17 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Thanks Roy for that uncharacteristically brief opinion! 

@Redshade - what say thou? 

Hi Marwood, thanks for the call out.

When I win the lottery I am going to buy thousands and thousands of 60s American comics with the T&P stamp on them and I wouldn't worry too much about condition.

When I visit ebay and see an old beat up comic with the black stamps on them I always go into nostalgia mode and think to myself "I used to have that comic" and have visions of the piles of books that I used to own as a child.

This is all down to personal preference because, let's face it who wouldn't want to be eight again?

As far as I understand the general market then yes I would say that they are less desirable to the average collector and accordingly sell for less than virgin covers.

Now where did I put my lottery numbers?

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Yes, the cents version has a printed month but still a handwritten issue number. The suggestion is (and I've seen it noted a few times down the years) that there is a mechanically printed issue number copy. If there is, I've never seen one, cents or pence.

I couldn't find any with a printed number other than the modern reprints.

Pedants Corner : I've just noticed that they have missed out an apostrophe in the blurb at bottom left.

I just googled and found this. A handwritten 60 with a printed month.

1 hour ago, Marwood & I said:

Regarding Archie, I ordered this book which came today:

 

He looks a bit fed up doesn't he? Probably trying to work out why Miller Marvel Indicia books exist 

Archie is not my territory, so I'm learning with the rest of you. It certainly looks like a first printing pence variant of the US original, rather than a reprint. If we compare it to  a cents copy from eBay...

  

 

...the only difference is the 9d price:

 

The indicia is as you would expect, the US version stating 10c / printed in the USA etc:

 

The date is interesting - April 1960. Marvels first printed pence priced book is May 1960, Charltons is April so we can see a pattern. All titles seem to have Thorpe & Porter stamped copies for 1959 through to early 1960 then pence printed prices begin. Not sure who the importer is here - there is no additional indicia data to show whether it's T&P, L Miller or someone else.

I've seen a good few examples on eBay so, probably, I'll begin documenting them as I have done for Marvel, DC and Charlton. So do post any examples you find so I can add them to the list. Cost might be a barrier here - they seem quite expensive.

I think there is so much we still don't know here. I'd love a historian to pick up the 1959/1960 period and plot who imported what under what terms. 

The Charlton thread is coming tomorrow guys, all being well, so keep em peeled. I think you're going to like it 

Nice catch there Marwood.

The four Archie comics in my previous post all seem to be from 1960 too so we could possibly be looking at a very short window when these were produced.

Jon McClure's article in Overstreet 40 (where Overstreet finally acknowledges that the pence copies were in fact variants) just has a small paragraph or two under Archie where he states that there were Canadian variants but absolutely no mention of any pence Archie variants. So the hunt is on.

Here are a few pence variants I just found on ebay. They are all from a dealer's site and do seem a tad expensive at from between £14.95 and £19.95 for even these low grades but as this market is new to me I am probably wrong.

29 minutes ago, rakehell said:

Whizzer, I hadn't seen one either. Been collecting since the early 70's in the US & early 90's in Penceland & I only spotted these in the last few days. I've had a bit of a root around & they're the only three I've managed to find (possibly because they all happen to be currently up on Ebay). All three from consecutive months in 1960, everything 1961 or later with a T&P stamp, so it's looking like a very limited thing.

 

Redshade, I don't think these are reprints. Mainly because I found this yesterday & it's definitely a reprint...

It has the characteristics of most other UK reprints: squarebound, slightly different size, black & white & red interior...

& this line instead of a proper indicia...

To be fair, I haven't seen any interior shots of the three I found earlier, so I could just be talking out of my donut. We await Marwood's postman.

 

Rakehell.

This last photo of yours, as you quite rightly say,  IS a reprint of course with a UK publisher and printer clearly indicated (GG Swan as mentioned in my last post).

The "9d" issues you showed earlier ARE variants printed and published in the US with the original US indicias.

My post wasn't aimed at you but at those who periodically ask how to tell the difference between a variant and a reprint.

Cheers.

I see from my Denis Gifford Catalogue of British Comics that GG Swan reprinted Archie content for the UK market from 1950 to 1953 and then Thorpe and Porter from 1953 onwards with no finish date given.

I have also seen Australian pence reprint issues.

So to be clear, these are NOT what we are looking for in this forum. It is specifically USA printed Pence variants that we are looking for.

I'm sure that Marwood will correct me should I err.

Hello Rakehell. welcome to the forum. Now that you've brought it to our attention we'll all be seeing Archie pence issues in our sleep.

But yes, I have seen Archie pence issues before and some Dell and probably others that I can't recall.

And yes, Marwood's work is awe inspiring and not just the vast amounts of research. The technical stuff is way beyond anything that I am capable of vis-a-vis rearranging them all into folders like that.

Show us any more you find. Perhaps Marwood (our glorious Leader) could start another non DC/Marvel thread?

On 2/13/2018 at 8:04 PM, tv horror said:

Here's a question for you, other than keys do you think that it would be cheaper to collect U.K Silver age runs? I'm feeling like it would be nice to start collecting the Astonish Suspense Strange lines as I've always loved their covers.  

