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The Voord
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Posts posted by The Voord
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On 6/16/2023 at 4:53 PM, Bronty said:
I've won auctions for a small percentage of a proxy bid. I, for one, don't believe they are bidding people up to their maxes. I think what happens if that people's maxes are typically right around FMV... ergo, when they win, its right at their max.
That being said I almost always bid live. Bidding early can get other bidders pushing you up. I don't believe its the house, but I do believe you can win cheaper if you show less interest. And I say that because I think there have times I've been that guy, where I get outbid by a proxy and keep coming back to bid more.
Yeah, we've had this discussion before, Dan, lol.
As you may recall, all my bids went on interior panel pages from the same graphic novel.
Averaging around $1,500 a page when I was letting HA bid on my behalf . . .
Averaging around $500 - 750 a page when I switched to direct participation in the live bidding.
Co-incidence? Who knows.
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On 6/16/2023 at 7:03 AM, Superhero said:
I may put in a tracking bid but I generally don’t bid at all until the end.
Ditto.
I used to leave my high bid with HA, letting them compete on my behalf . . . and was finding that all my wins seemed to hover at or near my top price.
I then started placing tracking bids, leaving the real bidding until the final moments of the live auctions participating directly in person . . . and found I was saving money on similar artwork wins when I was just leaving my high bids for HA to act upon.
Make of that what you will . . . but I don't think I'll ever again be going the route of submitting my high-bids for HA to bid on my behalf ever again.
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On 6/10/2023 at 9:56 PM, Michael Browning said:
I had a collector message me earlier this year. He’d bought at auction a cover he thought I was going after. He kept raising the bids for fun, thinking he was jacking them up on me, but he won it — and I wasn’t even a bidder. So, he came to me asking me to pay his debt to HA - almost $22,000 - and buy it so he didn’t have to. Uh, no.
Not only is that nuts, it's also mean-spirited. End result for the 'winner':
. . . and some sleepless nights, I would imagine!
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Sad news indeed, by all accounts John was one of the nicest guys in the business . . . and I always admired him as an artist. He was top-notch.
For the sake of full transparency, I would say that I definitely lean more heavily towards Steve Ditko's run on Spidey, but do remember being blown-away by John's debut on ASM, especially his cover art for ASM #39, which was beautifully illustrated and had tremendous impact (it remains one of my all-time-favorite ASM covers . . . simply stunning). As a replacement for Ditko, I can't fault Stan Lee's choice. John's run on the title, as artist, was outstanding . . . up there with the best of Marvel.
Interesting to read John's thoughts on Spidey in the linked piece Brian posted, in particular the following quote:
For about a year, Ditko and Stan were absolutely disagreeing on plotting. Ditko was plotting, and they weren't even talking. It already had probably gotten a little bit confusing to readers for about a year.
I know I'm nit-picking here, but this is interesting to me as a point of discussion, and would say that the only confusion I'm getting is that if Ditko and Lee weren't even talking at the time (which is well documented), I can't see how they would be, "absolutely disagreeing on plotting" (unless Lee was complaining separately to others)? Also, as a (then) reader of the book, I was never confused by the plotting of Ditko's final year on Spidey . . . and it was that final year that gave us the much-loved Master Planner trilogy . . . along with # 37 that laid the groundwork for Norman Osborne's villainy that would soon lead to the big reveal of his Green Goblin alter ego. The wrap-up to the Green Goblin saga had been much-awaited. That John was handed that two-parter gave him the best possible start on the title. No-one was going to miss THAT storyline!
Rest in peace, John. You will be sadly missed.
- trimpehulk and grapeape
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On 6/14/2023 at 9:08 PM, WolverineX said:
Nice, how much? I would get it except those pre X94 X-men issues are tough to read...
I'm in the UK, so work on GBP£s. Same price as the Frazetta book.
So far . . . volume ones of ASM, FF, Avengers and now X-Men. I don't mind the early X-Men; it's what I grew up with. I know # 94 is the start of heavy interest in the title, but I'd pretty much stopped collecting Marvel in the early 1970s, so have never read the later X-Men stuff. Probably my loss, but I can't miss something I never had, lol!
- Mighty Hal and WolverineX
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On 4/19/2023 at 9:37 PM, WolverineX said:
I actually don't own any other books, so this my first one. My biggest impression is how big it is. The quality is fantastic. Never owned a taschen before.
The Taschen reprint editions of early Marvel titles are also well worth buying. Same size as the Frazetta book. The latest release, of X-Men #s 1 - 21, reached me Monday.
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Picked this UK Movie Poster painting up about four weeks ago for the US equivalent of about $350.
ADVENTURES OF A PRIVATE EYE (1977) movie poster painting (artist unknown). British (lame) sex comedy starring a whole host of British character actors popular at the time, whom I would imagine will be mostly unknown outside of my country. There's an acetate overlay containing text and character photographs, so I'm showing the art with and without . . . along with a photo of how the artwork looked in print.
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On 6/9/2023 at 7:23 PM, RafaVia said:
I would ask for him to print a bluelines copy and have him ink that fully.
that way he could send you both pieces!
This.
