CDNComix

I sent you a pm, but maybe everyone could benefit from it. It's a long confusing story but Cosmic Circus #2, 3, and 5 are all ultra-rare books, not that #1 or any of the two printings of #4 are easy. Using the Kennedy guide one does not have that impression. The creator of the series, "Rey King", dances to his own tune (as he should) and has changed his story about the production of these over the years. I have a feeling that he told Kennedy one basic account over fourty years ago, but left out some importent details - like maybe a half a dozen of #2 were produced; #3 was never produced but its contents were used for another title and that #5 had only 50 copies. I will now tie-in with "I never seen a guide" chat above. IMO if you were only to buy one, then the Kennedy is the only useful guide on the market (as a reference guide), followed by the Illustrated Checklist, followed by the Kirch Guide and last but not least the FUGG which is predominatley a modern porno comics guide. For example the FUGG infers that the ultra-rare issues of Cosmic Circus (2, 3, and 5) and as availible as #1 and #4 from the stated prices. Definitely not the case. After 40 years of hindsight, I am disappointed with the value of information that is provided by the FUGG. It just seems to borrow from the Kennedy and not add to the information provided by it.

The Hang-Up Published by: Aboveground Comics; Contributor: Randall Muir; Date: 1978; Price: 75 cents; Page Count: 36 pages; Size: magazine; (8.0 x 10.0); Kennedy #: 944; Print information: one printing; number of copies unknown; An obscure, adult themed, morality tale from (I am proud to say) from Canada. From Thunder Bay, Ontario of all places. Both this book and its creator seemed to have dropped off of the face of the Earth since its publication.

That's what I am putting out there, since this is the first time any copy has had its fluorescent properties posted. Let's see how other copies behave: "second" blue staple editions, advertised modern reproductions, possible in-the-time-of fakes, other examples that have provenance and should be real. Fluorecence is only one physical attribute (it may or may not prove useful) but there are many others. Knowledge and sharing of it is power.

First learning point from the ashcan I had purchased from Bill Pearson. It's a bit surprising (to me). I performed a fluorescence test on my example and is opitically dead (barely fluorescent, appears as dull purple). See attached. I had placed various fluorescent papers around it including its backing board for comparasion. I cannot remove the uv cut-off filter from my cell phone, so the images do not appear the same as directly with the eye (even more pronounced in real life). This is a bigger conversation - type of lamp, is the Bill Pearson representative of others etc. But my copy barely fluorecences. If this holds true with other known to be real copies, then this could an easy tell that is accessible to most. More information is coming with time.

Goose Lake Gags Published by: Goose Lake Park Inc.; Contributors: Gary Grimshaw; Al Shamie; Songer; Rick Giff; Larry Benjamin; Bobby Mann; Chip Charlton; Ginn Russo; Tom Wright; Pat Cully; Carlson Goodson; Shawnee Mission; Date: 1970; Price: 25 cents; Page Count: 20 pages; Size: magazine; (7.5 x 10.75); Kennedy #: 880; Print information: one printing; number of copies unknown; About a year after Woodstock and Altamont, there was the Michigan’s Goose Lake Festival of August 1970. Building on the mistakes from the better known previous mega-events, Goose Lake was situated on a fully planned site dedicated to holding large music festivals. One of the fruits of their pre-planning was Goose Lake Gags, a program that provides site information, a map of the festival grounds, act information concert schedule and a tip-of-the-hat to underground comix. It’s cover is a definite contender for “my all time favourite underground comix cover”. My copy is the “trimmed version” and was not stapled or bound. Note of caution: I have seen copies posted for sale that have the center pages missing (festival grounds map).

Good Food – Cartoons to Color Published by: CSU Extension Office; Contributors: Artie Romero; Mike Gordon; Mel Grier; Date: 1977; Price: ncp; Page Count: 22 pages; including 12 coloring pages; Size: magazine; (8.5 x 11.0); Kennedy #: non-underground; Print information: number of printings and copies unknown; On page 6 of this thread, I posted a similar publication from the CSU Extension Office, another non-underground (Starfood Comics - Capt. Bushboogie & Co.) produced by Artie Romero as an edu-comic to develop good nutrition habits for kids. Definitely not everyone’s collecting area, but finding early peripherals like these always gives me a thrill. If you have any, please post.

