is trading at $3500 by the time the $5000 sale is paid for. People keep looking at GPA expecting it to be some sort of authority. It's not. It's just a mirror reflecting the past. Sometimes it has smudges on the mirror. Sometimes there's some lint on it. Sometimes the mirror has a bend on it and doesn't reflect perfectly. The Guide used to be used as a general Guide with people LOOKING FORWARD and making their own decisions as to how much to pay for a book AFTER the Guide was printed. GPA is now being used as a risk mitigation guide so people can AVOID paying too much. This has caused a lot of fear and volatility to enter into the marketplace, and one thing we've learned for sure over the last 2 years, is that the majority can't think objectively or rationally and fear rules most people. So they want someone to do all the work for them, tell them exactly what to do without having to really think for themselves and just reap the benefits with little effort. If people focused on averages rather than single sales this would be a much better hobby for everyone, collectors and investors included. Hyperfocusing creates volatility and that is not good for anyone. ------------------------------------------ This is Mark Wilson's son? Well, then he should know better than to publicly accuse respected organizations of collusion and fraud so frivolously before really getting his facts straight. Way too many holes in his theory for someone who is not a noob in comics. Finally, there are many people in the hobby who can be accused of fraudulent behavior but I have no problem saying that MCS or Comiclink are not on that list. I've had many, extensive dealings with both of them in various capacities and both have been honorable and have acted beyond reproach in my experience, even when they didn't have to. It takes a long time to build something good and very little effort to tear it down. Influencers should choose their words carefully.