@therealsilvermane

On 3/31/2023 at 1:27 AM, kimik said:

 

For example, this page could be a storyboard for a Hank-Jan love scene in an Ant-Man movie. It uses different camera angles and sequential action to tell a story, just like a movie.

On 3/30/2023 at 8:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

film is a higher art form than the comics.

On 3/30/2023 at 8:12 PM, Mr Sneeze said:

A completely different medium I would say. I will stop there.

Are they that different, though? Yes, one medium is experienced as a moving image with sound on a screen, the other is viewed on a page, but both could be seen as different forms of sequential visual art. If you've ever been to a comic book sequential art class (and I have), you might hear that a comic book page could almost be a storyboard page for a movie, as both movies and comic books tell a story primarily through visuals. IMO, cinema and comic books might actually be the two artistic mediums that have the most in common with each other.

On 3/30/2023 at 9:36 PM, Gatsby77 said:

?

IMDB (as in...regular movie audiences) have ranked The Dark Knight as the # 3 movie of all time, behind only The Shawshank Redemption and The Godfather.

Yes - the IMDB list has a recency bias - but The Dark Knight is easily as good as - and far more accessible than - films like Tokyo Story or City Lights.

I’m not talking about comic book movies specifically here. I’m talking about cinema vs the comic book. 

Not even to mention the complexity of craftsmanship and human hours it takes to make a film compared to a comic book. 

On 3/30/2023 at 8:43 PM, Cat said:

Do you know where you are?

Wow. 

Yeah, a forum for comic book MOVIE discussion. The truth hurts? I mean, take the highest examples of comic book art, say Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, and they can’t stand up to  the highest examples of cinematic art, whether it’s Citizen Kane, Seven Samurai, Vertigo, Tokyo Story, Star Wars, City Lights, or any other movie from any top 100 list.

On 3/30/2023 at 11:21 AM, jsilverjanet said:

they are movies based on comics - those comic stories were never really that good to begin with and the good stories were stripped down to appeal to the masses or due to the characters they could use (no FF, no X-men, no Spiderman)

 

I'd say in a lot of cases, the movies are better than the comics, disregarding the fact that film is a higher art form than the comics. In the MCU's case, it's my opinion that a lot of these characters have found their perfect form in the films. I'd say that about Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor, Doctor Strange, Wanda, T'Challa, and yes, Carol Danvers. Heck I'd say the Eternals movie is probably better than the comics.

On 3/30/2023 at 4:48 PM, drotto said:

Beyond over analyzing this, it does put the MCU on hold till at least the hearing in May.  How can Marvel work on half its current projects, without knowing where this goes. If they push forward and he is guilty, then they will be forced into major changes. If he is 100% exonerated, they can't replace him based on false accusations, because that would be a PR nightmare.

Loki 2 has already wrapped filming, and we can assume it's in post-production. Given the current tone of this news story in the media and the public, I think Marvel Studios stays the course with Loki 2 and keeps Jonathan Majors' Professor Timely in the edit.

The only MCU film currently filming right now I think is Captain America New World Order, which is not a Kang storyline. So I don't think Majors' arrest controversy really affects anything right now.

On 3/30/2023 at 12:00 PM, drotto said:

For now.  With Alonso and Perlmutter gone, Feige is basically the last person standing at the MCU.  There is nobody else left to scapegoat. So if the downward trend continues, it will eventually fall on him.  Granted it may take 2 or 3 years more of this.

 

Also, with Feige already stretched thin, how does he now handle a greater workload as those beneath him are fired?

Ike Permutter was never part of Marvel Studios. At one time, Marvel Studios had to answer to the larger Marvel Entertainment, headed by Perlmutter. That ended years ago, around 2017, I believe.

Louis D'Esposito, Nate Moore, and other high level producers are still at Marvel Studios. Also if quality over quantity is going to be a real thing at Marvel Studios, and it looks like it is, then the workload may actually be lighter.

On 3/30/2023 at 2:42 AM, godzilla43 said:

He probably was talking about  Eternals, Shang-Chi, Black Knight, Yelena Belova, Shuri, Ironheart, Ms Marvel etc.

Oh, I know exactly what Zack the boy was talking about. My question if he forgot Loki, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, etc was rhetorical. Although something tells me if Eternals was more about Black Knight, he wouldn't have had a problem with that.