I am not a "Star Wars" scholar (there's probably graduate degrees these days) but I have always heard that "Han Solo" was based on Francis Ford Coppola. Was there borrowing or inspiration from the Cody Starbuck character? I am afraid you would have to ask the persons involved - Lucas probably has plenty of time these days in between counting piles of money. What I can offer is a suggestion (which seems to become reality in the eye of public very quickly these days) instead. Chaykin was given the opportuntity (which he took) to produce the artwork for the first 10 issues of Marvel's "Star Wars" 1977 series. I believe the first 6 issues were a recounting of the movie and then he was given the oppotuntity to breakaway from movie's storyline and tell the tale of what happened afterwards. Quite an honour, but why was it given to Chaykin? Only Yoda knows.

Yes, it is cool when you find an underground in SF. I do not know what you would consider affordable but here are some recent sales of AP#1 from the last year. Someone got a bargain about a year ago - $26. Be patient and look everday and I would think that you should be able to land a higher grade copy for $50-75 within a year.

Bobby London Retrospective and Art Portfolio Published by: Cartoonists Representatives; Contributor: Bobby London; Date: 1977; Price: ncp; Page Count: 32 pages; Size: magazine; (8.5 x 11.0); Kennedy #: 305; Print information: one printing; number of copies unknown; For those who are unaware, Bobby London was a member of the infamous “Air Pirates” crew founded by Dan O'Neill that also included Shary Flenniken, Gary Hallgren, and Ted Richards. I will leave the history lesson to the comix historians, but will encourage those who are not familiar with the depressing “Air Pirates” saga to do a little research. There’s no false advertising within the title of the “Bobby London Retrospective and Art Portfolio”. It is a collection some of London’s Dirty Duck and Merton of the Movement strips with an occasional offer within to purchase the original art. Finding a copy will be a definite challenge.

Thanks for the post. It's a pretty well known bronze age independent/alternative series. In fact there's a really good summary of Star*Reach and its influence on the bronze age and then modern comics in a decent overview book called the Star*Reach Companion. If it is an interest to you: https://www.amazon.com/Star-Reach-Companion-Richard-Arndt/dp/1605490512

Sounds like a series of fun adventures! And thank you for partcipating in the old headcomix wiki and Guy's current underground thread. After exploring the comixjoint website when I first started (it's been 8 years!) collecting, both of those websites were the gasoline on the collecting fire.

Festival Comix #1 and #2 (purple cover/pink guts variant) Published by: Thru Black Holes Comix; Contributors: Michael Roden (#1 and #2); Michael Dowers (#1 and #2); Robert Armstrong (#1); XNO (#1); Bob X (#1); Brad Foster (#2); Date: 1984; 1985; Price: 50 cents; Page Count: 8 pages; Size: mini; (4.25 x 5.50); Kennedy #: published post guide; Print information: one printing; 200 copies of #1; 150 copies of #2 (2 colour variants; pink cover/purple guts; purple cover/pink guts); Festival Comix is representative of what I like to call Michael Roden’s “second period” of the early and mid 80s. It marks a period where Roden began to collaborate more frequently with other newave artists within their titles and his own TBHC imprint.

Cleve-Age Published by: self-published; Contributors: Tom Ciocia; Gary Dumm; Date: 1977; Price: ncp; Page Count: 24 pages; 10 single sided art pages; Size: large landscape; (14.75 x 9.0); Kennedy #: not cited; Print information: one printing; 50 copies (blue and green cover); 5 copies (red and green cover); A couple of years back, a friend spotted an example on eBay (which is still unsold) and reached out to me. I am grateful that he did, even though it is not technically an underground, it is a wonderful handmade, 10 page, non-mainstream comic strip collaboration between an Ohio sculptor (Tom Ciocia) and comic artist Gary Dumm (American Splendor and Flaming Baloney) in support of a gallery event featuring Ciocia's scuptures. I contacted Gary for more information about Cleve-Age and this is what he had to say: “That book of cartoon art tells the story of the Cleves, how they got here and what happened to them when they did. It was created by writer/ceramicist Tom Ciocia and myself in conjunction with a joint show that we had at a gallery in (near) Little Italy to celebrate Tom’s creation of his unique ceramic sculptural creations. Tom even made use of a couple of “failed” Cleves that he rolled over with a tire before firing the clay, that he called “Splats.” The cover was a limited edition silkscreen that I did. And there was also a larger image silkscreen that I did of the Cleves floating in front of the Cleveland Museum of Art. Tom made up the Cleves and their story (with a small amount of assistance in development from me) for the book. But the concept of ceramic creatures (or creatures that were out of synch with our time-frame - that is, they moved so slowly that they appeared to be sculptures!) was totally Tom’s.” Both variants use a woven polymer material (seems to become brittle over time) that are overprinted with a green silkscreen design. The 5 copy run of red and green cover was a test trial that was dropped in favour of blue and green cover version.

