CDNComix

It's a very rare, probably non-underground but a DIY fantasy comic series. It is cited (small cover image of #1) in the FUGG 2015/16, probably because one of the guide's senior advisors always has had pushed for it to be listed as an underground. I have never seen an example of any of the series for sale, let alone handled a copy, so I cannot offer any more.

I was the person (along with one other bidder) who took a chance and bid on the "Bill Pearson" copy of the ashcan. It's always been importnat to me to find a copy with close to "ironclad" provedience that extends all the back to Archie Goodwin and its publication in 1965. Bill's auction posting suffered from a lack of information and its provision of a single image of the front cover that was touched up to remove the cover staining (he described in auction description). To frank the posting looked scammy (first image below). I was fortunate enough to win the auction and to receive in fact what turned out to be a real copy. In the way provendience, Bill signed the splash page, composed a handwritten letter (describing how he was involved and under what circumstances he obtained the copy) and provided it with the book and in addition there's the package with Bill's handwritten address. I was never in doubt that the person selling the book was Bill Pearson, but I was more concerned with the when and how he got it. It has always bothered me that "we" do not 100% know if the book was produced by Warren as an early publisher-grade photocopy or via standard litho. I will try to find a reasonably priced forensic document expert to provide a short report with their conclusion on this and I will share with everyone. If it does turn out to be litho, then I do not understand why the CGC will not certify copies. If they conclude that it was produced as an early photocopy by Warren, then the reluctance by the CGC will be supported and a serious issue for collectors will remain - how do you know if your copy (or the one you are considering to purchase) is real?

I would say that the underground market has been in decline or sluggish for about five years. Hardest hit are the: commons from the bigger publishers. If there are 20 examples on eBay then good luck selling an example. rarer but still realtively common keys such as FFFB #1, Ozone #1. Compare the pricing listed by the FUGG 2015 and what keys are actualizing at auction today. However there are some exceptions, the including: freakishly rare items (especially those listed by Kennedy) that are a still on the "want lists" of many longterm collectors often has more one than one "deep pockets" collector bidding; and as a longterm member on this board/thread (Brother J) ) pointed out 2-3 years ago, the Ebon series, due to its being an early African-American comic, not as an underground. Mid-grades are easily going for about a $1000 or apparatently now for more. IMO, it's actually a great time to be collecting undergrounds which are undervalued relative to the mainstreams. If one were to pay a few hundred today for a certified 7.0 Freak Brothers #1, then what is the risk of it depreciating further over time vs the potential for an upward trend over the longterm?

Amy and Jordan at Beach Lake (first and second printing) Published by: self-published; Contributor: Mark Beyer; Date: 1980; 1983; Price: no cover price; Page Count: 12 pages; Size: mini; (3 7/16 x 4.0); (3 5/8 x 4.25); Kennedy #: 69; second printing not cited post publicationof guide (1982); Print information: first printing of 500 copies; second signed printing, number of copies unknown; Avert your gaze, if you are not into: minis, newave, art brut or later printings. Anyone remaining and reading this? When I first began collecting undergrounds, I was like most and tended to only focus on standard sized underground comix that had colour covers. But when things were slow in this area, I began to track down some of the newave minis cited by Kennedy and in the other guides and eventually developed a strong appreciation for this sub-group. If you presently share my early dismissive attitude towards newave minis, I suggest that you consider the work of Raw magazine protégé and man mystery, Mark Beyer. Who knows, maybe you will find that books like Amy and Jordan at Beach Lake, do have a place in your heart and collection. In the images below, the paler slightly smaller, first printing is always on top relative to the second printing.

