Redshade

5 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

It's Jon's article / market report, with pence input from me - should be in the next issue, due out in July I think. 

My own current preference for CGC labels would be:

• First Printing UK Priced Variant 
• First Printing Canadian Priced Variant 
• First Printing Australian Priced Variant

 

 

If you don't mind me saying so Steve I think "First Printing UK Priced Variant" is just as imprecise and ambiguous as "UK Edition" and could lend itself to similar misinterpretation.

18 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Ben Noble and I collaborated with Jon late last year on an update to his Overstreet article and we agreed upon revised titles, noting that 'Type 1a' didn't jump off the page as a recognisable descriptor. You should see reference to it in his next Overstreet report and it should also include a summary from me on the pence numbers for the seven known publishers 

I agree that "Type 1a" on its own doesn't sound particularly inspired but perhaps using the qualifiers in parentheses that I noted above would make a more descriptive title ? EDIT: I mean as a title on CGC slabbed books.

I look forward to reading your article Steve. Which edition of Overstreet will it appear in (I only buy one every few years)?

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

A man after my own heart. The original title to this thread was actually "Marvel First Printing Pence Priced Variants". I got admin to change it as it just seemed to go on too long. The title, not the thread that is 

It seems that CGC is somewhat behind the curve in acknowledging  these variants because as long ago as 2010 these were recognised in Overstreet  40 when Senior Overstreet Advisor Jon McClure introduced the term “Type 1A Price Variant” in his article “A History of Publisher Experimentation and Variant Comic Books”:

" Type 1a Variants: Cover Price Variants intended for foreign distribution with limited regional distribution, published simultaneously with standard or regular editions. The indicia and all aspects of the book, except for the cover price and sometimes the company logo, are identical to regular U.S. editions. One example is the Marvel Pence Price Variants, with the Marvel All-Colour Comics cover banners. Other examples include the Canadian Gold Key and Whitman Cover Price Variants".

Although "Type 1a variant (UK)" or "Type 1a variant (Pence)" both sound a little clunky they would be my preferred choice of nomenclature.

16 minutes ago, bc said:

That took the last of my brain juice today.

Time to refill the thinker with a pint (or four)

 

Cheers!

I've just opened a bottle of something red (and cheap) myself.

I do not hold any real malice towards Matt/CGC and agree that they do a tremendous job.

Perhaps after a few more sips any further observations of mine will be a tad more mellow.

3 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Afternoon 

Scroll back a few posts and you'll find a debate concerning the merits of my calling the pence books in this thread "First Printing Pence Priced Variants". I've never been a fan of CGC's "U.K. Edition" label approach as it does not, in my opinion, adequately identify the fact that the books are first printing variants and not later reprints with repackaged content for the UK market.

To further illustrate, and building on Rakehells earlier post, here are four books that CGC have labelled as "U.K. Editions":

The first two are first printing price variants - one Marvel, one DC - both produced concurrently in the US with their US priced counterparts:

 

The next two are reprints - books that were made in the UK, with repackaged US content:

  

 

To call all four books "UK Editions" muddies the waters as it gives the impression that they are all the same thing which we know they are not. I would prefer to see CGC use label descriptions that highlight the key differences so that any lingering confusion is removed and the two separate entities are promoted as they should be.

As readers of my US Price Font thread will know, I contacted CGC recently about the known variations in cents fonts for some early US marvels and Matt Nelson replied saying that he would look into them. In his reply, and I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning it here (as all debate can only help draw out the answer, if there is one), he said that CGC graders had identified that the "ink saturation, page quality and overall ageing effects of those books [the pence copies] clearly contrast with the US editions". Matt advised that CGC were trying to identify if anyone from Sparta, or any industry contacts, could shed any light as to why this should be so.

There are a number of reasons why the early pence books may have a better page / ink quality and we've discussed them in this thread. There has been speculation in the past that maybe it is because they were produced first. This further assessment from CGC doesn't mean that they were of course - it may be they were produced separately or even, contrary to popular opinion, elsewhere.  But CGC graders themselves have identified a difference, and they handle more books than most, so it's not something that can be ignored. 

I hope that they will be able to find out information about this and that maybe we will get an answer that settles this long running question. If they are successful, and can promote a final, common understanding of the production order, my next step will be to see if I can convince them to change their labelling. 

