@therealsilvermane

On 3/23/2023 at 11:57 AM, drotto said:

I retrospect, it came across as disrespectful to the previous material as opposed to growth of the character. It is also emblematic of thr problem of Marvel going for the cheap laugh as opposed to meaningful moments or actual character developement.

So you think character progression of Bruce Banner/Hulk would be the Hulk getting dumber and more savage, as opposed to Banner actually finding a cure for the monster within?

On 3/22/2023 at 10:17 PM, PopKulture said:

But Cecil Rhodes is deceased. Why isn't Wakanda striving to be more ethnically diverse like the rest of us enlightened nations? Why can't subsequent Black Panthers be - while by definition remaining tragically nationalistic - more diverse, such as a Wakandan of European, South American or Asian descent? 

As a nation, I think it's time Wakanda needs to stop being so ethnocentric and xenophobic. I find it dishearteningly regressive. 

Sarcasm noted.

I guess you never saw Wakanda Forever. The entire starting point of the movie’s plot is how the “enlightened nations” are trying to get their greedy hands on Vibranium for obviously nefarious purposes, and it appears to be the Countess DeFontaine’s sole purpose in life and all she dreams about. The spirit of Cecil Rhodes is alive and well in the MCU.

America’s strength does lie in its diversity. Wakanda’s strength, on the other hand, lies with the Black Panther and the nation’s semi-exclusive hold on vibranium. In the fictional world of the MCU, and past the colonization excuse, Wakanda continues to remain isolated for good reason.

If V. DeFontaine is in charge, I wouldn’t be surprised if vibranium is the driving plot point of the Thunderbolts movie. Maybe it’s discovered somewhere else besides Wakanda and Talokan, such as the Savage Land where Antarctic Vibranium is located according to the comics.

On 3/22/2023 at 9:05 PM, Artboy99 said:

take the concept further:

any character could be portrayed by any actor, black white or brown. Skin color isn’t important because it’s not important to any character's story since it is a made up universe. If Disney can change the history of Namor changing the culture it was originally based on to the Aztecs and change the name of the kingdom from Atlantis to Talokan, they can change Wakanda or anything else for that matter.

Interesting discussion.

Well let’s take a few steps back in discussing Atlantis and Talocan.

Stan Lee’s 1962 Marvel Comics revolution was creating a superhero world based in reality, where the heroes had real lives and real world problems. Part of that was making the heroes live in the real city of New York. While Doom’s Latveria and T’Challa’s Wakanda were fictional, they were still based on the real Earth areas of Eastern Europe and Africa.

The “real” Atlantis is just Greek mythology’s version of Sodom and Gomorrah, a city sunk by the gods for its immorality. That’s it. It’s not a place of mermaids neither is it Neptune’s kingdom. In the past 150 years, there have been dozens and dozens of different versions of the lost city of Atlantis in popular fiction. There are no rules to Atlantis and authors can do whatever they want with it. It’s the height of fantasy.

What made Namor and his underwater kingdom unique in Marvel is it was a place threatened by the doings of the surface world and he was a super-powered mutant king ready to defend it. Atlantis was just a name. Ryan Coogler stuck to that character essence in Wakanda Forever. Switching Namor’s kingdom to the Aztec mythology place Talocan changed absolutely nothing in that regard. At the same time, it made Namor more complex by tying his origins to the real history of Spanish colonialism. It made Namor more relatable to Wakanda. It freed the character from the pulp fiction cliche of Atlantis. And yes, it increased Marvel Studios’ global market reach by putting part of the MCU in Mexico.

On 3/22/2023 at 7:31 PM, Artboy99 said:

All good comments and i like Zendaya.  

So it sounds like you would support the casting of Orlando Bloom as T'Challa as he demonstrated excellent chemistry with the lead actress and is a talented actor and is handsome.