But the statement was "focus on unfamiliar characters", plain and simple. However, only two out of the seven feature films of Phase Four were films about brand new heroes, Shang-Chi and Eternals(which includes the Black Knight). The other five movies were sequels to established well known MCU characters. Yes, they introduced new heroes within those films, but MCU sequel films have always done that. Iron Man 2 wasn't just Iron Man, it also introduced Black Widow and War Machine. Captain America Winter Soldier introduced Falcon and Winter Soldier Bucky. Thor Ragnarok introduced Valkyrie and Korg. 

While Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness introduced America Chavez, it was still a Doctor Strange movie that featured his spiritual hero journey and power-up to be the Superior Dr. Strange of the multiverse. Thor Love and Thunder may have introduced Jane Foster Thor, but the movie was still Thor's spiritual journey of getting through a god's mid-life crisis. Wakanda Forever introduced a new Black Panther because T'Challa died, and Shuri was not an unfamiliar character in the MCU by any means, as she was a fan favorite from the first film. Just as Phase Two and Three sequel movies introduced new characters yet kept it the main hero's story, so did the Phase Four sequels.

Zack the boy twists facts and spins truth in his little MCU Phase comparison chart meme to further his agenda. He would have us believe in his meme chart that all the Phase Four movies failed (which they didn't) because they featured unfamiliar characters, which is a falsehood. For him, if any Phase Four movie failed critically or at the box office, it couldn't have had anything to do with rushed screenplays because of a crowded workload and release schedule or some other breakdown in the filmmaking process, but had everything to do with focusing on "unfamiliar characters." That's bs.

On 3/28/2023 at 10:41 PM, Bo1983 said:

Great. More anti-Phase Four propaganda generated by toxic YouTubers. (sigh) Work is never done…

Yes, even Kevin Feige admits that the MCU hasn’t been full on zeitgeist recently , which is why they’re now focusing on quality over content. Rushed scripts, rushed schedules, and rushed post-production might have resulted in a few projects that could’ve used more time in all phases of production (like Love and Thunder or QuAntuMania) But this list’s creator is so focused on his apparent anti-woke agenda that that’s all he seems to be considering here.

Ya Boi Zack is comparing 3 complete MCU phases that have 5 Avengers movies (including Civil War) to 1.1 MCU phases that don’t  have an Avengers movie yet and was, as Kevin Feige said, a phase where Marvel is trying new things. Real fair…

Matt Fraction’s Hawkeye, Jason Aaron’s Thor, Dan Slott’s She-Hulk, and Warren Ellis’s Moon Knight were all popular critically acclaimed comics stories. 

Although Black Widow might’ve had an underlying theme of trafficking women maybe, I fail to see any underlying agendas in the stories of Shang-Chi, Eternals, Spider-Man No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever, or QuAntuMania. These movies focused on superhero journeys, it just so happens that a lot of critics didn’t like three of these movies. By stories with agendas, does Zack the boy mean the diverse heroes ?

Phase Four focused on unfamiliar characters? Are Black Widow, Spiderman, Doctor Strange, Loki, Clint Barton, Thor, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, and Prince Namor unfamiliar characters?

One show in Phase Four poked fun at the fans, She-Hulk, which also poked fun at Marvel Studiios, because the show is a 4th wall breaking meta comedy series. Ask Will Smith, some guys can’t take jokes. 

Unrecognizable character? Some characters in Phase Four are almost literally lifted out of the comics, including Kate Bishop, Kamala Khan, and She-Hulk. Yes, Shang -Chi doesn’t really resemble his 70-80’s comic book version and that’s a good thing, because while it was maybe fine then, it’s outdated as heck now.

Yes, that’s correct, Victoria Alonso was promoted to head of VFX after Phase Three. I didn’t see poor VFX in Zack boy’s tilted list of faux comparisons.

On 3/29/2023 at 1:43 AM, kimik said:

The question I have is why? Go with someone younger that can be there when Ruffalo is replaced like the other leads.

Bringing back characters from past stories to new ones makes those older stories more relevant and gives a little more cohesiveness to the larger MCU. Bringing back Jane Foster and Darcy from Thor or using scenarios from Thor Dark World in Avengers Endgame had the same effect. 

The characters being brought back from Incredible Hulk are Betsy Ross and Tim Blake Nelson’s Sam Stearns aka The Leader.

