comicjel

On 3/1/2024 at 2:33 PM, skillzdadirecta said:

I just got back my most successful submission to CGC to date... 6 out of 8 books came back 9.8.

Congrats!... Get them ready for the 9.9 pre-screen!

On 2/28/2024 at 11:11 AM, sledgehammer said:

"Hey, Stan. Can you sign my key book, but as teeny tiny as possible?"

"Thanks."

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305413728907?itmmeta=01HQR2JHA3FDG5C1ABE3AKSYSG&hash=item471c13aa8b:g:lRMAAOSwaKVl1sqj&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0M2p8QlMYhYmmhCY2lb5vusJMHtCIngW47OeNHuccuiOSjdxF3zwB9k62aPhwxBrhXYtS523xVRTvK6uZ2txwqoRGIKqK%2B%2BpftD2mKHa1ArJZbNXoFseDqsqa2Z8cjUSC%2FWsZHZIGsPDnKEzfdhWGQvN3AJE0WUyFpDnzdqf%2F4pzTX1s%2Fs0dvtY6fPbtoaDDv70VHNVSOrZ%2FxqhAIfhiEeCU0jh2PJgi41aOuyeMeg9vPXOeE9w1xQzhwND6G1dO7fyu1e0IG0gyVliv9lCfxnk%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6SVyoK-Yw

How about this one... "Hey Stan, please sign right on the black area where nobody will be able to see it!"...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296248366800?itmmeta=01HQR9EYMG4B3M8DJKH3B336KC&hash=item44f9c756d0:g:Da8AAOSwoWBl1sqi

On 2/28/2024 at 10:26 AM, paqart said:

I hate to say it, but I'm starting to prefer raw comics, particularly for the most valuable issues. I have a hard time picturing myself buying something like an Avengers 1 in a slab, for fear it was a counterfeit. It hadn't occurred to me until reading this thread, but the slabs invite counterfeiting by concealing comic book interiors.

I buy a lot of CGC comics, but I continue to look for raw comics as well - I just find that, as time goes by, it is getting harder to find nice raw comics.

These counterfeits do scare the Hell out of me though! - hopefully there will always be a small tell, but who knows!?! 

On 2/28/2024 at 8:34 AM, sledgehammer said:

What difference does it make how far away it is?
The timing of this dump of reholdered books smells very bad to me, and CGC refuses to acknowledge if scamboy ever submitted these comics.

I have no idea if there is a personal connection to this seller, but how hard would it be to get someone in Tonawanda NY to consign the books?
Harder than getting Comiclink to do it for you?
Somebody in California, that you had a relationship with in NJ for 20 years before the  hit the fan?

Just a reminder that CGC refuses to help collectors that want to know if scamboy ever touched a comic.

Maybe there are dozens of scamboys. That would explain it, I guess.

You can also get a sense of an EBAY seller's typical inventory by what they have successfully sold... when they show no high valued comics having been historically sold, at the same moment that they are selling a bunch of high value comics, a little more care and due diligence is well advised!  

On 2/27/2024 at 8:15 AM, sledgehammer said:

I guess it's feasible as a coincidence that an ebay seller in Tonawanda, New York is selling about 8 yellow label reholdered keys right now.

FF 1, ASM 1, Daredevil 1, Avengers 1, TOS 38, ST 101, Hulk 181. etc.

On 2/25/2024 at 6:29 PM, Tnexus said:

Does CGC collect FMV grading fees if a book is resubmitted and retains the same grade?

I believe so, but with higher value books, prob better to have them screened first - that way if they feel that there is not a good chance for a bump-up, you save the pressing and grading fees (you may need to be willing to have the book pressed to do the screening though) and there is a fee, but it is less than the grading fee. 

On 2/25/2024 at 6:14 PM, Buzzetta said:

I had a Golden Age book that I bought that was designated as a Slightly Brittle.  The person who bought it from me CPR'd it.  It went from a 2.5 to a 2.5 with Light Tan to OW pages. 

