@therealsilvermane

Movie theaters across America: "Save us, Black Widow! You're our only hope!"

Kevin Feige to Variety recently regarding Sersi of The Eternals: "There were some characters that we change from male to female, there were some characters that we knew how we were altering them from the books," Feige told Variety. "But then also it came down to casting. So for Sersi, for instance — and if there was a lead in this ensemble, it is Sersi, it is Gemma Chan — we looked at and read all sorts of women for that part. And ended up really believing that Gemma was best for it. And thankfully, she's proven that to be the case in the final movie. So, of course, Chloé was a big part of that decision, and of every casting decision." I been saying since last year that Sersi is going to be the star of The Eternals. Meanwhile speculators have been losing their minds over Black Knight or Celestials or anybody else and disregarding Sersi because a relative unknown, Gemma Chan, is in the role (and causing her key books to tank).

Well if you mean this is something I've alluded to in past posts not pertaining to this current debate, then yeah, you're right. But that's what the FWS show was about. It was a major theme. Isaiah Bradley himself says it point blank in Episode 5. But I never said anyone here is opposed for those reasons. I know if I do (which is equatable to accusing a member here of being racist) I'll get thrown in CGC Boards prison again.

It's just as well because nobody is going to convince me that the MCU is going to reboot or should reboot because a passing of the mantle of legacy heroes won't work. I think it will work. End of argument for me.

Plenty of people are opposed to Sam Wilson being Captain America. Many of these same folks wanted Bucky. When I said "whether you want a black Cap or not", I didn't mean if NewWorldOrder is opposed to it, I meant "you're" in general. I'm not trying to make it a racist thing, I'm trying to make it a "the MCU isn't going to reboot with a new Stark and Rogers" thing. Sam Wilson being Captain America, however, is very much a race thing. A lot of black MCU fans love it just as there are a lot of people out there who do not approve of it and would probably even rather see John Walker as the new Cap. But that's not what I'm arguing and I absolutely have not been continuously alluding that my "MCU won't reboot" argument is a race thing at all.

At this point in time, and coming off the Falcon and Winter Soldier series, there is more momentum for a Captain America 4 featuring Sam Wilson as the new Cap. So, Captain America 4 featuring Sam Wilson would do just as well as a Cap 4 movie featuring some past story/alternative timeline story featuring Steve Rogers which is what it would have to be. Either way, if it's a Cap America movie, there'd be enough guest stars in the film to pad the movie to make it appealing whether you're opposed to a black Captain America or not. I'd rather not give out my age but I'm old enough to have grown up reading printed page comic books and to be able to afford to be a CGC collector. How's that.?

I never said Wolverine shouldn't be recast. He's definitely going to be recast because Marvel Studios now has access to the X-Men properties. Marvel Studios is going to cast a new Wolverine for its MCU. But once they find a new Wolverine/Logan, he will probably be the permanent Wolverine. Yes, Logan in the Fox movies had a great ending. But what happened in the Fox films has no bearing at all in the MCU. Marvel Studios will tell their version of the character now and it will be their official MCU version. We keep debating over the same thing. I don't get why you can't understand what I'm saying and why I'm saying Marvel Studios will not recast the MCU Tony Stark. Again, Marvel Studios wants to tell a continuous unending story that generations can grow with and that has its genesis in the first Iron Man movie. Tony Stark died in Endgame. To recast Tony Stark and bring him back will A) destroy the illusion of the MCU as a single universe, and B) end the continuous story of the MCU begun in Iron Man 1. In a perfect world, Marvel Studios does not want to reboot the MCU and start over. They want fans to love the future MCU as much as fans love the past MCU. If Marvel reboots, it's because they failed at it. I do not think they will fail. Many here think that unless they reboot Tony Stark and Steve Rogers that the MCU will fail with losers like The Eternals and Adam Warlock and Captain Marvel.

ComicsGate and other anti-diversity groups successfully trolled Marvel Comics, which was led by Marvel's Social Justice Commander-in-Chief himself Ike Permutter (sarcasm) who was against any diversity anyway, into ditching its move towards diversifying its characters. The same trolls tried to sink Captain Marvel's movie with several YouTube hate videos and review bombing her movie at Rotten Tomatoes and they failed. Kevin Feige will not be bullied into giving up on Sam Wilson's Captain America or Kate Bishop's Hawkeye. They are here to stay for at least another 10 years of the MCU.

"When Mr Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventyifirst birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton. And then the dragons arrived." Now this is the movie I'd like to see...