On 3/29/2023 at 1:38 PM, drotto said:

Alonso was far better news.  Feige at this point would be the best news.

You can view Alonso’s firing as positive or negative, but it was still a turmoil moment for Marvel Studios. Perlmutter is the guy Feige had to fight to get Black Panther and Captain Marvel made, which both eventually grossed a billion plus each. That alone should’ve been grounds for firing years ago.

Finally some good news. Marvel Entertainment head Ike Perlmutter is out at Disney.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/marvel-entertainment-chairman-isaac-perlmutter-out-disney-1235363074/

On 3/28/2023 at 8:20 PM, TupennyConan said:

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/marvel-jonathan-majors-victoria-alonso-ant-man-box-office-1235567085/

'Bad things come in threes' according to the laws of the universe, so the Majors arrest should about wrap it up. (fyi, QuAntuMania box office performance was the first) Looking forward to the success of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3...

On 3/28/2023 at 7:24 PM, D84 said:

Jonathan Majors deserves due process, like we all do. The evidence has to be submitted to the courts and processed.

Truth is they owe us nothing. The attorney's job is to keep him out of jail, not appease you sense of entitlement.

Okay well the longer this festers in the court of public opinion the guiltier he looks, and the court of public opinion can be way more damaging than any legal decision.

About that Jonathan Majors evidence his attorney promised that clears him.. 

On 3/27/2023 at 9:56 PM, thegiftedone45 said:

We could have a Punisher, Luke Cage and Iron Fist, etc. show and instead have Echo and Agatha.......Man what are they thinking?

There’s already a Punisher, Iron Fist, and a Luke Cage series available to stream on Disney+ now. There’s even a Jessica Jones series if you’re interested.

On 3/27/2023 at 1:47 AM, Beastfeast said:

I don't think that the MCU has ever made good movies.  They've been fun and entertaining but these things aren't exactly high cinema.  

That being said, I re-watched Infinity War a few weeks ago and it's pretty bad.  It has all the same awful tropes that the new phases have.  However, it was a huge wrap up of years of fun movies that almost everyone was stoked to see.  As someone else said - it was an event.

There was a newness to the shared universe and it's just lost its luster.  I don't think it's much deeper than that.  Some of yall are acting like these were ever well told stories.   

I think Infinity War was more than just a mash-up end-of-year superhero event movie. There’s a real story there, too. But with all the characters, whose story? It’s argued that it’s Thanos’s story.

MCU films, almost by formula, are stories where the protagonist’s mission is also a spiritual journey that is visually marked by a superhero power up. For instance in Thor, when he becomes the guy willing to sacrifice himself for others, he becomes worthy, and thus regains the power of Thor. In Captain Marvel, when Carol regains her memories and remembers who she was, she frees herself from the Kree brainwashing and becomes Captain Marvel. 

For Thanos in Infinity War, his mission to obtain each Infinity Stone is spiritually stained by the loss of his soldier children, one-by-one through the film, the most painful being Gamora at his own hands. When he achieves all the Stones and the ultimate power-up, he even loses part of himself physically. In the end, we see him in his garden at peace with himself for what he’s lost and gained. In Infinity War, the villain is the protagonist, which is a pretty unique twist on the superhero movie.

The video is edited to make it look like Levi is saying Shazam is better than John Wick. He actually says the movie is better than what critics say. 

On 3/26/2023 at 2:58 PM, godzilla43 said:

If you wanna compare this to Johnny Depp-Amber Heard case don't you find it strange that with all that publicity that case had and Johnny Deep being a huge star there was no other alleged incidents of Johnny being abusive with other women. It has been now just one day and there is more rumors about Jonathan Majors being a person like this. Many times where there smoke there is fire.

You mean the long list of two dudes with private Twitter accounts who went to film school or something with Jonathan Majors who said that he's a horrible human being and a major a**hole? Okay

On 3/26/2023 at 3:10 PM, Bosco685 said:

Because he couldn't believe people were comparing these situations. I have to agree with him.

You mean the first situation where the public immediately rushed to judge and condemn a man in a celebrity domestic dispute, and the second situation where the public immediately rushed to judge and condemn a man in a celebrity domestic dispute? Those two situations? What was it that Bruce Lee once said about a finger pointing the way to the moon..?