Skin color exists, it’s part of our real world,  and it can be important to a story, especially if history or current events are involved. You can’t cast Orlando Bloom in the lead in a movie about Rodney King because King’s skin color and ethnicity are important to his story. The same with T’Challa, his African heritage as leader of a country cut off from European colonialism is important to the story, so T’Challa has to be black. Therefore you can’t cast Orlando Bloom as T’Challa. MJ on the other hand has no specific ethnic background which makes her special. The only thing that makes her character special is her beauty, personality, and courage. MJ could be portrayed by any actor, black white or brown. Her skin color isn’t important because it’s not important to MJ’s story.

On 3/22/2023 at 2:28 PM, drotto said:

In additon, it seems like D+ is where Disney is hiding loses in general. When they "sell" their films to D+, that transfers the loss from that film division to the streaming division.  It allows them to hide a lot of stuff.

Disney was the #1 movie company in the world in 2022 at 4.9 billion, with Avatar its biggest film at 2.3 billion. Universal was a distant 2nd at 3.9 billion with Jurassic World Dominion its biggest film at 1 billion. Paramount was a more distant 3rd at 2 billion with Top Gun Maverick its biggest film at 1.5 billion.

Disney has been the #1 movie company in the world for seven consecutive years.

On 3/22/2023 at 2:25 PM, Artboy99 said:

yes he is, but we certainly don't need to see him as he is depicted and truthfully as a Hulk fan I still have yet to see the Hulk I want to see which is the version who overcomes his opponents with his increase in strength.

I don't want to see him dressed in a sweater, serving up tacos, arm in a sling, posing for photos in a mall, etc. He is physically one of the most powerful Marvel characters let's see it!

Dude, we saw the version you speak of in Ang Lee’s Hulk movie, Incredible Hulk, The Avengers, Avengers Age of Ultron, Thor Ragnarok, and for a few minutes in Avengers Infinity War. And you saw him actually fight and throw things as Smart Hulk in the She-Hulk show. 

You saw him pose for photos and serve tacos and have an arm in a sling in one movie and one movie only, Endgame.

On 3/22/2023 at 10:39 AM, Artboy99 said:

I would love the see all of those stories but with a caveat: they must stay true to the characters. I definitely do not want to see SS4 with comedian Thor, or Hulk vs Wolverine with the sweater wearing soft professor Hulk, or the WW2 epic with K'uk'ulkan/nahMOUR which is quite honestly the problem of the current Marvel they are reinventing rather than sticking to character.

Smart Hulk is 100% true to the character’s comic book story.

On 3/22/2023 at 9:18 AM, Bosco685 said:

No. The She-Marvel. It's a hot trend.

Ha ha funny,  except FOTG confirms the name is Shazam. It’s a losing battle for DC to try to hold on to the Marvel name by any degree. Marvel Comics owns it. It’s confusing to fans, especially newer ones, to try to switch back and forth. If the branding is Shazam, if it says Shazam on the comic cover or movie poster, it’s a better business and creative decision to wholly embrace that name for the character. Polling says comic book culture audiences like their content simple. 

On 3/22/2023 at 8:20 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I really like Captain Marvel, but you're not wrong.

The hero is officially Shazam. Which begs the question, will Mary Marvel have to change her name to SHE-Zam?

On 3/21/2023 at 10:00 PM, Microchip said:

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/victoria-alonso-marvel-studios-exit-1235559674/

Despite her sudden exit on Friday, Alonso is credited as a producer on the upcoming Marvel films “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3” and “The Marvels,” plus the Disney+ shows “Secret Invasion,” “Ironheart,” “Echo” and “Agatha: Coven of Chaos.”

So we have 5+ films to wade through before we can begin to see light at the end of the tunnel 

 

 

Victoria Alonso is also a credited producer on Avengers Endgame, Infinity War, Black Panther, Thor Ragnarok, Captain America Winter Soldier, Iron Man, and every other Marvel Studios project.

Spoiler Alert!!

Saw a matinee showing of Fury of the Goddesses. Ive been so desperate to hear “Captain Marvel” uttered in a movie theater I decided to go see the off brand version today. Interesting who says it, but munch your popcorn too loud and you’ll miss it. If anyone is curious, our main hero’s official name is confirmed to be Shazam.