However, I had a book CPR'd that went from a Light Tan- OW to a Cream to OW. 

I have seen similar stories. 

Yes, I completely know what you mean... I have had all kinds of shifts with page Q through the years - usually moving in better direction, but every once in a while a step back the other way.

On 2/25/2024 at 1:19 PM, Buzzetta said:

I have said this MANY times before.  Slightly Brittle to Off White has gone to Tan to Off White or even Off White on a resub. 

Dude, you need to start looking for nicer books 

On 2/25/2024 at 1:11 AM, MasterChief said:

 

Edgar Church copy of Superman #1: Initially authenticated and certified in 2004 as 7.5, it was regraded in 2014 as 8.0. The book is now an 8.5 with a new grade date of 1/10/2022 (exact same certification number as the 8.0 copy).

 

Kansas City copy of Action Comics #1: Initially authenticated and certified in 2010 as 8.0 with OFF-WHITE Pages. The book is now an 8.5 with OFF-WHITE TO WHITE Pages. It has a new grade date of 11/04/2021 (exact same certification number as the 8.0 copy).

 

Curious, what is the bump-up fee when you submit for a reholder, and get a grade bump?

I can't find that on the fee schedule?? 

On 2/23/2024 at 4:27 PM, EastEnd1 said:

That comic store also had photos with that white carpet background if I recall correctly... 

It sure did... and a heat gun!

On 2/23/2024 at 3:58 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Ok, so potentially the mystery may still only be why these books are not on CGC's reholdered list if they were reholdered and submitted by the scammer.  Perhaps they were submitted to CGC by someone else?

I do not like to mix in too much speculation when Comicwiz is so carful about keeping everything as objective as possible, but I believe the scammer could very well have been scamming through reholdering well before the holders that had the label in a separate section (or custom labels).  It just became easier when the case changed, and the custom labels gave him a better excuse for having more reholders done - but again, this is just my suspicion based on what I am seeing so far.

On 2/23/2024 at 3:48 PM, EastEnd1 said:

True, they did admit to one from what I recall from reading the complaint, with little detail.  What comicwiz is finding though makes it potentially a lot more pervasive than what CGC disclosed.  And demonstrates that the straight swap activity reaches back to 2018 (so far) and includes silver keys.  That's a lot of interim years of potential straight swaps involving higher value books.

Comicwiz will correct me if I am wrong, but the 3 books he has displayed all may still have been reholdered - I do not think we can conclude that they have not been reholdered.

On 2/23/2024 at 2:10 PM, sledgehammer said:

I think that it is a different inner well, with the same label.

If you look at the weld on the label (under the CGC Hologram) it is in a different spot between the two books - so I think that is a new label - which implies a reholder - but as you said in a different post, no way to really make the call yet.

On 2/23/2024 at 10:01 AM, drotto said:

This is from the letter.  I am looking specifically at the line of testing and upgrading the seals on our holders, new holograms, and new variable QR codes.  Has anyone seen evidence of any of these items yet in the wild?  If so can we see some pictures of them?  its all well and good to say these things, show us. I also have a few reactions.

1. Seems like testing new seals is just avoiding the fact you need a better holder.  Is one in development, we all remember how proudly you promoted the Gen 3 case? Not saying I expect it to be done in a month, but it one in the works?

2. In the swapping case scenario, a better hologram means nothing,  unless it is being placed in a way it would be destroyed if the case is opened. 

3. Variable VR codes again mean nothing when swapping a case. It may help with the inside job situation, but that person had access to the label generator.. Only time it could help is if people are outright forging labels at home. 

I still think a small scan of the actual comic on the label would be good, but if not that, they should consider a hologram on the label in addition to the outside case - as they close the loophole with the reholdering, I suspect there will be an increase in counterfeit everything (like the ASM 667).  

On 2/22/2024 at 12:27 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Has this been posted? I doubt it's the same scammer, which begs the question, "How many people are out there doing this?"