Tony Stark would have continued to be the boring billionaire behind Iron Man that he's been in the comics for decades unless Marvel Studios and Robert Downey Jr had made him a fun, charming, hilarious jerk on the silver screen. Tony Stark is only a household name because Marvel Studios made him as such. You talk as if he's been a household pop cultural iconic household name for decades. Who the heck had heard of Groot before James Gunn made him one of the most lovable characters in pop culture today? Yes, Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios have the magic touch. But even they know better than to tempt fate and try to replicate a Tony Stark that Robert Downey Jr perfected and can't be matched. Again, Iron Man is only a billion dollar IP because Marvel Studios and Robert Downey Jr made him that way. Ryan Gosling Jr or whoever you think should be recast in the role will only screw it up.

It’s also as simple as just creating new interesting characters (like a descendant) or having established characters step in to carry on the mantle!

It doesn't look very sunny in Scotland at all.

This outfit is right out of the comics. Could a Wolverine in yellow spandex and "two Batman kissing each other" mask be coming, too?

Well if Tobey Maguire and Garfield do show up in FFH, I see it mainly as a brilliant business move to make the Raimi Trilogy and Amazing SpiderMan 1 & 2 films relevant again. It could also solve the Miles Morales problem. A lot of things will be possible by bringing the Spiderverse into the MCU. Tony Stark doesn't need solving. Neither does Steve Rogers. Their MCU stories were perfect and don't need fixing. Leave them as is and let other worthy souls with their own interesting stories continue their legacy. Maybe a Tony Stark AI if RDJ wants back in but that's it.

And I say the only way RDJ's Tony Stark comes back is as an AI. We already saw a hint of it at the end of Endgame. It'd be kind of fitting that the Stark's AI JARVIS came to life as Vision and Stark dies and becomes an AI like JARV. But no way Tony Stark comes back as a flesh and blood character (like he did in the comics over and over again) unless the current MCU is rebooted which is a doomsday scenario for Marvel Studios IMO.

I wonder what you thought of the Guardians of the Galaxy before their movie debuted and ended up being a turning point for the MCU. I honestly don't think the X-Men and FF are surefire automatic hits. FF has been a consistent loser in live action and then how does Marvel make its mutants different and unique from the Fox films. I think Marvel Studios has its work cut out for them but I have faith in Keven Feige. I also don't think X-Men (or mutants or something X) proper will arrive for a very long time so maybe that will add a few years to your 10 year MCU doomsday prophecy.

Well, obviously you're a Captain Marvel hater but I won't hold that against you. The MCU doesn't really need the next event Avengers movie to be as big as Endgame. And I don't think that's a barometer for success or failure either, where if the next big Avengers movie doesn't make 2+ billion that Marvel is going to wrap up its tents and call it quits. Every Marvel movie going forward just needs decent numbers and Disney+ shows just need strong streaming numbers to keep this thing going. Your estimate of 10 years to the MCU's own Ragnarok is quite negative. You really do have zero faith in any other MCU character outside of Tony Stark and Steve Rogers.

I'll say it again: I'm talking about WITHIN THE CURRENT MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE. You understand the current MCU is one big story and one fictional universe, right? Kinda like Harry Potter. And Yes, I know Marvel Studios recast Bruce Banner and James Rhodes way back but those were hiccups early on in the MCU's formative years. Now, If Disney does indeed redo and reboot all the Marvel movies in 20 years because they feel they lack the creative juice to keep this thing going, then yes indeed, recast away to your heart's content. But right now, I'm talking about the current Marvel Cinematic Universe in the real world that started with the first Iron Man movie. In this Universe, Robert Downey Jr IS Tony Stark, and Tony Stark died at the end of Endgame. That's the story and it's permanent.