There were only two bidders on what potentially could be an original creator (Bill Pearson) copy of an actual ashcan. I was surprised by the lack bidding activity (there were 34 watchers) and the final price when the listing ended. The explanation is easy the posting suffered from: a lack detail including its one posted washed out image; not making it clear to most who's copy was being offered and the fact that another ashcan example closed one day later which may have drawn potential bidders away because of its low starting bid ($10 opposed to $900 for Bill's copy) and detailed images. That second copy sold yesterday for just over $1300 which is in the range of past realized copies. Which is surprising to me, because it looks like if it could have the same "issues of concern" that I have seen on other examples. I am not saying that the copy is not real but there was enough there to give me pause and decide not to bid. It looks to be nearly identical to the copy I had returned about 4 years ago to a seller who had a copy as part of original owner Warren collection (sound familiar), including: thin black lines at the bottom and sides of the front and back covers (possibly page edges on a second generation photocopy or litho plate marks?); black speckles on the topside of the page in areas where darker solid art appears on the opposite page - noticeable in the back cover around the titles (could be explained by someone turning up the contrast to achieve darker "darks", which would cause some of the speckling); more pronounced breaking in the lettering of the paste-up typological info. I find that potential buyers focus too much on the Overstreet checks which only really serves to distinguish a real copy from the specific unauthorized "blue staple" edition. This copy of concern (for me) passes all of the Overstreet checks. Someone was good enough to post a "gold standard" example of the ashcan signed off by Jim Warren (and Kirby) a few pages back. Beyond being an amazing book, I also view it as a handy exemplar that can be used to compare copies for the presence of other characteristics beyond Overstreet. The "gold standard" has none of those extra characteristics featured on yesterday's example. This should have been an issue for someone who paid $1300 for yesterday's "passed the Overstreet checks" copy. My real concern these days is not potentially buying a "blue staple" copy as a first, but those countless unauthorized copies that came afterward. Imagine what a professionally trained individual with modern professional equipment can effectively reproduce nowadays - degrees, currency. Reproducing a blacked out bald man or some roof lines would definitely not be not a challenge as long as they had access to one real example to start with.

Veeva La Mutation Copulation Published by: Print Mint; Contributor: Lee Conklin; Date: 1971; Price: $2.50; Page Count: 52 pages; Size: elephant (11.0 x 16.75); Kennedy #: not cited; Print information: one printing; 5000 copies; includes a limited edition of 20 s/n copies; If you are into slightly ignored things that are also big and purple, then 1971 should hold a special place in your heart. That was the year a McDonald’s mascot named Grimace was born. Back then, he had four thieving arms and had an additional name - “Evil Grimace”. The poor fellow was re-launched many times over the years (dropped two arms, his criminal tendencies and the name “Evil”), until his unceremonious retirement from commercials in 1985. In the same year, Print Mint published a very large paperback show casing the early rock concert poster (14 Bill Graham Presents posters) and ink sketch art of Lee Conklin. It is definitely not a comic and is more psychedelic than underground. But I am surprised Kennedy did not cite this one, because of its tie-in with an important underground publisher, like his citing pf Rip-Off Press’s publication of a children’s story – Pet Elephant. His guide lists several other art portfolio publications by non-underground artists. But why ignore this one? To its credit, Dan Fogel included Veeva La Mutation Copulation in his guide and is the only source (that I could find) which identifies the limited edition. I do not know who borrowed from whom, but Fogel and most on-line sources state a page count of 48. In fact, it has a total of 52 pages which should include the 4 cover pages, as per convention. Finding an example in a decent condition at an affordable price could pose a challenge. Strong examples very rarely appear on the market. The less than perfect copy shown here is better than most other copies that I have seen. Nearly all suffer from conditions like breaking spine tics, rubbed off ink and issues with the glued binding. You get the sense that colour saturated ink was designed to pop off. I do suspect that some of the imperfections found on my copy (and on others) originated during its printing. Some of the print voids and edge fades look to be caused a missing composite colour in the print, rather than physically rubbed off ink.

That's great news! Careful though. Posting UK undergrounds will surely attract UK underground collectors. I hear they are a bad lot in general l

I am glad that this thread has gone on with fresh activity. I am mainly an underground collector but the Eerie ashcan is one one of my all time wants. I love the subject and its history but I would never buy a copy (if I could afford it) unless it was it had an ironclad provenance like the one one posted by eccomic (beautiful BTW). I have seen copies sell with the blessing from the "experts" from ComicConnect, Heritage, dealers and CGC consultants. But I would assume that what these groups are doing is just running through the Over Street checks - size, print quality, bald man, roof etc. I do not believe that these checks (even if affirmative) are adequate protection against later date high quality photo reproductions. When evaluating copies, past discussions in the collecting community sometimes focus on the "print gloss". The premise is that a real printing has a slightly shiny sheen of a litho print, while photo reproductions are more matte. Within my collection of undergrounds I have many examples that run in different directions: matte litho, shiny litho, matte photocopy and shiny photocopy. I believe that there is no useable rule here, except that an "unknown" copy should have the same print sheen as a known first printing (which I have never held). There's still debate whether if Warren actually "litho printed" the ashcan or used some other means available to publishers backs in the mid-60s. Some assume that the ashcan was produced through some other means and draw the conclusion that is the main why the CGC will not certify a copy - even though they certify other photo copied books from around the same era. Many of which were just bought to Kinko's for the "print" run.