This was on social media. Evidently last July a guy used this book as collateral for a $500 loan at a pawn shop and never returned. When the slab was opened...

Fake label for sure... the white inside the "9" should look much more like an oval, not a circle - there are other minor issues with the spacing of the words and dates.

Only $500... I almost feel sorry for the scammer!

On 2/19/2024 at 2:47 PM, comicwiz said:

ASM 300 CGC 9.8 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

(NOTE: This shifts the timeline of tampering further back to August 15, 2018)

Ten days ago I shared the first UNLISTED book (FF 48 CGC 5.5) and have continued compiling others. Today is a holiday here (Family Day) and I've tried to set aside some time to work/share another because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold.

Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure,ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer).

Certification: 1333068004 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in August 3rd, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this ASM 300 appears 4 times for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last

Cert: 1333068004
Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

1. 183297086318 | ebay | addict11 | 6/29/2018 | $2,265

 

2. 163182535151 | ebay | ncmultimarketing04 | 8/3/2018 | $2,702

Third appearance (The listing below is when we notice a change of the book inside the holder, while keeping the same certification number)

3. 283097153694 ebay | alleged seller Cert: 1333068004 [8/15/2018] - $2,475

 

4. 232918685477 | ebay | azwildcatz520 | 9/7/2018 | $2,325 (reuses the same images from previous sale)

Comicwiz, the weld line on the label (right below the CGC hologram) between the original version and the swapped version seems to be in two different places (the original one was closer to the right edge of the label).

So wouldn't this imply that a new label was printed and welded to the swapped book (i.e. reholdered), and if so, and since this is a generation of case that was not used in 2018, wouldn't this bring our timeline further back to before 2018?

Also, if this was in fact a reholder by the scammer, wonder why it is not on the 350 list?

Not sure if my logic is sound here, so I wanted to check with the expert! 

On 2/20/2024 at 11:19 PM, comeaux said:

Nothing will change at CGC, it’s the same incompetent management who allowed fraudulent books to be sent in for reholder, held these fraudulent books in their hands and then sent back this bogus CGC product to the scammer to be sold to the unknowing CGC masses. They allowed CGC employee thugs to print fake labels for an unknown number of books to bilk CGC customers. 

CGC has preferential customers who send in books for a “reholder” wherein they just send in the book with a label without the cracked/broken case. NO QUESTIONS ASKED, CGC sends these natives back a freshly reholdered book. Try that yourself and see how that works out for ya. 

It’s the same CGC employees hired from Shoe Town to handle your books at minimum wage. 
 

The natives have to dump a few 100 CGC slabs a month, this chitshow is pinching their wallet and is why they pop in to read a few posts, throw a few rocks, then disappear back in CGC’s turd funnel. 

IMO, these boards remain interesting because of the range of the points of view, such as the above

On 2/20/2024 at 10:43 AM, sledgehammer said:

That $700 sale obliterated the other sales noted on GPA at that time period.

Yes, and that copy would not be the copy that you would expect to see a premium being paid!

Don't know what to make of it, but all 3 of those 9.8 books from that submission were reported in GPA as being sold on a date that was not listed on GoCollect, and GoCollect reported sales that were not on GPA - just strange that they did not match up? - but likely just a benign anomaly in the way each of those tracking sites gather their data.

On 2/20/2024 at 8:31 AM, sledgehammer said:

Can someone check GO Collect for the possibly ebay history of Tales of the Teen Titans #44, CGC 9.8,  sold for $650 on June 29, 2022?

I don't see that it has a record on GPA after that.

Of course, sale prices peaked shortly before that at $850, and plummeted after that.

Just checked - no 6/29/22 sale on GoCollect - they do show one sale of it on 8/22/22 for $700 - it is the same comic pictured - was kind of a deceiving group of photos, in that showed several close ups, but none of the lower right corner (also no cream carpet background).

Let me know if you need other info about it.

On 2/19/2024 at 11:09 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Just easier to quote you both. 