 I’ll say in this movie, the Billy Batson Shazam finally gets to shine, since he couldn’t really in the first movie because his surprise Shazam Family steals his thunder. In this movie they can’t, so Billy gets to show us what he can do.

FOTG is definitely a sequel to the first, similar in tone and theme, which was a slight problem for me as the sequel again was this weird awkward mix of cute family dynamics and extreme horror. Even though the movie is about a family with young kids, I’m not sure this movie is for families with young kids. 

The story was run of the mill, spotlighting Freddy Freeman over any of the other kids. I think the movie could’ve taken a lesson from a good kids ensemble movie like Goonies and given our hero kids something to fight for collectively as a family, like the house or something. As it is, the movie’s main stories are Freddy’s awkward high school romance and the superhero mission, both which were a little uninteresting to me. The movie does pick up in the end when Billy’s Shazam takes over, which is who we paid to see, so whatever. It was a little hard for me to get invested with the rest of the Shazam Family because even as heroes they acted so juvenile, Mary excepted.

There are definite laughs in the movie, like Helen Mirren’s letter reading. The Shazam Family goofiness gets a little redundant, though. I mean, these actors aren’t Chris Hemsworth, Tessa Thompson, Mark Ruffalo, and Taika Waititi. Just get with the story.

I can’t think of any plot holes that bothered me, though there were a few story elements that come out of nowhere and are unexplained, like a collapsing Philadelphia bridge or Pedro’s magical utensil. 

In the end, I thought the movie was okay in a “it is what it is” kind of way. Sometimes I did have a thought that Jack Dylan Grazer might’ve made a better Billy Batson than Asher Angel, as Grazer just looks and acts more like an underdog.

On 3/20/2023 at 4:49 PM, jdandns said:

Oof, youtube videos over this? Professional complainers will never not crack me up. 

All of these MCU projects cost the same to view as what you'd pay for a couple of monthly comic books, most of which are terrible. 

I couldn't imagine spending longer than the 60 seconds I took to write this post on any of this stuff. 

All you need do is look at the views numbers of these YouTube videos to understand why they do it. Views means money for the YouTuber, and riling up the mob is one sure way to get those views.

On 3/20/2023 at 3:33 PM, drotto said:

I do not necessarily think Feige must go (but I am close), but I think Iger should insist someone needs to be brought in to "help" him.

 

I have never been able to figure out why Feige decided to emulate the Marvel Now circa 2015 as his template for the MCU going forward.  You have decades of great material, and he decided to mine an era that is pretty much acknowledged as a failure in the comics. Those stories and most of the characters had already been rejected by fans, but hey we can make this work on film? Just dumb.

The Jason Aaron run on Thor is one of the best eras of Thor ever, up there with Lee-Kirby and Walt Simonson’s. As far as Love and Thunder goes, any perceived weaknesses of the movie were not the fault of Thor’s circa 2015 comics stories. Maybe movie Gorr should’ve been handled differently.

On 3/20/2023 at 2:55 PM, Bosco685 said:

 

Nice to post it in this thread as if this is another battle in an imagined war of the superhero sexes. If folks think this means the MCU goes back to being a sausage party, well Kevin Feige is probably as much of a champion of women superheroes as Alonso is. 

Maybe it just has more to do with Disney and Marvel’s own statements about quality over quantity and the public issue that VFX studios have had with Marvel Studios lately. And it so happens that Victoria Alonso is the head of Marvel’s VFX. Yeah it’s a shock but it’s not really a shock. Here’s a story clipping about the VFX studios issue with Alonso that may or may not be legit:

On 3/19/2023 at 1:35 AM, drotto said:

It's also unfortunate as a society we have lost sight that the goal is to elevate everyone.  We can achieve greater equaily, fairness and correct historic wrongs, without the need to destroy others in the process. It is not a zero sum game, where there must be winners and losers.  I hope that is the case, anyways. 

And unfortunately, a zero sum game is exactly how many who cry “M-SHE-U” see it, when it really isn’t. This all or nothing, us or them mentality has reared its ugly head through history, when those who are part of a status quo feel threatened by change.