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On 6/6/2023 at 9:23 PM, RBerman said:
Comic book pages were often produced on tight deadlines, and authors sometimes took shortcuts that impacted the long-term appearance of the art. Bill Sienkiewicz was discussing today that he might use marker instead of india ink when time was short. What are your thoughts on having artists retouch their own work which has faded with time, like fixing faded blacks? Does the improved appearance diminish its value because it's "no longer original" even though it's being restored to something that looks like the original, by the same artist who originally did it?
Yes, when work like this is performed, it's no longer the original original . . . it becomes the altered original. Personally, I'd likely shy away from from most things that have been changed at a later date, with the exception of clean-up, glue residue removal, deacidification, stat replacement and the like (that doesn't involve altering the actual drawings).
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On 9/27/2021 at 2:22 PM, RafaVia said:
My Comiclink art finally arrived today. Got a nice stack from 2 auctions. One particular lot was 5 Chan Powerman pages that was my most expensive purchase ever (but is about 100 a page, so very happy) and also a Saviuk Web page, that I didn’t even remember I won, 😝
I'll turn my computer screen upside down . . . that might help!
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On 5/31/2023 at 4:04 PM, Blastaar said:
Two bits of advice for anyone getting a commission.
1. Know exactly what you want. Type up the scenario and add “feel free to use artistic freedom, I trust your eye.”
or
2. Ask the artist who they are most comfortable creating or what character(s) are they “feeling” at this point and time.
This, in my experience, has led to pleasant experiences.Not forgetting your commission bait . . .
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Just a gentle reminder that new members are always welcome to this FB group I created some years back, which is a good place for art enthusiasts who remember the halcyon days, before photo-montage became the cheaper option for studios, and talented illustrators created front-of-house paintings that would entice the would-be viewer to pay the admission price to a movie.
Original MOVIE Art & Marketplace | Facebook
Lots of great movie poster paintings are regularly put on display . . . and we also have posts or OA available for sale that, in many cases are a lot more affordable than comic-book artwork. In short, it's a good place to be if you always liked the movies.
Personally, I took up movie poster artwork collecting in recent years. Always like the stuff, and a lot of art is surprisingly affordable . . . if you know where to look!
A smattering of OA examples from my collection . . . all purchased in recent years:
- Dr. Balls, F For Fake, tth2 and 2 others
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On 5/30/2023 at 4:54 PM, Will_K said:
Interesting point, "rid" maybe a poor word choice but OP is clearly a fan, otherwise he wouldn't be asking.
Yes, fan of the series. I wasn't disputing that. I was leaning more towards his approach to a particular artist who, as Bronty pointed out, was an inker for only one issue. I felt he should have put in the effort to say something positive along the lines of, "Really like your work and I think you would be a perfect fit for my commission idea," . . . which obviously he didn't. In other words, make the artist feel good about himself . . . the flattery/sugar-coating Garf mentions . . . and he might feel good about accepting the job.
Heck, Barney also says in one of his communications to the artist, "You also did a few issue of *blank* as well, right?" . . . which sounds as if he's not sure, and is not exactly presenting himself well to an artist he's looking to hire. He should know.
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On 5/29/2023 at 8:36 AM, Garf said:I can see your messages weren't offensive, but tone can sometimes be hard to get across in writing. . . . I would have gone with a longer initial message and a large sprinkle of sugar. There's no harm in a bit of flattery to try and get the right tone going, and every once in a while it might just net you what you want where you would otherwise have been turned down. I'm not saying people need to do this when they are requesting a list of available pages, but if you are asking for a commission it will pretty much always enhance your chances of a good outcome.
That's a well thought-out response, Garf, and presents a key element missing from Barney's communications (see emboldened text in the above quote extract).
Most creative-types like to have their egos stroked . . . and I'm not seeing any appreciation for the artist's craft in any of Barney's messages to this unidentified artist.
Instead, he says:
"Most artists have gotten rid of their pages"
Rubbish is something you get rid off . . . "released to the marketplace" might have been a better, less harsh, choice of words.
Also, because Barney states he's had no luck in tracking down any published work from the series . . . it suggests to me that the artist in question was down the list of creators to contact who worked on the book (hardly first choice) . . . which is perhaps why the artist became irritated in later communications (everything seemed to be going okay until Barney's "got rid" comment, and things then begin to quickly sour).
Putting myself in the artist's shoes (I'm trying to look at this from both sides), I'd be asking myself:
"Does this guy (Barney) actually like my work . . . he doesn't say so . . . who else has he contacted before me?"
As to the business of artist's materials . . . he sounds like he relies on tried and trusted materials he's used for a long time. Product lines do get discontinued . . . and new (replacement) materials would need to be tested by him to see what works best.
Another thing people here might want to consider is that commissions (those that require time and effort) are usually intended for an audience of one (some commissions do end up as published pieces later on, as was the case with Mike B's Steranko piece . . . but I would imagine these are far and few between?). As an artist, what would you prefer . . . creating work that's seen and enjoyed by thousands . . . or divert your time and effort for the benefit of just one single person? I know where my priorities would lie. Sure, when the work later dries up, commissions can be a good source of income . . . but the mysterious artist sounds like he's very busy with regular work being fed to him.