At the risk of sounding twee the old advice about collecting what you like is the best way to go.

Whilst the print run of pence variants was much smaller than the cents run this scarcity has not in the past translated into higher prices. The pence copies have traditionally sold for 50% - 70% of the cost of their US counterparts. This may be that for various reasons higher grade copies of pence variants are very scarce and I think that in higher grade then they would tend towards nearer the cents prices.

I think Pence copies will be selling for close to, or in some cases, above their cents counterparts, relatively soon.

Part of the stigma was that collectors, certainly those in the US, always assumed these to be UK reprints printed over here after US versions. Those of us old enough to remember the originals know that this is not the case.

This view has been rectified over the years and  the fact that these were printed in the US (sometimes in Canada!) along with the cents copies with the same ads and indicias has long been common knowledge.

This was  "officially " endorsed by Overstreet who acknowledged that these  were printed simultaneously with the US Editions & are now   officially considered "VARIANT" Originals (See Overstreet #41 Article on pages 1010-1038).

I do not have the current (2017) Overstreet but am reliably informed that "Overstreet finally notated pence copies as 1st Print variants of cents copies, in the 2017 Overstreet".

So, lower grade pence copies can still be had for less than similar grade cents copies with higher grade pence copies fetching nearer the cents price. I think that in a few years near parity will be the norm.  

4 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

Poor DC. Nobody loves them 

The CBPG site actually has a separate summary page on them which I didn't see at first:

http://www.comicpriceguide.co.uk/lists.php?id=24

 

 

That's a quest to be sure hunting down all those. Is that where you are Marwood, is that why you rushed off so abruptly yesterday?

4 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Amazing. We've all been in the game for over 100 years between us and have never seen them!

No, not that game Ken 

I can add another 50+ years to the total.

If that GL book went for £113 then trying to track down (and afford) the full set is going to be quite a task and if like the Double Double's the same cover was used with different interiors an almost impossible task to track down all the variants.

Now what is my next project going to be? A full set of these or the quest for the 838 DC pence copies?

11 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Didn't take long @Redshade !

How cool is this! It sold for £113 on eBay:

  

 

The eBay listing says:

Green Lantern Annual c1967

This is an unusual annual and there is an interesting write up about it on Duncan McAlpine's Comic Book Price Guide website. There is no indication as to who published the book and no price printed. No introductory text. It is essentially six original 1960s DC Comics bound up as a hardback book. The choice of the comics appears to be random and it seems that from one of these annuals to the next there were some the same, but different comics.

This particular "annual" contains the following comics:

Green Lantern #20 - Mar 1967

Tomahawk #110 - Jun 1967

Brave and the Bold #69 - Jan 1967

House of Mystery #161 - Sep 1966

Batman #160 - Mar 1967

Superboy #136 - Mar 1967 

 

So is it a UK book or a US import? No price on it

@Ken Aldred Ken - have you ever seen these on your travels?

I'll stick my neck out here and say that they were most likely UK produced, it does mention in the Price Guide piece that sometimes the covers had a T&P pence stamp. Perhaps T&P  were  the "Double Double" people. Perhaps the hardcovers were a tryout and they subsequently went with the paper cover as being cheaper/quicker to manufacture.

10 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Excellent! I like being proven wrong when new things are discovered. I've never seen these either. I wonder if people see them and just assume they are 'regular' reprint annuals as opposed to books made from remaindered copies?

Here's some pics I managed to find from eBay - they prove your dreams were real Redshade - hard backs and covers! 

    

 

Here's the Green Lantern:

Does that look like the one from your dreams?

I have to say, Duncan deserves huge respect for his endeavours down the years. And humble of him to admit not knowing about them. I've no idea where he gets the prices from and I suspect he is less focused on this kind of stuff now. I know he does other things as well as UK comic research (check out his youtube videos) and we emailed each other briefly regarding my pence research a few years back. He was extremely positive / interested for a spell and then I never heard back. Maybe I should try him again.

Anyway, good intervention there Stephen. Something new to look for now! I'll see if I can find interior shots of the Green Lantern.

Keep them coming!

Any idea who this Peter Hansen chap is that Duncan references. All I can find is a comic artist of that name from the 40s which is surely a different person.

4 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Excellent! I like being proven wrong when new things are discovered. I've never seen these either. I wonder if people see them and just assume they are 'regular' reprint annuals as opposed to books made from remaindered copies?

Here's some pics I managed to find from eBay - they prove your dreams were real Redshade - hard backs and covers! 

    

 

Here's the Green Lantern:

Does that look like the one from your dreams?

I have to say, Duncan deserves huge respect for his endeavours down the years. And humble of him to admit not knowing about them. I've no idea where he gets the prices from and I suspect he is less focused on this kind of stuff now. I know he does other things as well as UK comic research (check out his youtube videos) and we emailed each other briefly regarding my pence research a few years back. He was extremely positive / interested for a spell and then I never heard back. Maybe I should try him again.

Anyway, good intervention there Stephen. Something new to look for now! I'll see if I can find interior shots of the Green Lantern.