I mean until it is known whether the original submitter did in fact receive the same book then this all just speculation. The defects on the book would make it pretty clear as well.

I think there is more information that needs to be known.  Could you say maybe it was switched out by that employee? Maybe, I am sure CGC would look into since it the book was graded in 2022 while that employee was working for them. 

The real questions would be who ever submitted it raw.  Did they get the same book they originally submitted? Why did the original submitter sell it like that? How did the guy who sold it to Bryce not see it as well when he bought it?  Because if they got the same book back that was originally submitted then it's could simply be a mis-grade (by mis-grade I mean the grader probably selected the wrong grade by accident on the computer screen). I assume that happens.  Also bad on the original submitter if they did not send it back to CGC and sold it to Bryce's customer that for whatever reason also lacked the basic "buy the book not the grade" and to be honest blind as bat.  Now the rebuttal is why didnt QC catch it, valid 110%. 

I think the problem now is everyone is quick to jump the gun without asking more questions.  Over the years most seasoned people here have seen situations happen and it's more an oversight than criminal.  Case in point me just last month.  I submitted a Daredevil #168, it came back a CGC 9.6.  I knew that was way too high, sure enough I got the book back and it was a VF+ book sitting in a 9.6 holder.  I assumed it was a CGC grading mistake because I got back the SAME BOOK I submitted originally, and it was higher then what I graded it at.  So I sent it back via ME, they re-graded it correctly and I have it back now as the correct grade of CGC 8.5.  No idea if the grader just had slip of a keystroke/mouse click, or just for whatever reason graded it wrong that day, but it sure wasn't anything criminal about it, but rather a mistake by the grader and QC not catching it.

So unless CGC is trying to make me more money because they like me it was just an internal mistake.

LOL, I can attest to a CGC "mis-grade"!...

On 2/19/2024 at 10:20 PM, shadroch said:

I don't have to pick it up 100% of the time. I have to stand by the book if I sell it. I can't do that if the book is encased.

I understand your point.

But if you think about it, you actually can stand by the book if it is encased, in the same way that you can stand by a raw book that it has not been color touched.

In both cases, you can stand by the book even though you are not 100% certain that there will not be a problem (missing MVS for the encased book) or (undetected color touch for the raw book). 

What you actually can't do is have 100% confidence that you will not be burned by either unfortunate event.

You trust yourself enough to feel that you will fare better if you stick strictly with raw books.

Others may feel that they would fare better by sticking with graded books.

Neither one is 100% without risk.    

On 2/19/2024 at 9:27 PM, shadroch said:

If I buy a book that looks NM, I don't simply slap a price tag on it. If I sell a book that has a color touch I missed, of course, I'll refund the person.

I've got tons of modern Spideys, but am out of the SA game besides what is on consignment. 

I thought I was good at detecting color touch, until I started getting many of my raw books graded - you may be better than I was at detecting it - if you pick it up almost 100% of the time kudos to you!

My point is that there is risk either way, albeit they may be different items that cause the risk.

But I get your point too, it is frustrating that there is any risk that there could be a missing MVS in a universal holder - that is a frustrating new development!

One other factor in buying valuable raw books is that so many dealers get their high grade valuable books graded to maximize the sales proceeds, such that when you see a high grade valuable raw book being sold now, there is a higher probability that there is a reason that it has not been graded, as compared to a while ago.

LOL, I had an engineer friend that enjoyed parachuting, until it hit him that the parachute worked 99.999999% of the time, while the law of gravity was 100%   

On 2/19/2024 at 7:23 PM, sledgehammer said:

I would love to see, what a true auction for a CGC 9.4, blue label, Incredible Hulk 181, would go for.

Right now.

there's an auction for one going on, on comic link. Just keep in mind that I said true.

If it had a custom label, MJI, looked to be an 8.5, and had a slightly damaged case with a tuft of cream colored carpet sticking out, it would prob sell for about 95% of the last 9.4... just wouldn't be one of us buying it!