Been an interesting thread to follow, and it's always good to compare notes with other takes on the subject. I'm sure Barney is a decent guy, and I wish him luck in future commission requests. Hopefully, he will take something useful away from all this.
- Michael Browning, tth2, Garf and 3 others
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On 5/28/2023 at 3:22 PM, Dr. Balls said:
I was talking about tth2s example he set forth about taking a random job offer (of any job). As for the commission, I agree - it sounds like he doesn't need it or want it, which is something he just needed to keep to himself.
Maybe Tim was talking about a Kitchen Porter's job in his analogy?
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On 5/28/2023 at 3:04 PM, Dr. Balls said:
Anyone with a scrap of ambition or confidence would take the job and show them that they were the best choice despite being picked last. I know it sounds like something from a motivational poster, but that right there is what's wrong with 95% of everyone: taking more time to whine about a perceived slight than taking the initiative and excelling. It's a job. Take it and perform it like a professional.
The artist's already got a job. What was being offered to him was some side-work that, from the sound of it, he doesn't really need . . . or want.
- tth2, jjonahjameson11 and Readcomix
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On 5/28/2023 at 12:35 PM, Funnybooks said:yes...the right side and then the artist side
Well, the OP started this thread with the title, 'How to lose Commission Requests and Alienate People' which kind of suggests to me that he knew he was on shaky ground and was prepared for flak.
I'm on no-one's side . . . I don't know the OP and the identity of the artist is a complete mystery to me.
I think the OP could have been a bit more tactful in his request . . . yeah, artists can be sensitive souls . . . and can only put myself in the artist's shoes. Would I have been thrilled to receive Barney's communication (and the way it was worded)? Probably not.
You have a different take. Good for you. It's all opinion-based . . . and the OP was interested in feedback. He got it, and he can draw his own conclusions.
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On 5/28/2023 at 2:23 AM, Funnybooks said:
here come the artist apologists
No, just trying to look at it from both sides.
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On 5/27/2023 at 2:48 PM, KirbyCollector said:
"But... but.. but... the consignor MADE me price it like that! He twisted my arm real bad, honest!"
Well, if it is consignment art . . . I woulda thought any dealer worth their salt would steer the consigner towards the realms of reasonableness on flip-valuation?
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You hurt his feelings by implying he's a runner-up in the line-up of desired artists for that particular book, so he's not exactly commission-friendly to you. Maybe try some of the other artists who 'got rid'?
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On 5/27/2023 at 3:25 AM, KirbyCollector said:
WTF... another one
Conan 85 page sold March 31 for $5520
Now on Panel Page for $9500
The mark-up in price of close-on $4K is excessive. The competition for that piece, nearly two months ago, fell below the auction price - so I'm struggling to see how the new ask so soon after the original sale can be justified? I get that dealers buy art to re-sell at a profit, and don't have a problem with that, but this is a bit of a jaw-dropper! Just my
- Terry E. Gibbs and Twanj
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On 5/27/2023 at 10:11 AM, vodou said:
CL does, at least for me.
I take it you simply asked CL the question?
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On 5/27/2023 at 4:51 AM, tth2 said:
BP, whether $29 or 20% if that's more than $29, should be factored into your bid. Don't bid $100 and be "surprised" when you have to pay $129, it's all disclosed upfront.
Instead, if $100 is the amount you're actually willing to pay, then your bid should be $71 and then with the BP the gross amount you'll have to pay, if you win, is $100. For items where the 20% will be relevant, I figure out how much I'm willing to pay and then divide by 1.2 to determine the actual bid amount, which then with the 20% will come out to exactly the amount I'm willing to pay.
Absolutely, do the maths!
Had this scenario on my movie art FB group several years ago when I gave a heads-up to the members of a UK auction house offering-up something like 150 vintage OA movie paintings. One Italian collector was up in arms over the 25% BP and we had this discussion of factoring-in the surcharge into your hammer price bidding to take into account final overall price to stay in budget. Italian guy couldn't quite adopt the mentality, so refused to bid on any offering that included this 'outrageous' BP amount!
I went into the auction with an overall budget in mind . . . factored-in the BP into my live auction bidding . . . and came away with five 'steals', well below what I was expecting to pay (all artworks sold, and many sold for very reasonable amounts). My only regret was that I didn't pursue more art!
After the auction was over, Italian guy started enquiring about sold artworks he'd had his eyes on . . . that he could easily have won if only he swallowed his pride and did the maths! I just replied to one of his posts saying something to the effect of, "Well, if you're now looking for certain artworks re-surfacing, you'll very likely be paying a big mark-up in price over what they sold for . . . that including the dreaded (Shock! Horror!! Gasp!!!") 25% BP."
He still didn't get it . . .
* With apologies to any Italian guys on this forum . . . my Mr. Italian guy is probably a one-off.
The Day After. The Brutal Betrayal of the fast flip.
in Original Comic Art
Posted
I've had a few sob story approaches over the years . . . problem is, it can be difficult separating the sincere from the phony. Just because someone says they're genuine doesn't make it so!