In the meantime, just a few more books needed before I hit you all with the final Thorpe & Porter indicia research. So much for me saying there was "nothing left to report" in this thread, a few months ago! 

Evening Steve. The four books you show here should make Matt/CGC take another look at all your work about this subject. It's probably my being an old cynic which leads me to the conclusion that rather than admit ignorance on the matter that Matt/CGC are coming on all pompous and trying to blind us with their "expertise".

"ink saturation, page quality and overall ageing effects of those books [the pence copies] clearly contrast with the US editions"

4 hours ago, rakehell said:

Sgt Fury #1

Also on Ebay now:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sgt-Fury-and-his-Howling-Commandos-comic-1-May-1963-Marvel-GD-phil-comics/362624362634?hash=item546e18a88a:g:kuEAAOSw6IlcuKU~

Can everyone tell I'm skiving at work...

I have used this dealer before and can recommend him. He is a great bloke and a credit to eBay.

2 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Ha! And you've done your profile page too! Show off 

I did that accidentally whilst trying to upload the image to my avatar, just before I asked for assistance.

10 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Awesome @Redshade when you upload the image, same as you did this time, there is a "crop" feature before  it becomes official and it you hit "done".... 

You could do it again and when the "crop" feature comes up, hover you mouse cursor over the dotted lines in the pic, now in these dotted lines will be slightly bigger circles on the corners and in the middle, hover over those until it gives you opposite facing "arrows" instead of just your normal one-way arrow on your mouse cursor

when you get double the arrow click and drag and you can adjust the box size, as what is inside these dotted lines is what will appear as your profile pic....

Just if you want   

Now I feel a migraine coming on. I think that I'll quit whilst I am ahead. Where's my bottle of claret*?

*(Cheap supermarket Bordeaux).

9 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

First save that picture to your computer where you can find it easily to upload, or better yet when you right click on the photo, hit save image as, a screen pops up, scroll on the left of that screen until you get to desktop, click desktop, name the file, and hit save...

Then log in here go to you profile by clicking on your name in the upper right corner and choosing "profile." then when you get to profile, hover over the smaller profile pic box and click on it, and click on upload from computer then scroll on the left of the page that pops up to get to desktop, click on desktop, find the file you named and click on it then hit the "save" button...

should work  

Thank you muchly Mr Adam. I have never found anything online so easy to follow.

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I joined the GCD last year and told them I had five thousand images to upload. And not just pence copies. They allowed me to post one image at a time which I had to wait for authorisation on. Then they said I had categorised it wrong. Then they argued among themselves about the classification. Then they asked me to crop all images. So I gave up, as it was too much like hard work. And I never heard from them again. Great site, great endeavour, and definitely one I'd want to support, but too hard to engage with clunky unintuitive software that I just couldn't get to grips with. Plus I personally disagree with cropping images - I feel you should see the full comic - and some of their descriptors.

There's a chap here who takes all the images I post in my threads and uploads them anyway. So it shouldn't be too long before they appear. 

 

That sounds like the kind of soul destroying venture that has caused me more than once to threaten to throw my laptop out of the window. I am self taught and did not buy my first PC until after I'd retired. I remember one frustrating weekend I spent trying to place an avatar on this very site that actually had me weeping tears of frustration.

One goes online for help which is worse than useless. None of the instructions found ever match up to what I find on my computer.

This is the image that I have tried to upload as my avatar so if any passing nine year old could help I'd be very grateful.

22 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm following this thread just to see what the CGC chaps come up with re the font variations Steve.

In passing I noticed that the Grand Comics Database does not yet have images of the two pence variants that you show above, JIM nos 64 and 65.

I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to effect such an undertaking but perhaps you or someone else on here could apprise the GCD people of the existence of said issues?

Well it's three o'clock in the morning and I still can't get to sleep. What's the saying? "Insomnia ain't what it used to be". Or perhaps not?

Steve I'll be interested in the reply, if any, that you receive regarding this query.

I agree as has been stated elsewhere that if a publisher gives a job to a printer to produce 200,000 copies of a comic and the run starts late in the day and they stop the presses and continue in the morning that they are all first prints.

But, there is no way that the shift that starts in the morning will just arbitrarily change the font on the price box. I mean no way.

