Redshade

Oh it appears that someone took exception to my CBCS posts and the mods have removed my photos for soliciting for sale in a non-sales post, which I was not but there you go.

On 12/11/2021 at 1:52 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Not at all, all of us here are far too astute to blunder into such a clumsily laid elephant trap.

Do you know, or does anyone else know, how much it sold for the last time around?

Yup, you got me.

Sorry Albert I don't know how much it sold for.

On 12/11/2021 at 9:55 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

That's twice you've done that now Stephen 
 

Done what mate? I hope that I haven't inadvertantly upset you in some way. That was not my intention.

Editions? Yes I totally agree that this could/should be clarified.

I was not postulating that the CBCS wording was phrased to such an extent that it would not benefit from revision.

The re/prints dichotomy is exactly as it appears on the slabs.

I expect that they are always amenable to further recommendations.

I was not suggesting that CBCS is perfect, merely reporting that they seem to be making more of an effort than CGC at the moment.

On 12/10/2021 at 11:56 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

What are the odds against that, eh?

I don't know if you are being playful here Albert but I'll bite.

It's oviously the same issue with the loose page(s) tucked in and the fold at the top left being flattened out.

So? Did I fall for it?

On 12/10/2021 at 11:12 PM, Redshade said:

Oo-er, hark at that. 'Oo rattled 'er cage?

Forgetting for a moment the "UK Edition" designation (which, I am hazarding a guess is used here as a synonym for "comic", or is that a speculation too far?). All the reprint info is on the back of the labels.

The text is too blurry to read because the case stops the comic from lying flat on the copying plate so I won't bother trying to photocopy the rear labels. I suppose that I'm going to have to dig them out again and transcribe the info here. Gissa min.

 

The information on the back labels whilst not being thoroughly indicative of what is exactly reprinted gives enough information so as to enable the searcher to discover precisely what they need to know and is a massive leap forward from CGC's attempts (I mean no disrespect to CGC here, I am merely explaining where we are at currently). As an addendum the information given by CBCS is not even present in the GCD so CBCS seems to have done its research. I had a very vague hope, to no avail it would seem, that showing these pieces might induce CGC to get its finger out and bring forward any comments that they are planning to make.

Text on rear labels reproduced verbatim :

Sinister Tales 23.

Prints Tales of Suspense 39. World of Fantasy #7, 12, 14, 17 & Tales to Astonish #48 in black and white.

Mystic 54.

Prints Avengers #1. Spellbound #24, #25, #29 & #31 in black and white.

Creepy Worlds 32.

Reprints Fantastic Four #1, Journey into Mystery #84, #86, Strange Tales #49, Tales to Astonish #34. #40 & Amazing Adult Fantasy 11 in black and white.

Creepy Worlds 35.

Prints Fantastic Four #3, and stories from Journey into Mystery #91, #92 & #93, Mystical Tales #2, Strange Tales #107 & Tales to Astonish #41 in black and white.

On 12/10/2021 at 8:11 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

The CBCS labels shown are no good either. They also say "first appearance" and I don't see the required 'reprint' word anywhere. They make no attempt to date them, and also call the books "UK Editions". In the comic industry, we call a book a Direct Edition to differentiate it from a Newsstand Edition. We call a book a Deluxe Edition to differentiate it from a regular edition. What are we differentiating these books from? They are UK publications. The use of the word 'edition' is unnecessary and, given how it is used elsewhere in the industry, misleading. The books are, at least, titled correctly. 

 

Oo-er, hark at that. 'Oo rattled 'er cage?

Forgetting for a moment the "UK Edition" designation (which, I am hazarding a guess is used here as a synonym for "comic", or is that a speculation too far?). All the reprint info is on the back of the labels.

The text is too blurry to read because the case stops the comic from lying flat on the copying plate so I won't bother trying to photocopy the rear labels. I suppose that I'm going to have to dig them out again and transcribe the info here. Gissa min.

The chap selling the Mystic 40 has reached out to the watchers of the item offering a 3% discount.

He has also changed the description to read "mis-labelled".

I'll try and put up some pictures but my eBay screen has not been playing properly for a few days and the text is blown up and to the left. (I've tried adjusting screen size).

