Get Marwood & I

Guys, There are two discussion points within this thread. One relates to the existence of Marvel US originals with ‘L Miller’ distribution lines on the indicias, the other relates to Marvel Price vs Font vs Indicia Variants. This post summarises my findings for Marvel Price vs Font vs Indicia Variants Since I started this thread, I’ve been compiling examples using images from the web and placing them in summary tables in an attempt to establish patterns and answers. So far I have posted three summary tables: 1. Journey Into Mystery #58 to #69 2. Tales To Astonish #9 to #20 3. Strange Tales #75 to 86 The titles cover the dates May 1960 to Jul 1961. It is very difficult to find images online of indicia data, so there are many blanks, but when I place the tables side by side, there are some reasonable observations that can be made. Observation 1 – 10c Price Format Variants (No T&P Indicia) May to Dec 1960 I have found no 10c copies with a Thorpe & Porter indicia line for any issue dated up to and including December 1960. 10c issues exist during this period with Price Format Variations (White Price Box / no White Price Box), but in each example I have found neither version carries the T&P line. Question – Why do US priced issues dated up to and including December 1960 have Price Format Variants? Observation 2 - 10c Price Format Variants (With T&P Indicia) Jan to Mar 1961 For the period January 1961 to March 1961, every 10c issue I have found as a ‘White Price Box’ variant carries the Thorpe & Porter distribution line on its indicia. I have found only two examples of a ‘No White Box’ issue during this date range (both TTA #16 font variants) and these also carry the T&P line. Question – Does every US original, Pence or Cents, carry the T&P distribution indicia line for the period January 1961 to March 1961? If so, why? Question – Why does TTA #16 have two different ‘No White Box’ 10c price fonts? Question – Why do JIM #64 & 65, and ST #81 have two different ‘White Box’ 10c price fonts? Observation 3 – Apr 1961 to Jul 1961 For all three titles, I have found only one type of US cents copy for the months April to Jul 1961. None of the examples carry the T&P indicia line. The current indication is that the cents variations cease from April 1961. Only one Pence and one Cents type has been found Conclusion: As I see it, the variations are likely to have been all printed in the US as there is no evidence to suggest that copies were printed anywhere else. For 10c priced copies, I have not been able to find an example for the same issue number where one variation has the T&P line and one doesn’t. So the likelihood is that we remain with only two ‘destination’ variants – one for the US and one for the UK, as it has always been. As I have not been able to link the existence of cent priced variations to another country that used cents and dollars, the assumption is that both were intended for the US market. The only logical conclusion I can come up with as to why there are cent variations for the US is that one of them is a subsequent printing. Hope this has made sense – if you’re interested, print off the summaries and compare them to the above conclusions. It brings it to life. Meanwhile, I’m going to continue to try to get someone in ‘authority’ to recognise the variations exist and, hopefully, help explain them. Over to you guys!

Strange Tales Conclusions to follow....

One of them is graded. Give up.

One of them is graded.

Woody I joined the boards for serious discussions on comics not this kind of thing. I'm logging off. Aren't you being a little heavy-handed when you bark at us like that? I wonder if he's holding a palm tree? No, it's a weeping willow. Because he was being "knotty"? Yes, so much so that he said to 'leave it out' or he'd call the copse. Bugger, that should've been 'leaf it out'. One out of two ain't bad I suppose.

Woody I joined the boards for serious discussions on comics not this kind of thing. I'm logging off. Aren't you being a little heavy-handed when you bark at us like that? I wonder if he's holding a palm tree? No, it's a weeping willow. Because he was being "knotty"? Yes, so much so that he said to 'leave it out' or he'd call the copse.

Chik chong, chiki chong, chiki chakka, chik chong. Chika bak chak chakkin' and a bow wow wow

Godzillaaaa! And Godzoookey. ...

I spotted that yes. I'm looking for one with a 10c Circle and a 9d smaller price. That would be a thing!

Woody I joined the boards for serious discussions on comics not this kind of thing. I'm logging off. Aren't you being a little heavy-handed when you bark at us like that? I wonder if he's holding a palm tree? No, it's a weeping willow.

Yep, I get that Ewan, but CGC differentiate 9d from 10c as they are copies for different markets which is an important distinction for collectors. Any serious grading company would want all the facts to grade accurately / not mislead their buyers, surely. If we can badger them enough to recognise the possibility that a 10c cover with a T&P indicia could itself be an issue targeted to a country other than the US, then we may get somewhere. I intend to keep asking them until they reply - even if it's just to say "please go away". If proven, CGC would be duty bound to recognise the variance. Sooner or later, someone will dip into this thread with an answer. I've been trying to find historic exchange rate data for 1960. No luck so far. Maybe T&P distributed for Australia too. The Web indicates that T&P had a relationship with that country. But then I find they went decimal in 1966 so weren't using dollars in 1960. More thoughts tomorrow, once I've posted the Strange Tales chart.....