The only possible explanation that would satisfy me is that the original printing company sub-contracted the printing plates/stats (or whatever method was used) to another print shop and that the original plates were sans price which was added by the various sub-contractors.

So to my way of thinking all these comics were part of the same contract between the publisher and the printer(s) and are therefore all first editions.

Just my tuppence-worth.

2 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I've called @rakehell Stephen when he's Robert haven't I Stephen 

I did wonder about that.

3 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I keep telling you Stephen, bring Honey Nut Loops or you're off the gig mate 

I'm a diabetic so have to stay away from sugar confections. Its a boring Muesli for me I'm afraid although I do get the fry-up on weekends.

9 hours ago, rakehell said:

First, sfcityduck, thanks for keeping it going.

Second, nitpicking alert!

The important thing to note about the indicias of these books, whether or not they have a T&P or L. Miller blurb, is that they all indicate the sale price in US currency, not UK currency. For pence priced variants, there exists no indicia which states, "sale price 9d per issue." This is how they vary from their siblings with 10c on the cover. This is also why I'm not comfortable calling them "UK editions" (more on this below). Again, that's me picking nits.

Also, when considering these comics, Thorpe & Porter were a distributor, not a publisher. The Classics Illustrated editions you refer to were printed in the UK after the US editions were released. In this case, Thorpe & Porter acted as publisher and distributor.

These books are part of the same edition, because they were all printed in the same run. Only the covers differ, requiring a pause in printing to change the price point.

This:

This:

And this:

all came off the same press at the same time, differing only in price point. They are all "first edition" copies of Star Wars #2. The same process resulted in the change from 30c to 35c to 12p, though not necessarily in that order.

On reflection, I guess what I'm saying is that these are all variants within an edition.

The UK edition of Star Wars #2 looks like this:

printed and published in the UK six months after the first edition by Marvel UK, a subsidiary of Marvel Comics.

Again, I know I'm nitpicking. But we all know that this hobby is filled to the rafters with folk who focus a little too closely on the small stuff.

Welcome to our rabbit hole. It's a cozy place to hang out if you don't mind Coco Puffs all over the place.

An excellent post rakehell and one which admirably describes the difference between a US published pence copy variant and the later UK reprints. All of the first three Star Wars variants that you show, the 30c, 35c and the 12p are on the Grand Comics Database side by side in the US section. The 10p Star Wars Weekly was a UK publication and is, quite rightly, featured in the foreign section of the GCD.

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I haven't gotten around to asking him yet actually Stephen. However, if the book follows the pattern of it's January to April peers, it will have the Thorpe & Porter indicia in both cents and pence copies anyway so there'll be no way of knowing which it was 'supposed' to be. Remember, these early pence books retained the cover month too.

Coincidentally I have some indicia research pending which will show all the books which have T&P details in both cents and pence copies - a work in progress summary below if you can read it! (note I haven't moved JIM #65 to the 'in scope' column yet either):

 

Here's a cents copy of a JIM #65 indicia with the T&P in evidence:

  

 

I haven't gone as far as checking the US price font variations yet though:

 

Be funny is one doesn't have it wouldn't it.....

 

I did not know that Steve (about the T&P indicias being on cents copies for those few months).

It's interesting that the few priceless copies shown do not have a T&P rubber price stamp indicating perhaps that these were US issues.

7 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

The chap from Denmark who found the JIM #65 pence copy also posted a copy of TTA #16 with no cover price:

I find that absolutely thrilling. What a brilliant thing 

You can read about it here where he posted it - scroll to the bottom of the page to the comments section:

https://rarecomics.wordpress.com/

I thought the JIM #65 9d might get a little more attention here than it did (usual thanks to Bob and Maurice for noticing) - but there you go. The CGC boards have by far the best free format available to share information, and I'm grateful for it. But I do wish sometimes that some of the people who love what I love, posting elsewhere, were members here. 

 Steve that is an astonishing  thing indeed.

I wonder what the indicia says, ie is this a cents copy with the price missed off or a pence copy sans price?