On 12/6/2021 at 12:56 PM, Redshade said:

Perhaps you are getting too worked up Steve. Let's remind everyone that M40 is NOT a reprint of TTA13. M40 reprints ONE STORY from TTA13.

Mystic 40 and Tales to Astonish 13 Indices from GCD.
All stories in M40 are reprint stories from various US publications.

TTA 13 Index.

I Challenged... Groot! the Monster from Planet X. (7 pages).

Special Sale (text story). (2 pages).

I Found the Abominable Snowman. (6 pages).

My Friend is... Not Quite Human. (5 pages).

I Found the Hidden World! (5 pages).

Mystic 40 Index.

I Challenged... Groot! The Monster From Planet X. (7 pages).

(The Shark People). (8 pages).

Doctor of Crime. (7 pages).

White Birds of Death! (8 pages).

Third Grave on the Right... (4 pages).

Two Frightened People! (5 pages).

Davey and His Dame. (4 pages).

Too Timid to Live. (5 pages).

On 12/6/2021 at 12:36 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm arguing against the use of superfluous wording that only adds confusion. Mystic #40 is itself, and the only additional label comment it needs is to state that it reprints TTA#13.  CGC can state the country origin if they want to. "Published in / for the UK market", for example, is unambiguous. "UK Edition" however, is. The 'UK Edition' of what?

Perhaps you are getting too worked up Steve. Let's remind everyone that M40 is NOT a reprint of TTA13. M40 reprints ONE STORY from TTA13.

On 11/24/2021 at 5:38 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

It might be my eyes, but is that tippex obscuring the UK price and (what looked to be) inked writing in the date box?

 

 

This looks to my tired old cynical eyes as if someone has tried to obscure the fact that it is a UK variant. Perhaps in an attempt to deceive others that it is an US issue? Presumably the indicia thwarted this attempted subterfuge? This seems to be an instance where CGC got it right.

On 11/23/2021 at 3:34 PM, valiantman said:

While the whole discussion could be complicated, but I think it's about 95% simple, 5% complicated.

The 95% simple part is that any reprint should have the word reprint somewhere on the label.

The other 5% would be to get all the other details correct, but CGC would get 95% credit from me if they just put "reprint" on every reprint.

I agree with you to a certain extent. But. Mystic 40 is NOT a reprint of TTA 13. It reprints ONE story from TTA 13, not the whole comic. M 40 needs to be identified as a periodical in its own right. Then perhaps in the notes it could be entered that the Groot story from TTA 13 and the cover are reprinted in M 40 or some such.

On 11/23/2021 at 1:51 PM, Redshade said:

I can't belive that CGC are mislabelling items in this way, of course they should be challenged, especially if a buyer purchases this as a result of such erroneous nomenclature.

Not to mention the possible legal ramifications if a subsequent purchaser decided to sue for misrepresentation. Americans are notorious for their litigious propensities are they not?

On 11/23/2021 at 1:38 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

We've all done it Stephen.

The £5K graded copy hasn't sold of course, but would anyone bet against it selling in the current market? And if so, what role have CGC played in making such a sale price possible? They gave the seller a legitimate reason to list it solely as 'TTA#13'. They could have done that anyway of course, but CGC have legitimised it with their label. Haven't they?

I can't belive that CGC are mislabelling items in this way, of course they should be challenged, especially if a buyer purchases this as a result of such erroneous nomenclature.

On 11/23/2021 at 1:18 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Sells for £92 when listed as Mystic #40...

....sits listed at five grand when - legitimately, due to the CGC label - it is titled TTA #13:

 

Thanks CGC 

I just came across this when I was searching for the one I sold which doesn't show up. Strange. It was just a meh! comic to me in 2014 when the film came out and so I listed it (I think) at £1 start and let the market decide what the "value" was.

On 11/23/2021 at 12:21 PM, Redshade said:

This is the first time that I have seen this and my immediate thought was "what UTTER stupidity". The comic is called Mystic and it is no 40 end of.
On a side note, during my downsizing I sold my Mystic  40 for £200 ish several years ago. I see this issue (perhaps even the same issue) has an asking price of £5000.