On 3/26/2023 at 3:02 PM, Bosco685 said:

Exactly!

Bruce Lee probably just did a one-inch punch in his grave just now.

On 3/26/2023 at 1:57 PM, october said:

Disney is still living in the days where they could slap the MCU brand on any obscure character, follow their formula, and print money. That model is deader than fried chicken...likely for good.

I mean, a show starring Echo?!? Who asked for that? Who is excited for that? They have no clue what they are doing at this point, but hey, it was a great run. Truly. Nothing lasts forever.

Well, Marvel just slapped their brand on a very well known character, Ant-Man, and the money isn't exactly flowing in, is it? You mention Echo as if that's the only thing Marvel Studios has on the schedule. Did you forget about Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel, Captain America, Blade, Deadpool, Loki, Secret Invasion, Daredevil, and The Avengers?

On 3/26/2023 at 1:34 PM, drotto said:

The decline is obvious.  Box office is down across the MCU slate (except for the Sony Spider-Man movie). QM bombed, and this was the critical movie launch of the new big bad.  Actual ticket sales are down 40% to 50% when you take inflation into account. No streaming shows appeared in the Neilson streaming top 10.  The D+ plus shows are completely irrelevant to causal fans as proven by the viewership. Alonso was fired.  The media is starting to point out all the problems. Disney is cutting $3 billion form content creation, much of which is coming from the MCU.  They are slowing down and delaying basically all the releases. That means more rewrites, and reshoots.  Iron Heart and Echo, while already shot, are on hold. Rumors circulating that Agatha is at minimum being rewritten and may in fact be dropped. Netflix Daredevil fans were already upset with his MCU introduction, and with the changes in the cast, have again said they are worried. Toy sales are in the tank. The over reliance on TV writers and inexperienced directors, with little to know track record, and when they do fail like the writer of QM, they get another major project? Furious VFX companies, that do not want to work for the MCU.

 

The press coming out about the Marvels is not positive. More delays and confirmed more reshoots.  What healthy movie that a studio is confidence in has a release date moved 5 times? Rumors that one of the stars is unhappy and may be done with the MCU (Brie's recent statement about not having a job).  Plus, there is much more potential competition where it was moved to. The potential leaked --script (yes pure rumor, but perhaps some truth with Disney coming out hard against leaks in the last few weeks) where it is basically a body swap movie. Which is supported by the final scenes of the Ms Marvel show. Not a very super hero plot at all.  Yes, we want variety in the MCU,  but that sounds like a Disney made for TV tween movie plot. The already known casual fan frustration with MoM that if you did not see WandaVision it did not make sense. The Capitan Marvel comic book was just canceled for low sales, and the new comic industry has also collapsed, when best selling books now would have been cancelled for low sales 10 to 15 years ago.  But again, floppies are completely irrelevant when you are printing 20,000 copies per month if you are lucky.  X-Men number 1 in the 90's sold over 1 million copies!!! I hope he movie is great, but the warning signs are flashing hard on this one. Pushing it back to make it the best is a great thing to say, but you may be trying to polish a turd. 

 

I love the MCU, I just can see the warning signs everywhere of a franchise in trouble. Yes, Superhero fatigue is also real.

You threw a lot of conjecture, opinion, and not quite accurate information along with what's already known into your response. For right now, I'll just respond to your Captain Marvel bits.

The only real official press that's come out about the The Marvels is its move to November to allow more time for VFX. There are zero official statements or records or industry schedules for reshoots for the film. That type of stuff isn't secret. The only places saying there are reshoots happening are troll sites like Cosmic Book News that, big surprise, are just reporting what that guy John Scheider said about The Marvels being a " show" that has been contrasted by way more reliable scooper KC Walsh who has said that The Marvels has been going smooth and inside test screenings have been positive. That isn't press by the way, that's industry scoops. Moving the dates of movies is a regular thing, and Marvel Studios has been doing it quite a bit since the pandemic. Yes, summer to fall is a big move, but it jives with Disney's recent "quality over quantity" statement. The Captain Marvel comic book series has not been cancelled. I should know as I pick up the new copy as they come out from my LCS. Finally, there is no leaked -script to The Marvels confirming a Freaky Friday-like body swap story.  This was simply online fan theories which the head writer of Ms. Marvel dubunked, saying it is what it looks like, Kamala Khan and Carol Danvers switched places physically.