In the MCU, the actor and the character are practically one and the same. Robert Downey Jr IS Tony Stark. Stark has RDJ's mannerisms, comic timing, speech patterns, everything (I think I already said this). Chris Evans IS Steve Rogers. Any attempt to try and recast them and tell their stories over again and attempt to recapture lightning in a bottle all over again will most likely end in failure and Disney knows that. Not only will it probably end in failure, it will completely destroy the continuing MCU story that Marvel has built and wants to keep building. The Batman comparisons with Michael Keaton and Christian Bale simply don't line up. Warner Bros wasn't creating a Cinematic Universe with those movies. A couple of sequels? Yes. A trilogy? Yes. But not an unending living breathing universe where characters live, grow old, have kids, die, and where fans can equally grow up with these characters like some unending fan favorite TV show. Back to Marvel, as I said, Robert Downey Jr IS Tony Stark. Gwyneth Paltrow IS Virginia "Pepper" Potts. It needs to stay that way for the illusion of the MCU to work. So you create new characters who are written as interesting as you can make them and cast them with actors, like Robert Downey Jr or Paltrow, who can embue with charm, humor, drama, etc. to tell the best story you can, just like Jon Favreau RDJ and Gwyneth Paltrow did in that first Iron Man movie. You hope Dominique Thorne will help make Ironheart as charming and fun and adventurous a movie that doesn't replace Iron Man, but honors it and hopefully does its own thing to add to the enduring story of the MCU. You hope that again with the next person who wears Iron Man tech in future movies, whether it's Tony Stark's grandson or whoever. That's how RDJ's Tony Stark stays alive, it's how Disney can keep making money off the Iron Man image, and it's how you can keep the MCU's story going without rebooting the whole thing because you don't think any other character outside of those original MCU Avengers is worthy (which is bs).

Well, you misunderstand me. I know full well the importance of the person behind the suit in both Marvel Comics and the MCU. I understand that the real magic that Stan Lee created was making the life of the "real" person behind the super-hero important and that Kevin Feige and co. are continuing that kind of character storytelling in the MCU. However, as this debate veered into money and business and continuing the Iron Man or Captain America brand to sell merchandise and other money making endeavors for Disney, that's mainly what I was talking about in the my post when I said the person behind the suit is expendable. Iron Man's image sells backpacks and Halloween costumes, not Tony Stark's image. However, in a way, you also help make my point in your above reply post. Yes, the person of Tony Stark or T'Challa is so important to the appeal of these MCU movies (and a big part of that is the actor, more on that later). As far as the story goes, yes, they are irreplaceable. That's why when Marvel and RDJ and Chris Evans feel they told the perfect stories for MCU Tony Stark and Steve Rogers over 15 films and 10 years and gave them perfect endings, YOU DON"T REPLACE THEM. The only reason a recasting of T'Challa was even considered is because Marvel Studios was not finished telling his story in the MCU the way they did with Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. The best way for Tony Stark and Steve Rogers to live on in the MCU is not to recast them (which again would mean a reboot of the entire MCU story. Sorry @drotto, a recast means a reboot of the story) but to honor their legacy and have them be an inspiration to the many characters that will come after them. To treat MCU Stark and Rogers like the center points of a ripple that expands out and affects the future storylines to come whether it's Stark tech or Rogers' enduring patriotic legacy.

Obviously it's the same company and the same characters. Feige's whole thing is taking their story beats from the comics. My point is the difference between printed pages and live action. They are definitely separate in that regard and also in the stories they can tell and how to tell it. That should be obvious.

Because the MCU and the Marvel Comics are two completely different things. The MCU just takes inspiration from the comics. Tony Stark is going to stay dead in the MCU and fans of the future will be just fine with it. The image of middle school MCU fans of the future standing outside Marvel Studios' gates and holding up protest banners chanting "We want OUR Tony Stark! When do want him? Now!" is making me laugh in my head.

Marvel Studios told Tony Stark's and Steve Rogers' MCU stories in 15 or so films collectively and over a 10 year span. They finished their stories within the larger story of the MCU. If future audiences want the Tony Stark or Steve Rogers MCU experience, they can enjoy their adventures for the first time on Disney+, now the official living space of the MCU.

For the business end of it, yes. That's right. That Black Panther costume is what sells merchandise and gets people excited. Where I guess I'm differing with people is many here think you can't have that costume character without T'Challa. I say you can totally have a movie that features a Wakandan queen or king in a black cat vibranium suit and sell merchandise that features that character and it doesn't have to be T'Challa. The action and the intrigue and the human drama of the Black Panther can still be there, but it can be a new member of the Royal family wearing the suit. You're saying in the long run, you can't have Iron Man or Black Panther without Tony Stark or T'Challa so Marvel must eventually recast Stark and T'Challa. I'm saying the costumed character Iron Man or Black Panther is not expendable, but the character wearing the Iron Man or Black Panther suit is expendable. It seems to me Marvel Studios is doing the latter because the MCU seems to be moving on from both Tony Stark and T'Challa. I know there's a petition to recast T'Challa, but Kevin Feige has stated that they will not recast him.