Keep them coming!

Wow, good work in finding these.

My memory (wrong as it now turns out) of the Green Lantern was that it was a green cover but that is probably just word association.

I do remember that the cropping of these comics was more noticeable when the covers were included.

The one I vividly remember is a Green Lantern Annual, although no mention of that specific one is mentioned here.

It seems as if Duncan MacAlpine hadn't known about these until it was brought to his attention in 2015 so I wonder where he gets his prices from?

Total value for all issues of this title listed:

Note: some PR issues may have no value. Selected issues in FN, VF or VF/NM may not exist in some titles.

Just now, Redshade said:

I just found this :

http://www.comicpriceguide.co.uk/uk_comic.php

 

Sorry the link doesn't go to the page I wanted. Here's a cut and paste of the text.  I found it by google searching "uk annual with remaindered comics". There is a photo which doesn't copy.

ATOM ANNUAL

1 hour ago, Marwood & I said:

I think the presence of covers was a beautiful dream Redshade. From what I understand, T&P used remaindered copies to make these books up. They stripped them of their covers, returned the covers under the sale or return policy, and then cheekily repackaged the inners to make an extra buck. Quite a good idea really, if you overlook the legalities 

I've never seen one with a hard cover either. Vivid dreams you have Redshade. Vivid dreams.....

 

I just found this :

http://www.comicpriceguide.co.uk/uk_comic.php

On 11/18/2017 at 2:10 PM, Marwood & I said:

 

I told him not to of course, but Marwood insisted on buying this tatty 'Double Double' book at the last London Comic Fair.

 

"I want to see what's inside", he said with a childish harrumph. Fair enough.

The funny thing with these books is that the contents can differ for the same issue. This copy has the following four DC books crudely assembled:

1. Adventure Comics #350
2. Aquaman #28
3. Worlds Finest #176
4. Wonder Woman #163

The books are remaindered originals, stripped of their covers and placed (apparently illegally if you Googleate the history) in the crummiest cover you could muster. The pence price is the reason for the post here. Difficult to agree on these. They're not reprints, but not variants as the covers are unique to the collected version. A fun oddity from our past. Some have Marvel books in them too! Cheeky sods Thorpe & Porter, weren't they 

 

Chin chin! 

I remember purchasing these in the late 60s. There were also some with hard covers, similar to the  a British annuals.

I may be a doddering old fool but I remember these as having the covers included.

I have never seen one since on ebay or elsewhere. Perhaps I dreamt it all?

4 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Keep it Redshade, keep it! There's only another 838 more to collect and then you've got the set! 

There is no way I want to go down that road.

I won't pretend that I didn't think of it, after all they're all only bronze age so should be very easy to pick up in high grade and very cheaply, no?

I read this post a few weeks ago being steered here by Marwood's explanation of "signatures".

And blow me down with a feather if I didn't see one of these whilst scrolling through ebay and bought it on impulse.

It has normal wear and slight discolouration of staples so is not a hot-shot high grade, perhaps a Very Good with a "value" of only a few dollars.

Now I don't know what to do with it, I'm a Marvel collector. Anyone want it?

Marwood. Got it. Thank you.

4 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Thanks for the kind words Gaard! If you have signatures turned on, there are links to my DC and Miller Pence threads and my Font Variant thread just under the pretty picture. You might enjoy those too. Charlton is next up. It's going to knock the Marvel one for six(d) 

Hi Marwood. Sorry to bother you again but as you are online at the moment could you explain to this old duffer how to access/activate this "signatures" thingy?

3 hours ago, Gaard said:

I just wanted you to know that even though I have nothing to contribute, I find this subject matter fascinating. Thanks for the obviously tedious work.

Hi Gaard.

Thank you for your kind comments (even if they weren't meant for me).

I  don't mind researching comics at all.

As a proponent of the hobby I enjoy it very much.

When things get tedious, then that is the time to start a different hobby.

Regards.

Redshade.

On 1/6/2018 at 10:53 PM, Marwood & I said:

 

Cheers Mike / Mark, thanks for your thoughts 

I do know they didn't run already printed sheets through and overwrote them, but I'm not an expert. Aman619 knows a lot about the printing process, hence my earlier call out to him, and I hope he'll dive in at some point. He did explain it all to me once, but I can't find it. It might be in the font variation thread somewhere.

Liz - like the new avatar. Very sedate. I will miss the old boy though - remember this one from last year?:

 

Not enough mucking about in 2018 so far for my liking. First Barry sighting though 

On the subject of the printing process, which has always interested me, I picked up this pack of an old Alan Class reprint from 1962. The pictures aren't the best, but you should see 'Out of This World' #21 along with the four original cover plates plus COA signed by Alan Class himself (he's still going strong):

Looking at the plates you can kind of see how it was done, with a fairly crude scraping out of the plate in places where no ink was wanted. It's a cool thing and a pence copy (albeit not a Marvel reprint, but it's my thread and I'll post what I like in it)

Anyway, let's see if the printing experts chip in soon. All good fun 

Not long until Bobby's thread now. Keep 'em peeled.....

But surely mate this IS a reprint