The Great Marijuana Debate Published by: Kitchen Sink Enterprises; Contributors: Peter Poplaski; Kim Deitch; Denis Kitchen; Jay Lynch; Date: 1972; Price: 10 cents; Page Count: 8 pages; Size: mini (5.5 x 7.0); Kennedy #: 902; Print information: one printing; 400 copies; The Great Marijuana Debate was created by Denis Kitchen and three well known buddies who circled the Kitchen Sink orbit from time to time in other underground publications. It is definitely uncommon in the marketplace beyond the fact it had cited print run of 400 copies. I consider it to be one of higher quality production value, early minis because of its higher quality textured stock and actual litho print. High quality production, strong contributions from four underground pioneers that is laced with serious socio-political commentary on marijuana use and policies in the early 70s. Evidently Jay Kennedy thought so also with a guide stated price of $30 (1982). Oddly that’s what I would consider as being in the vicinity of today's fair market value ($50ish).

Shelby Kirch was a NY city cab driver and an early underground comix enthusiast. I consider him to have started one of the first underground "guides" with his checklists. there are earlier versions of both of these with 25 cent covers. Imagine its the mid 70s, there is no internet or published collecting guides, but having to instead to rely comic shops, white pages, phone and mail for information or to find comix. Considering the time and situation, he did a remarkable job with his checklists.

I believe it was that series that started it all for me with regard to the UKs. I am more of a dabbler though. BSC #1 is not that bad to find, you should be able to find several copies on eBay every year or try eBay.uk. I will keep an eye open for you if you want.

I was wondering if you were going to reply this when I first saw the post! It was "comixbible" (the most knowledgeable collectors that I know, but I only know one) who pointed this series out to me a few years ago.

Welcome aboard yourself "salamandersleaz"! I love your posts and based on that I believe you have found the right space within the CGC. This thread was intended to discuss the lessor known "underground" and "small press" titles. The stuff not on comixjoint, which Steve Fox has done a great of already promoting. If you want to sell something than just offer a reach out that is external to this thread via a PM. CGC rules not mine. In fact I will contact you shortly. I have never in fact have heard of "OMAR" (David Omar White), maybe because it's a little earlier and not a true comix. But it is a definitely a book I now have an interest in and will be searching for. Thanks for posting it! Purple Warp is one of my favourite comix groups. I am still working on getting the first five issues. I was intending to post them as group when I completed the entire set (50 years from now), but you beat me to it! You mentioned that you do not have a Kennedy guide. I do recommend getting a cheap used one, so you can save yourself the grief of unintentionally buying something like a Purple Warp 8-9 without the "Faces" insert. I (and most other collectors) have purchased something in the past without realizing its incomplete and have to purchase another copy.

Har Dee Har Har Comics (newsprint double cover edition with sketches) Published by: Sphincter Productions; Contributor: Greg Sadowski; Date: 1978; Price: 50 cents; Page Count: 24 pages (double cover edition; outer newsprint cover with sketches on front and back insides); Size: digest (5.5 x 8.5); Kennedy #: 949; Print information: one printing; two main variants; single cover with standard stock; double cover with outer newsprint cover and inner standard cover; 100 copies with an amended citation by Kennedy of 500 copies; A few interesting things going on with this title. In the Kennedy guide, Jay failed to note that the “newsprint edition” had double cover and that the newsprint cover wrapper was on the outside and not on the inside (standard stock). Any newsprint version that I have seen has double covers, where the extra newsprint cover was added to the standard comic. Why would Sadowski do that? In order to have a vehicle for the hand sketched doddles that he added to his special edition. I am aware that some newsprint editions do not have the doodles. This would nicely reconcile the 100 vs 500 copy citation, perhaps there were 500 non-newsprint standard copies of which 100 copies received the special treatment by Sadowski (extra cover with sketched). Interesting to note that a few post Kennedy, on-line citations about HDHH claim that it published while Sadowski attended a New Jersey High School. Definitely possible, but is it accurate? There are a few specialized underground collectors who follow stuff like this (undergrounds made by students). You would have to ask one, or Sadowski. Probably better off not to ask Fogel. IMO that sort of overly specialized underground collector saddens me greatly, even worse are the tiny fraction within this tiny group who actually grew-up in New Jersey, like Sadowski. Double sad, like the double cover of HDHH.