4 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

On the subject of numbers, those following this thread from the start will be aware of my 'missing list'. This was a list of books for which I believed an as yet undiscovered pence copy may have existed. Now that I have completed the L Miller indicia picture, the comparative gap analysis (i.e. the date scenarios where groups of books all miss the same titles) and the price font analysis, I'm fairly confident that there is only one potential pence book left to discover now. That book is Battle #70. It's the last issue in the title, so the odds should be stacked against it, but so is Wyatt Earp #29 and that has a pence copy. It has both 'fat' and 'tall' cents font copies, hence my belief that a pence copy may exist. 

So from this point, the missing list is officially retired.

If I'm right, and Battle #70 surfaces, the number of Marvel comics with pence printed prices will increase and then remain at 3,018. To recap, the current 3,017 figure assumes:

• I haven't made any further mistakes in the calculations on my tracking spreadsheet (they've recently been checked by a friend, hence the one book reduction)
• I haven't missed any titles
• The analysis as to why certain early books will not be found is robust

As with the recent Marvel Super Heroes find, there is always a chance that a further later dated book may appear but I think that was a one off. Only time will tell of course. The 3,017 by the way only covers standard comic size books. It excludes magazines, Treasury Editions (which I've summarised earlier in the thread) and oversize books. 

That being the case, there isn't much left to report on now. I've tried to cover every unique aspect of pence books, not only just what exists, and tried to make it entertaining on route. So this thread will likely dry up now as I have nothing left to post! 

I hope those of you that joined in found it interesting and I'm grateful for your input. 

My next task is to load all the missing images up to the GCD. I would have liked to post them here but the software doesn't lend itself to doing it in the structured manner I'd like. So keep an eye on the GCD next year, and you'll start to see them all appear.

In the meantime, I'll only post in this thread now if someone asks a question or if I get a particularly nice new copy to show off. Or of course if I or someone else finds a new book!

Never say never 

Cheers, Steve 

I've said it before Steve but it's worth saying again: I am in awe of the time and effort it must have taken to do all the research for these pence threads of yours. Good luck with your uploading to the GCD, it would've been a shame not to publish these somewhere. Kind regards. Stephen,

20 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Found another. So two 10d copies, one with a 6 and one with a 9:

@Redshade, have you ever seen an official explanation for the numbers in the top half of the price stamp? I wondered whether they signified months, or perhaps different distribution areas? Oddly enough, I've never done too much digging on it.

I never thought about different distribution areas being the reason for the header number. I always assumed(rightly or wrongly) that they were for individual operatives each with their own identifiable stamp, but no I have not looked into it before and neither have I ever seen any explanations or answers as to why this was done.

This is not a pence variant query per se but I couldn't think of anywhere else to put it that would ensure that is was seen by our few UK posters. Why the different T&P price stamps 9d and 10d?  Is this just a case/shipment getting misplaced in the warehouse or were there 2nd printings or something else?  Apologies to Marwood for hijacking his post (I can delete if need be Steve).                                                                                

Thanks Steve.

I didn't know that.

Post deleted.

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Cheers Stephen. It's not as hard as it looks, once you get the hang of it. I agree about the labels - the spreadsheet ones are temporary until I make my mind up. If I drop down dead, I want whoever finds them to know they're special 

Name me as  beneficiary mate. I'll look after them.

3 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Another Miller addition - Gunsmoke Western #62 

 

No 6d cover stamp this time, but the indicia serves as confirmation:

 

Updated chart:

 

Still no sign of Wyatt....

 

Decided I didn't like the customised stickers in the mylites (see previous posts), so have opted for a temporary tomb instead while I make my mind up:

  

 

I could well be the only person in the world trying to track these.....

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hi Steve.

I think those labels are a great idea.

I'm not sure about showing the front cover when we can already see it but the label of the interior indicias is a great idea as it identifies the comic as a Miller variant without having to open the bag and comic. I'm not convinced that the spreadsheet label adds anything to the front cover, maybe on the back?

I have to say once again that your skills in organising the photos into nice sets and of making spreadsheets leaves me in awe.

10 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

That is frustrating - after I get to comic books, if I try parachute, paratroop, paratroops, it flips me into all categories.  Books/Magazines is one of them, but the comic book subcategory disappears.  I don't know if that means the search doesn't work, or there are no comic books under those search terms.

I think it must be the latter. Perhaps try and be less specific with broader searches such as "war" or "WWII" or some such?