So not my issue, but it appears to be this recent sale that has been quickly slabbed.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313679223792?hash=item4908bd1bf0:g:U70AAOSwUKVhQxxA

On 11/23/2021 at 11:56 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Guys - as representatives of the UK based members here, whose home produced books are being consciously mislabelled by CGC, could you read the above two posts and tell me what you think of this? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill or is there a principle here to uphold? 

Please, let me know what you think by posting. Maybe if Matt sees a consistent message from us it might influence the decision making or at least bring forward an official explanation

@goldust40 @rakehell @Albert Tatlock @Redshade@nmtg9@Kevin.J@Garystar@Pantodude@Malacoda @Ken Aldred @Comicopolis

Anyone else reading who has a firm view either way, especially if you haven't already posted in the thread, please - dive in. 

This is the first time that I have seen this and my immediate thought was "what UTTER stupidity". The comic is called Mystic and it is no 40 end of.
On a side note, during my downsizing I sold my Mystic  40 for £200 ish several years ago. I see this issue (perhaps even the same issue) has an asking price of £5000.

On 11/17/2021 at 9:15 PM, nmtg9 said:

I went to every Leeds Mart at the Griffin for years from 86 onwards so our paths will have crossed, Kev used to go there too.

I was an awkward shy teenager at the time so we probably never spoke 😜

Yes I remember the Griffin Hotel and the sweatbox conditions in summer. Those were the days when a comic mart sold *gasp* comics.
Long gone now of course, pulled down years ago with the rest of Boar Lane. I went to the new venue up at the University a few times but by then it all seemed to be merchandise and I soon stopped going.

I have been selling off my "Second Childhood" collection* for the last few years. The family wouldn't have a clue what to do.

*I rediscovered comics in the mid 80s( when I was in my 30s) when I stumbled across a comic mart in Leeds. I had over 22 long boxes of Silver and Bronze by the late 90s when I came to my senses. Did I ever tell you about the time I ... No, better not.

On 11/17/2021 at 8:07 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

You will end up with about 55% of the amount the buyer has paid.

Correct Albert. They slice off a wodge of the hammer price as "sellers commission" before they pay out to the consignor. Have it

both ways they do.

I see that Kevin J has the explanation.

On 11/17/2021 at 7:45 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

No, add 26.4% to the final hammer price that you see for what the buyer will actually pay. Or 33.5% if Redshade is right. 

I've just been looking at the catalogue again and dash it all the "buyer's premium" (as they call it) was indeed 26.4% yet as I looked in a few times on the live bidding stream a commission of 33.5% was showing. I was not hallucinating and I've been off the sauce for years. Someone else must have seen it?

A few people have mentioned that the auctioneers commission of 26% has to be added onto the hammer price. I logged in a few times yesterday to see how things were going and always saw an auctioneers commission of 33.5% showing.

On 11/13/2021 at 6:30 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

That is why I have bequeathed my collection to the local cat's home.

They have already applied for planning permission for a statue of me in the grounds of their new palatial premises. The JCBs will start there as soon as i pop my clogs.

That's very noble of you Albert, what with the world shortage of cat litter and all.

On 11/8/2021 at 12:14 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

It'll be interesting to see how some of the valuable first issues fair in that auction. You can request a condition report of course, but I'm always put off by a single photo for a £20K item. The AF#15 is still in its Mylar and covered in glare. Pretty poor marketing isn't it, given how grade affects the valuation. 

I've been to a few live auctions now and it's an eye opening experience. People will bid blind it seems and I've seen some quite inexplicable prices for books that are massively underwhelming in the flesh when compared to their online photos. Generic auction houses aren't comic dealers. They don't have the experience or understanding of the medium. They don't know how to treat or store them, chucking them around in piles on shelves. I'm sure the seller will get a nice lot of money for their books, even after the not inconsiderable commission is deducted. And I don't know their circumstances, or needs. But trusting such a collection to an auction like that is a puzzling choice to me, given the other options available.

I agree that the grading and marketing of specialist items such as this collection are handled poorly by general auctioneers. What would you say are the "other options" Steve?

On 11/7/2021 at 4:28 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Yep, the books in the last three posts are taken from it Stephen.

Oh sorry. I read "these are from a collection on ebay" earlier.