My Big Banana (green and gold, matte cover variant) Published by: Wagtale Comix; Contributors: Teri Milke; Russ Brutsche; Katrina; Jerry Carlson; Bob Bergman; Pace; Date: 1969; Price: 75 cents; Page Count: 52 pages; Size: comic (6.5 x 9.5); Kennedy #: 1338; Print information: one printings; two colour variants; number of copies unknown; I would describe My Big Banana as a hippie illustrated version of the Song of Solomon. A very early underground with true colour covers produced as two (and maybe three) colour variants. I would not consider it to be an ultra-rare as a whole, since copies of the “blue and yellow” glossy cover regularly appear on the market about once ever year or two. However, copies of the matte, “green and gold” cover version, shown here, are almost non-existent. More of a teal than a green. Fogel cites a third colour variant in his 2015 guide - blue/grey. Based on the "quality" of some of the other scholarly acumen published by that group, I will reserve the existence of the third variants to be "unconfirmed" until I locate an actual copy. It would not surprise me if the "blue/grey" turns out to be a "black/grey" photocopy.

Interesting, even though its a little beyond the date brackets of the this thread. To be truthful, I have never heard of it and will ask around and respond if some info turns up. Thanks.

Creation Story Verbatim!! Published by: Institute for the Development of Harmonious Human Being; Contributors: E.J. Gold; Lin Larson; Lynn Shanks; Date: 1973; Price: no cover price; Page Count: 40 pages; Size: magazine (8.25 x 10.75); Kennedy #: 537; Print information: unknown; An alternative-establishment religious comic from the self-proclaimed, “perceptual scientist”, E.J Gold. I have seen another text based edition (limited 200 copies) that was published in the same year (comix edition June 1973) in a text based format with spot illustrations using different art. Which edition was published first is a little “chicken or egg” for my taste and would exceed my dose of metaphysics for the day.

The Brute Comix Published by: self-published; Contributors: Rick A. Scheinaus; Brian Steelman; Date: 1973; Price: 50 cents; Page Count: 36 pages; Size: magazine (8.5 x 10.75); Kennedy #: 335; Print information: unknown; Early and very rare, Brute Comix is not exactly a “household name” among underground collectors and does not garner much attention from them.

I am a fan of MAD but not a collector, nice thread. Would any one know what issue, a one page gag appeared that parodied those: "Want to be an artist? Draw this and send back for a professional evaluation" comic ads. The one page gag was a compilation of the horse drawings that were done by MAD stable of artists (about dozen of the greats).

Charles Burns’ Mail Zine Set Published by: self-published; Contributor: Charles Burns; Date: possibly 1979-1981; Price: giveaway; Page Count: 10 pages; one illustrated cover page; seven single sided comic pages; two blank pages (inner first and outer last page); Size: magazine (8.0 x 11.0); Kennedy #: not cited; Print information: unknown; Many years ago, I had purchased had an early Charles Burns magazine sized comic. It’s untitled, undated and unsigned and looks to be an unpublished work. I have always loved Burns’ signature woodcut style that would propel him to fame by the mid-nineties. But the style of the zine appears to be thinner and earlier than the typical Burns – possibly an early work. When and why the zine was made would have been pure speculation, if seller had not also sent along the two other items that Charles Burns had included his correspondence (2 postcards one of which contains a letter page). Unlike many of his underground contemporaries, Charles Burns is not really known for producing postcards at the beginning of his career. In fact, until I saw these, I never knew that he produced any until later in his career as an established artist. There are no examples on-line that I could easily find. The first postcard is a standard card that was produced in 1980 by Card Attack, San Francisco. Both Burns and his wife (Kelly Detweiler) are credited on its back (no image of back just front). The second is a large landscape card that is folded into three, blank on the reverse, that includes a hand printed letter page from Burns that yields many clues with dating the fanzine: “I have a full color page and black and white page in Raw #3 (due to be out in about 2 weeks)” Raw #3 – the earlier magazine (1981) and not the later volume two Penguin anthology book (1991). The color single page is “... and I pressed....” and the black white single page story is the famous “Dog Boy”. “I have: an 18 page comic…to be printed in Death Rattle Comix” Death Rattle #1 – volume 2 (1985), not the earlier first volume from the 70s. I guess the “(God knows when)” turned out to be over four years later. I wondered what happened to cause such delay? “I have “mysteries of the flesh” 1 or 2 pages appeared in “Another Room” Another Room Vol.2 No.5 “2nd Anniversary Issue” – the first issue has a cited publication date of 1978, second anniversary about 1980. “I have a 20 page photo comic that I have been trying to publish for 2 years” It’s probably either going to “The Cat Woman Returns” (1979) or “Ill Bred' “1979). Conclusion: I am highly confident that the latest the untitled Charles Burns’ fanzine would have been published would have been in 1979/1980 at the latest at the age of 24 or 25. However it even could be earlier, I will probably never know all of the details since Charles Burns does not wish to talk to me!