Sorry you are correct. I was mixed up and indeed the "phantom" price variant that I was thinking of involved Cheech/Schizophrenia, not Collected Cheech (as stated above by me). Please forgive the elderly and their delapidated memories. Thanks for having my back, wpbooks01.

Yes , wpbooks correctly responded a little before me, but please find the IFC images (50 cent cover with no ZIP code and phone number with an area code at the bottom of the IFC - thought to be the new first) and Kennedy's cited first (50 cent cover with ZIP code at the bottom of the IFC and phone number with area code). This discovery was made by a comic store owner when she was comparing her copies of Collected Cheech. The presumption is that the variant without a ZIP and area code was the first regional version sold locally within the area and was replaced with a national version (Kennedy's first) sold across the country. Makes sense to me. Oddly there was a rumour going back many years that there was a "true first printing" with a $1 cover price that has never been seen (because it does not exist?).

I doubt it also, but everyone should be aware that high grade copies are indeed selling for $1000+ compared to $20 about years ago. The highest recent sale that I know of is $1800 for NM trimmed version. IMO that way too much, but bubbles are what they are.

Beyond the 4rth O-Zone Published by: self-published; Contributor: Drew Foster; Date: 1978; Price: ncp; Page Count: 24 pages; Size: magazine; (8.5 x 11.0); Kennedy #: not cited; Print information: one printing; 1000 copies; One of the handful (if that many) of true underground comix with colour covers that the Fogel guide documented post-Kennedy. Kind of makes me wonder what would be the point of publishing (or buying) another later underground guide, if it only had a few more entries than the original publication. The “1,000 copies” also comes from the FUGG, but I suspect that the full story has yet to be documented. If in fact, 1,000 were produced back in 1978, then something must have happened to the bulk of this material, before it could be sold in the marketplace because examples almost never (to date) appear in the on-line market.

Agreed. The other thing is that Blair's early material recently slipped off the edge of being ignored and is now rapidly rising. I recall laughing (more eye rolling) when Doug Sulipa had posted some early coloured cover issues of Elflord about three years ago for $150 (9.2). Now I wish I had purchased them! Doug always gets the last laugh.

My hometown and the current appearance of Blair's long gone old shop

I think what I found puzzling or at least highly inconsistent isn’t that they wouldn’t grade an Eerie #1 due to them thinking it might be to easy to counterfeit, that’s a business decision for sure you could make. What I do find extremely illogical from a business point if that’s your position is why are you grading both original and counterfeit Cerebus #1’s? Having seen both original and counterfeit copies of Eerie #1 and Cerebus #1 are you going to sit there and tell me it’s possible to do a perfect copy of Eerie #1 and not possible to do a perfect Cerebus #1 if that’s your legitimate concern? That’s nonsense. It’s worse now with Cerebus since #1 is no longer the only issue counterfeited in that series. Seriously if you are going to do a counterfeit why waste your time on Eerie #1’s vs doing a Cerebus #1? It’s like counterfeiting a one dollar bill vs a twenty… Either way my copy is a established original counterfeit blue staples and all so all I wanted was to slab it because I really do dig that cover. If only Creepy #2 had it as a back cover to go along with its killer black front cover. I’m not sure the other guys will slab a real counterfeit too but I’m sure going to ask… To me, the big three big comic stories invloving a known infamous fake edition are the: Eerie ashcan, Cerebus #1 and Love and Rockets #1. The CGC currently certifies two of the the three. Why not the third and by far most important book? In addition, they do a pretty good job navigating the world of undergrounds and all of the printings, corresponding tells and changes with regard to information over time. I would have thought certifying undergrounds would be too small pototes and high risk for the CGC to bother and yet they do. To do a proper job of certifying an underground, the certifying company has to drill down and first determine which printing is the book they are about to grade and certify. It does not help us (ug collectors) if they grade a copy of "Big A*s Comix #1" without identfying which printing it is (tricky to do), so they do and label it as such. A member of another forum, recently disciovered the real first printing of "Collected Cheech Wizard" nearly fourty years since it was published in the first underground collecting guide. Our collecting community is not up in arms that the CGC has been certifying second printings as first printings up to this point. We recognize that they have been doing the best they can will the most current infomation available to them. There so many examples of "undergrounds" certified by the CGC that have been misidentified and are basically encapuslated mislabelled mistakes that all of the world can see. The underground community does not care because it understands the challenge, so why should the CGC fear the risk with regard to the ashcan? The other two non-CGCs also certify undergrounds and they are a disaster maybe not grading wise, but defintiely when it comes to the identification of the edition/printing. Zap Comix #2 as a true print (miscut heads edition) is worth hundreds and second edition is worth $20. Both of the "others" fail miserably with making this discinction with their certified Zap #2s. So it does not surprise me that one of them is now certifying the ashcan but not providing all of the information on the label. They are purposely "greying out" the issue. If the CGC are to cerify any comic, then they have perform restoration checks (deos the book have colour touch-ups, expert restoration, was it trimmed). I would have thought this would be more challenging to them (has the book been altered for the sake of a higher grade) than a side-by-side comparsion of a ashcan candiate to a master file copy.