Thanks Mysterio for all those lovely scans. I'll check them to see if any help the cause. Indicia scans will help, for the ungraded ones if you can Ewan, I'm half way through a Strange Tales chart for the same dates. Will post that tomorrow along with my thoughts and conclusions.

Price vs Font vs Indicia Variants Latest charts below. There are patterns if you look... No word from CGC after 5 days Tales To Astonish Journey Into Mystery

"In the Wonderland Zoo, that'll be 20c to you...."

Hello BC - thanks for posting all those lovely covers! I really appreciate the effort As my friends said, and assuming you own the books, it would be great if you could provide scans of the indicias, linked to each cover, so we can see whether they have the 'THORPE & PORTER' distribution line. I can then add them to my chart (see below) and we'll be able to see which font type has them: On a separate note, I have written to CGC twice - once through the 'Ask CGC' function on these boards, and once through their website contact function. So far, no response. Let's hope they at least respond eh....

Woody I joined the boards for serious discussions on comics not this kind of thing. I'm logging off. Aren't you being a little heavy-handed when you bark at us like that? Maybe I did go off a bit half-cocked.......

ASM #5 Green Spidey:

Woody I joined the boards for serious discussions on comics not this kind of thing. I'm logging off.

FONT VARIATIONS Here's the latest summary for JIM. I'll do TTA later in the week: My posts will quieten down a bit from tomorrow - back to work......

....and a great video:

Hi Steve, if you get a chance, could you take a look at this thread and see what you think? Early Marvel Price Font Variants I'm hoping there maybe someone in this thread who could help inform mine Cheers, Steve

Check out this old thread I found - especially the photos on page 5: Sparta There may be some board members here who could help us. I'll drop a post there.

The cents then pence white box hypothesis seems entirely plausible. However, do we know of any "non-boxed" pence copies? Different fonts: absolutely why? Using a very modern example, I understand WD no.1 has some cover text in black then white; both considered "first prints". Another inexplicable printing change (?) perhaps these are just anomalies / errors? CGC - with all respect I doubt they'll know. They call pence copies "UK editions" and I don't think anybody has ever noticed the font or indicia differences until you and I did. Isn't it ironic that our hobby has so much content expertise yet very few of us know much about the printing techniques of the past. The TTA 16 scans I posted earlier in this thread show a 9d without a white box Ewan. I don't expect CGC to know themselves, I'm more hoping that the thought that they might not know what printing they are grading might intrigue them enough to go looking. They must have hot lines to key industry figures that we don't. We'll see. I agree with you on the lack of historic knowledge though. I bet it's out there but maybe no one has asked the right questions. I'm always surprised by how little some in the hobby care about this kind of thing. I love comics. But I'm also really fascinated by how they were made and by the discovery of variations which pose the type of questions we're raising here. Many would say 'who cares' that there are different price fonts. I'm just glad I've found one or more people who share my interest. So keep posting Ewan !

I've sent a question to CGC via their 'contact us' link. Will let you know if I get a response....

Now understood - many thanks for taking the time to explain that So on balance of probability the boxed cents are printed after; not necessarily "2nd prints" (as we know them) but printed second... However, unboxed cents and pence have no such determination Yes, thanks aman619 for the further explanation - understanding the printing process really helps this thread. I tried to find a video on Youtube but couldn't find one that made it as clear as your description. Cheers. In pictures, based on this information, the three examples below show that the first 'no white box' 10c copy would have been printed first, then the two 'white box' versions second / third. So they could all be first print run copies, if the changes for the second and third copies were done at the time on the US presses. That said, if we look at the two below, and assume that they were done as part of the US first print run, why would they change a 10c price box to another 10c price box in a different font? The answer may be connected to which has a T&P indicia line, but I haven't got enough examples to inform this. If not, could it indicate that the copies were printed elsewhere in a country with cents as its currency (Australia / Canada)? They could have been sent the plain white box negatives and then added their own prices? Similarly, why would these two be produced as part of the same print run in the US?: Again, the prices are the same but in different fonts. I think we're getting somewhere with this one, but we need an industry expert to shed some light on it. CGC differentiate 9d copies when grading from 10c copies. If we say to them that two different font / price box copies exist for the same 10c comic, how can they grade and encapsulate either as a first print with this question mark hanging? I'm a UK based newbie - who could we pose this to at CGC for their thoughts?