Yes, it's unbelievable. Nearly all underground collectors are aware of the Zap Comix #4 trials - where the publisher/seller was shackled before the courts, not the artists. But few are aware of the injustices/ordeal that Mike Diana was submitted to over 15 years later. Reminds me of the "butterfly on the wheel" marijuana possession trial of Mick Jagger.

Thanks for this SC666 and I am glad that someone else besides myself also has an interest in this often overlooked collecting area. Good luck with your efforts with tracking down AF.

I opened that can of worms a few years back when I purchased a copy of Boiled Angel Eight (Ate) - the issue that got Mike Diana into all that legal trouble. I contacted his website looking for more info regarding the early original editions vs the later editions he now sells. The person who answered on Diana's behalf just ended up confusing me more (with regard to telling the difference between a a first edition and a later one) and I never worked out the whole story. I believe (I discarded their messages) that the first 6 issues of Boiled Angel were published by Red Stew and have coloured inner stock opposed to white stock (later editions). Is there a difference in publishing info (dates, or identifies later edition) between an original and a later edition), I could not determine from Mike's on-line representative. In addition issues #7 and #8 have editions published by Mike Hunt (not Red Stew). Was there an earlier edition for these two issues, again Mike's contact did not (could not) answer my question. i would to work this out.

Cook’s Night Out Published by: self-published; Contributor: Greg C. or S. Smith; Date: copyrighted 1971; Price: 50 cents; Page Count: 28 pages; Size: comic (7.0 x 9.75); Kennedy #: not cited; Print information: unknown; As mentioned, in my very last post I mentioned that Kennedy skipped citing many titles, those he must have known about like the UK pubs and the many, many US underground titles that he did not. Within the "unknown to Kennedy" pile, the vast majority are regional all B&W undergrounds (Xerox's) that were created and sold (or at least attempted) within the local geographical area of its creator. In my opinion, his guide did an excellent job of identifying underground comix with colour covers. Cook's Night Out is one that he missed probably because it was a self-published, local that probably is unknown to all except for its creator and his friends and family. Copyrighted in 1971 and published (then or later?) by who I believe to be a Greg C. Smith (it could be an "S" see third image upside down lower page). It appears to be the only known (documented or listed) to date. In 2013 the same copy sold at Heritage which was auctioned off on eBay in 2019 (to me ).

Thanks Albert T. and kapzilla for the post and the comments on "Near Myths" which does deserve broader attention. It seems that Kennedy intentionally skipped citing comix published outside of North America (US and Canada) and listed only one UK pub within his guide, excluding the two "US" publications he listed that definitely/probably had a start within the UK first. Does anyone know which purely UK publication is the only one cited by Kennedy? Answer: After-Dinner Sleights and Pocket Tricks (Kennedy #28), David Walklett. See comments and image posted by "Comixbible". Does any one know which two publications cited by Kennedy probably were first published in the UK? Answers: 1) The Pink Floyd (Kennedy #1533). There is a UK and US edition of this publication, but Kennedy only identified the US edition within his guide. Was he aware of the UK edition which could have been published before the US edition (needs conformation). 2) Class War Comix (Kennedy #462), Clifford Harper, 1979, Kitchen Sink. I only found out last year that the fairly common US edition of Class War Comix had an earlier UK tabloid predecessor called New Times Class War (Clifford Harper, 1974, Epic Productions). If your name rhythms with "Pricktor" then please do not answer.