A year later, since I posted the last example and with the context of the BW Elflord issues selling for $150 to $550 recently on eBay.

Thanks. I think I spotted the book within a couple hours of its posting and had to wait out a very long week until the final bidding. Yes, of course I intend on sharing. The book is headed up here to Canada now, I had to sent it to a friend (who took those images) in Pennsyslvia since Bill Pearson would not sell outside of the US. Another waiting period for me. I will get a pro to rule on how it was printed, do some measurements especially staple placement, check if the paper fluoscences, etc. Once some information is in hand and basic unknowns cleared up, then I would like to approach the CGC about finally accepting these for certification. There should be no reason why litho all B&W could not be, especially when they already certify (many, many) books that are known to be produced by their creator via photocopy. Also I would be willing to lend them the Pearson copy if it helped to change their mind on the policy.

Cholo #1 Published by: self-published; possibly with the assistance of Gary Arlington’s San Francisco Comic Company (SFCC); Contributors: Roger Brand; and others; Date: 1980; Price: $2.50; Page Count: 44 single sided pages; Size: magazine; (8.5 x 11.0); Kennedy #: 451; Print information: one printing; number of copies unknown; Someone recently messaged me about another Roger Brand effort that (not listed in the Kennedy guide) in a previous posting (Mission District - page 11 of this thread) and that they were interested in a similar publication that was listed in the guide – Cholo #1. Like Mission District, Cholo #1: Mainly features Brand using his “Del Fuego” pseudonym in a series of one pagers printed on multi-coloured stock. Unlike Mission District, Cholo has and really suffers from the "others", Brand used in the book. A third of the book's page are decidated to amatuers and most of it should have stayed on the drawing board (or kitchen table). Published in a strange format: bound front to back with 3 brass fasteners on the right instead of the left. It easy to mistake the back cover for the front (Kennedy made this mistake). When the book is opened, the one sided pages are formatted to appear as similar pairs – blank/blank, turn page, art page/art page. There's another cover on the inside (see pink image below). Also be aware that there are at least two other issues of Cholo (not guide listed) that look very similar to the first issue, so it's important when trying to locate a copy to look at the back cover (guy/dog, issue number, cover price) which is really the front cover in Brand's world.

Agreed. Pretentious or worse. I would be surprised if it was not litho. The only things supporting the publisher grade early photocopy is based on speculation and theory. There's Warren's/Goodwin's statement on how quickly it was produced (24 hours) and Goodwin's use of "special line repro process (or whatever)" in an interview, that some read as a non-litho process. And reading into the statement from the CGC as to why they do not certify copies "using a process that cannot be authenticated" again or whatever the specific statement was. It's probably going to be litho and the above can be explained away as just being false assumptions by the reader. There's a lot of smoke surrounding this one and I actually want that issue to be cleared up once and for all. Same would go for the "blue staple" books. I would want to finally 100% know how these were produced and if it differed from the real copy. I believe as part of one those splintered thread about the ashcan, someone had put the claim out there: real edition had to be produced quickly (photocopy) and the blue staple edition was produced by an insider who had access to the pre-press art at Warrne and time to use litho. Could you imagine, in the unlikely event if this was true! The thing I would caution on is judging whether something is litho or produced by some other means, based upon its darkness, mattness, shininess or print quality. I am an underground collecotor and I am embrassed to reveal that I did not know that nearly all minis were xeroxes, not litho. These are later date pubs (1981 instead of 1965) but they are pretty good and dark:

Thank you. You are too kind. I just needed a real example (it took years) to start chipping away at some this and to share any findings with others. Whenever I needed guidance or information on the Ashcan, I was always directed here by the on-line search. I have benefited from the experiences and thoughts of others, including yourself on the subject and hopefully we can start closing some "not too sures". Have you ever read the arrogant taunting message posted by someone within one the heavily splintered ashcan threads? They claimed to know everything about about how to distinguish an actual copy from the rest and posted about 10 comments/questions to the community: how was the ashcan printed, how thick is its paper stock, etc. and never shared a single answer or any information! What a goof. Give me about 6 months and I will return with an answer - photocopy vs litho and anything else that I can share