comicjel

It's not made up... I am rooting for him to have been duped, but I won't be shocked to find out otherwise.

If I bought a nice looking Hulk 181 in say 9.0 that I thought could get a 9.2, I would have sent it to CGC still in the case to get pressed and graded - think about that chain reaction... CGC calls me to tell me that it had a stamp clipped out - I say, WTF! - I counted on you guys to not have missed this when you originally graded it - I want a reimbursement for my economic loss! - CGC goes back to see the original book grading records and sees that it is different... CGC can easily see the account that was used was the CBS. Maybe he knew the scam and felt very over confident, but I would never have such confidence with a scam like this - I can see a guy (maybe with not much starting net worth??) hiding behind a bunch of EBAY accounts, but I am having a tougher time picturing a family man with a well known store, who's career revolves around comics subjecting himself to this risk.

I would agree with the 9.8s - probably never cracked out - but the green to blue books were not 9.8s and they were definitely books with grades and values that would be common to try for a bump up. ... and think about the ASM 252 that started all this - aren't you surprised that the buyer had not looked at the last sale himself and see that the first sale was without the MJI (I apologize to whoever that was!)? All I am saying is that if I were the store owner, and more and more books were being churned this way, and I was fully aware of the scam, I would be stressed constantly!! - I would never let the guy use my account, and show off all the scammed books in the store's Instagram page. ... but again, there is that heat gun!

I think about all those Hulk 181s that went from green to blue - I would think those would have led CGC to figuring this out eventually (at least internally) when buyers eventually tried CPR on them. I also think buyers would start to figure the scam out when they went back to see if their recently purchased book had been previously sold, and see a different book. It was far from a perfect crime - the more they sold, the more bread crumbs were being left. But everyone is convincing me, I probably am being incredibly naive to think he was duped!

Maybe I did not understand the Instagram photo... I thought it was showing books that were being offered for sale in the store, and if so, I could easily see the scammer consign many of his reholdered books there. However, if the instagram page was displaying them as if belonging to the CBS owner, and not for sale, then I retract my comment! I was also reminded about the heat gun!

... yes, you make a good point!, there was that heat gun! It just seems like the type of scam, that once you start successfully pulling it off, you would keep it to yourself. There does not appear to be an aspect of it that requires two "outside" people to make it work. I guess I want to believe that a business owner, with a pretty good gig, would not mess around with something like this!

I do not know this store owner from Adam, and I have never had any dealings with him or his store to my knowledge, but I feel it is more likely than not that he was duped by the scammer. His store is effectively providing the vehicle for getting the books graded and likely selling many of them (basically adding credibility to the scammer) - I can not imagine an owner of a brick and mortar store risking his own reputation or subjecting his families financial well being to a scam like this. Unless they invented this reholder scam together, at what point does the scammer go up to him and say... I have this great scam with CGC, and I need you to help add credibility to it!... and at what point does the store owner agree to do it? I think it is much more likely that the scammer told him that he scored a great collection of multiple ungraded ASM 300s, etc. I may be proved wrong here soon, but my nickel is that this guy was duped.

I guess one lesson here is that any books that are being sent to CGC should be photographed first!

I like that CGC is pushing to determine every fraudulent sale they did - bodes well for an expanded list at some point.

Not sure, but something different! - more noticable if tampered with.

Knowing this, I really hope they have engineers working overtime on a new case design!... and a big push to start loading up more scans in the "verify" module.

I guess the question is, will CGC feel any responsibility for the books that were just swapped out without being reholdered??

This would "indirectly" imply that these guys did not have a go-to CGC insider... otherwise they would have had them pull the books - so there is that! Unless the books were already toxic and being scrutinized by that time.

Upon information and belief... yes!

I have started to wonder if the scammers might have been swapping out inferior books on more than just reholdered books, and may have only used the reholder process when the case did not look clean when they were done with the swap out.

I have a similar situation - there is a comic that is coming up for auction, I suspect it will go for pretty high $$ - I would normally bid pretty high with little concern about it's legitimacy - I see that it was graded in 2017, and is in the new type holder (with the label in it's own compartment) - I have definite trepidation as I consider what I am going to ultimately bid (if at all) - I hope I will get over this feeling, but at the moment I have it.

Not as differently as you may think... our strategies may differ, but I bet our view on this situation, is much more similar than it may appear!

Knowing that CGC was learning about the Terrazas' reholder scam in September / October 2023, I am surprised that they did not discover the (assumed) separate reholder scam themselves in the 2 - 3 months before the ASM 252 was brought to light. I would think they would have been investigating the reholder procedures pretty closely back then to confirm that the reholder process was not being manipulated in a similar way by others (inside or outside CGC). This whole scam would be perceived much differently from a PR standpoint if CGC caught it internally and exposed it themselves.

I can't help it... when I see this, I feel sad for her!!

Based on the COMPLAINT... The guy was reholdering inferior books with duplicate (but authentic) labels from higher graded (different) books. They were also able to get SS books encapsulated somehow without going through regular grading (and witnessing) protocols. Has way too many similarities to the "ASM 252 reholder" scam for my liking!

I know... looking forward to your take!

#50... admitted to stealing twenty-three customer-submitted comic books... As if that would not be noticed??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186248024781

I hear you, and I respect the hell out of your approach! Personally, I feel there is more to this scam than reholdering inferior books, but I have no "proof" of this. I believe you feel this too. I am a CPA, and when you apply statistical analysis to look for trends that you would expect to see, if this were just a reholdering scam, the trends do not fit. I would expect to see the original submitted books that receive 9.8s to be almost perfect specimens (that does not appear to hold true for some reason). I would expect to see original submitted books that receive 9.8s to be reholdered almost always, but again, I don't see this, many are just being sold (which "really" makes no sense for the reholder scam as we know it). With the original submissions, I would expect to see all 9.8s (if being screened for 9.8) or many more 9.6s (if not being screened for 9.8), but again, this is not what seems to happen. Lastly, I would not expect to see SS books involved at all. So when I see all these anomalies to what would be expected, I can only conclude that there is much more to the scam than 350 reholdered books. I am a huge CGC fan, my goal is not to bash them or embarass them. I want them to close every scam loophole that exists and get this behind them! I do not want them to have "reholder" blinders on, and possibly miss a bigger scam that is being committed, only to have the bigger scam be exposed later and cause much more damage to their reputation than if discovered now. So my goal in identifying these anomalies is twofold... [1] To get others thinking about these anomalies to see if they discover things that can make the possible bigger scam come more into focus sooner, and [2] to get the attention of people that are reviewing this internally at CGC (those that have the access to much more information than us), and hopefully encourage them to pull on those threads and really get to the bottom of every aspect of the scam.

It was part of the same submission, it just was likely not reholdered. The 350 list is likely only books that have been reholdered.