Yes, Marvel Studios has said their plan was to make the MCU 50/50 guy/girl superheroes, and in elevating women heroes in Phase Four, that’s been obvious.  But has it been at the cost of tearing down its men heroes? I don’t think it has.

I don’t see this Phase Four man emasculation thing y’all are talking about. Neither Bucky nor Sam Wilson were torn down in FWS. Sam Wilson became Captain America for chrissakes. Clint Barton isn’t torn down in the Hawkeye show, either. In fact, Hawkeye is probably the best we’ve ever seen of Clint Barton. He was actually elevated in the show to the point that I’m a fan of the character now. I never cared two bits about Clint Barton before.

Loki has been a humorous villain/anti-hero ever since Hulk took him out by beating him like a rag doll in The Avengers. At least in Loki he gets a girlfriend and finally gets to express romantic love. How is that emasculation? Is getting a girlfriend or wife your idea of emasculation?

In She -Hulk, Bruce is just continuing the Smart Hulk character we were introduced to in Endgame. Except this time, we get to see him actually do some fighting. And we learn he got busy on Sakaar and had a son! How is that emasculation? And before you say he was relegated to a supporting character, I’ll remind you that this was She-Hulk’s show.

And the Thor of Love and Thunder is a progression of the character who went through devastating loss after loss from Dark World through Infinity War and who shut down physically and mentally in Endgame. Taika described it as Thor going through a mid-life crisis. Chris Hemsworth described it as Thor a bit out of his mind since Endgame. But the character was still a bada*s in L&T. He takes out an army of bird aliens. He takes down warriors of Olympus and Zeus himself. He takes down Gorr with Jane Foster’s help. Thor even powers up to Odin levels when he endows the Asgardian children with the power of Thor. And he also becomes more Odin-like when he adopts Gorr’s daughter, just as Odin adopted Loki. At the same time, we were actually shown the relationship of Thor and Jane rather than hearing about it. In L&T, we got to see a more complex superhero as we witnessed Thor in mid-life crisis transition from someone who acted like a college kid into an actual adult. Maybe that’s the problem. Maybe y’all would rather see Thor act like a college kid. Maybe James Cameron has something to say about that matter. 

Yes, Marvel did elevate its women heroes in Phase Four, but that doesn’t mean they tore down their men heroes, too. It is not a zero sum game as many are trying to label it as.

On 3/14/2023 at 5:42 PM, Artboy99 said:

while I don't agree with the order he puts the releases in, I generally agree with his take on all of this. Enjoy!

 

3. Picking on She-Hulk is kind of low hanging fruit given that She-Hulk with its 4th wall breaking format picked on trolling YouTube sites just like nerdrotic. Talk about life imitating art imitating life. Of course, this video itself is low hanging fruit.

Anyway, yet again this video nitpicks things that really don’t have much to do with diversity equity and inclusion besides its troll bashing. And some nitpicks are just plain wrong.  Jennifer Walters is not perfect by any means. In fact she’s a lonely work obsessed nerd. As She-Hulk, she may look perfect, but she’s far from the perfect superhero even though she thinks she has nothing to learn. She doesn’t even want to be a superhero, suffering from the great power great responsibility issue that other would-be heroes deal with. Clearly she has things to learn and Matt Murdock even kind of shows her the way, how to balance her career and being a superhero 

And can She-Hulk be considered a failure? It got strong viewership ratings and good reviews. Yes it pissed off some fans, but mission accomplished. Granted, in the future, I think the MCU should no longer pick on certain parts of the fan base like that.

On 3/14/2023 at 5:42 PM, Artboy99 said:

while I don't agree with the order he puts the releases in, I generally agree with his take on all of this. Enjoy!

 

4. Loki is one of the highest critically rated MCU Disney+ shows and it’s most watched. The show had lots of winning moments: Loki and Moebius’s relationship, the intro of the TVA, the Loki-Sylvie romance, Loki’s variants like Classic Loki and Alligator Loki, the introduction of Kang’s variants, to name some highlights. By most accounts, Loki was a huge success. Yet this nerdrotic YouTube video is trying to tell us it’s a “M-SHE-U” failure? What?

On 3/14/2023 at 5:42 PM, Artboy99 said:

while I don't agree with the order he puts the releases in, I generally agree with his take on all of this. Enjoy!

 

5. I didn’t like Black Widow, but it wasn’t bad because of its womanness, as this video tries to say. Its plot holes and poor story development undermined the movie’s tension, to me. Really the movie was doomed for me from the start. Why would Russia, who is trying to groom and brainwash two little girls for its Black Widow program, allow those two little girls to live for years in the warm comfort and freedom of an “American” family? Even though young Natasha knows it’s fake, Yelena later says that for her it was real. Makes no sense. And the spy family is running from SHIELD who would have saved the two little girls, undermining real story tension there.

Why would Russia put a maximum security prison in an area prone to avalanches? The movie wants us to believe that Natasha is terrified of Taskmaster towards the end of the movie, but gives us no real reason to believe that she would be scared of Taskmaster from prior interactions in the movie. Why is Red Guardian such a lummox in the movie when he seemed so intelligent in the America flashback? Why undermine Melina’s likability by having her choke out her pet pig? Am I supposed to really believe that Fury or Natasha wouldn’t have heard about women assassins running around Europe dressed like Black Widows or of a crazy floating city in the sky? I didn’t believe that for a second.

These story development issues have nothing to do with diversity equity or inclusion but the nerdrotic YouTubers still cry “M-SHE-U!”

On 3/18/2023 at 10:55 AM, drotto said:

So just a variation on the, you were always perfect you just needed to believe in yourself plot. No actual hero's journey arc.

Although Maria tells Carol she was strong and a best friend before her accident, nobody says Carol is perfect. If you’d actually watch the movie and not automatically see the character as a Mary Sue, you’d see that. Also, even though Stark, Stephen Strange, and Thor were a**holes, not every hero has to start off as such. Carol just needs to remember that she’s human, not a Kree weapon.

Carol absolutely goes on a hero’s journey in the classic sense. She starts in her normal Kree world with her Kree outlook on life and a Kree mentor.. She crosses the threshold of a strange new world when she is kidnapped by the Skrulls and crashes on Earth. She meets  a guide through this new world with Nick Fury. As this is also a voyage of her memory, she picks up pieces of her past through her journey and also picks up a new mentor in Talos. Armed with her newfound knowledge of her past and that her Kree outlook was wrong, she returns to the cave or world she left behind to face the big Kree villain and reclaim her humanity and memories, visually represented by her powering up, which is also the ultimate goal of every MCU film, powering up. With a new mastery of her powers, the hero rejects the new world to further confront her former masters with her new powers. Captain Marvel absolutely follows a classic hero’s journey. 

On 3/17/2023 at 12:23 PM, drotto said:

My favorite part was that Captian Marvel showed basically no emotions through the entire film, yet they continuously stressed that her not controlling her emotions was what was holding her back.   

Ummmmm, Ok?

The Supreme Intelligence and Yonn-Rogg were actively working to keep Carol brainwashed through the movie to keep her under their control. 

Vers actually did display emotions through the movie. She expressed humor, anger, sadness etc. The movie itself wasn’t a highly dramatic movie by design, as it was sandwiched between the two biggest dramatic stories of the MCU. 

On 3/17/2023 at 12:05 PM, thegiftedone45 said:

Are you kidding me that was the best part of Captain Marvel.  Just showing her standing up every time was historic character storytelling.  It's why the next movie will break records....

Look y’all, if you have any questions about the meanings in Capitan Marvel, just ask me. My DM is open.

A big story element of Captain Marvel is memory. That’s appropriate because memory (or loss of) defined a lot of the comic book Carol Danvers complicated story. 

The story of the Captain Marvel movie on the surface is an alien warrior woman Vers searching for Skrulls on Earth. But beneath that, the warrior woman is inadvertently searching for her past and her memories, which she lost six years ago. The two searches are connected. So during the warrior woman’s big confrontation with the Supreme Intelligence towards the end of the movie, Vers’ memories come rushing back, helped by meeting the people of her past earlier, like Maria and Monica. So when we see the different versions of the warrior woman standing up during her showdown with the SI, that represents Vers reclaiming her memories and who she really is, culminating in her line “My name is Carol.”

Get it?

On 3/16/2023 at 12:47 PM, crassus said:

Exactly, story comes first, everything else should come second, and that does mean that sometimes fan expectations may have to be challenged, but there is a sort of structural integrity to what makes a good story and compelling characters, and that is often not respected. Riri and Cassie are similar examples of the same problem, too much too fast, creating cut out characters to which the audience has no time and no plausible reason to connect.

I did not like Quantumania, so I had even less to invest in Cassie, but I did overall like Wakanda, and Riri was too much too fast, in the end I couldn't make a connection with the character. And imo that was a problem that was easily fixable, they just had to dial her down and slow it up a bit. She could have  been presented more modestly as a brilliant and promising student, ignored and overlooked by academia, who happened to stumble upon something big (vibranium detector? I think?) who  suddenly gets swept into a world of intrigue. She didn't have to be a universal genius with an Iron Man suit ready to be a superhero at a moment's notice etc...way way too much and it punched a big hole in the movie...in too much of a hurry....this hurts the character, if you are looking to introduce us to a strong female lead for the future, great, but take the time to make her a real person. 

....this defines a lot of what I haven't  liked about the recent movies...one of the reasons I'm not  a fan of "multi-verse" "time-travelling" etc it just becomes a convenient excuse for throwing greater numbers of new and old  heroes  at the screen at ever greater velocities....they need to slow the whole thing down...

Riri Williams and Cassie Lang were still just supporting characters of a larger ensemble. Although Cassie had a small hero arc (learning how to be a better fighter), they didn’t really need strong character arcs. They were there to help serve the main character’s mission. Wakanda Forever was still Shuri and Namor’s movie, and Quantumania was Scott Lang and Kang’s movie. If you want a strong character arc for Riri, I suppose she’ll get one in the Ironheart series, coming soon to Disney+.

On 3/14/2023 at 11:27 AM, Gatsby77 said:

A "B" CinemaScore indicates that the audience hated it - best spin that could be put on such a score is mediocrity.

Puts it in the same category as:

• Elektra
• Green Lantern
• Justice League
• Catwoman
• Eternals 

According to Cinemascore, Quantumania did better than Cocaine Bear (B-) and the same as M3GAN (B), both generally considered fun movies and minor hits. QM's Cinemascore was almost as good as Black Adam's B+, which I believe a lot of forum members here said was also fun.

I just did an unofficial head count of CGC forum reaction posts over in the Quantumania thread. These included people the poster said saw the movie with them and their reactions, and my math might be off by 1 or 2. 11 people did not like it. 4 people were "meh" about it. 29 people liked it or at least had a good time with it. That's a majority of people here (with family and friends) who viewed the movie as fun.

That's pretty much been what I've seen on social media, Facebook groups, etc. The RT audience score is at 83%. The IMDB user rating is at 6.5/10. More of the audience who saw the movie liked it rather than disliked it.

On 3/14/2023 at 5:40 AM, Larryw7 said:

They're changing the title to THE MARBLES. You lose them as the film slowly unspools.

Well that was Marvel’s lampoon name for itself 50 years ago in Not Brand Echh! Ya should finish the job and call Carol Danvers “Clairol Dandruff.”

On 3/14/2023 at 6:12 AM, Bosco685 said:

KC Walsh merely confirmed that his Quantumania plot scoop was accurate (because he’s a reliable scooper), and only said the movie SOUNDS fun. Sounds like Regular Cinema Guy doesn’t get syntax.

But ya know Quantumania was fun. Just because a bunch of critics didn’t like it and didn’t bring in the usual big movie crowd doesn’t mean a movie wasn’t fun. The movie still had generally positive audience reactions. Heck, do a head count over in the Quantumania thread and I bet the amount of posters who enjoyed the movie will be a strong majority. According to KC Walsh, the movie sounded fun, and it was fun.