Rick2you2

I used to have an A level Spirit page, including one of his famous title blocks. Gone with a basment flood. Ex-wife at fault. I repeat, ex-wife at fault.

A good portion of OA art pricing is nostalgia-based, not influence based. If it were influence- based, Eisner’s Spirit pages would be through the roof. Also, don’t forget this is a relatively small hobby, which is one reason that shilling is so bad: inflated prices on a small number of pieces can have an oversized effect. Good luck, for example, trying to move the market for muscle cars (typical versions).

As others have said, your experience is probably typical. Sorry.

Let me recommend Robert Dennis, a professional restorer, to ask. My guess is yes it can be done.

I'm not sure Albert's advice would hold up so well anymore. Think of the prices of artists who have gotten hot over the past 25 years. Byrne, Sinkiewicz, Jim Lee, etc., percentage-dollar wise, he would have made a killing.

He would prefer not to be remembered for any of his Star Wars work.

Seeing this raised a particular artist in my mind: Neal Adams. Excellent artist, huge production levels, high prices, but seemingly a result of natural demand (which he does partly control by keeping some things). He still churns out so many sketches, however. Is that affecting his OA pricing for typical Adams? (Not special pieces like the Batman/Joker cover, or GL/GA). Then, we have Aparo. Again, excellent artist, but until about a year and a half ago, not commonly sold given the huge volume of his work. My understanding is that two large collections were sold around then, and more good pieces came on the market. But are they generally holding up, price wise (I will exclude his Spectre run in Adventure which was special)? I know some of his lesser pieces don’t seem to move too quickly.

One of the things I still find amazing is how Will Eisner's Spirit pages, while not cheap, are relatively low-priced compared to modern masters. If there is a Mt. Rushmore for true Golden Age Masters and Pioneers, he would be on it. One big difference may relate to their fairly high level of availability after he died, leading me to suspect that part of the high pricing involves hoards of art being sat on in order to establish a high book value.

I forgot to mention Rudy Nebres. I have a commission he did for me in 1980 +/-, and one he did for me about 4 years ago. His newer one is actually better.

He has gotten better--freer from conventions where he can.

They would logically drop, organically,--unless there is even more of that behavior going on in order to artifically prop up prices. How many times have you been to conventions and seen the same piece, sometimes for years, carrying the same price but not moving down? Same with general CAF listings.

We are on the same page here, just using different terms. You have created a good argument that it is not "organic" but driven by perception created from shilling. That is a rigged market, instead of one driven by a lot of buyers who are chasing the same piece for their own collections, and the price goes up due to high actual demand. The junky stuff then gets carried upwards because the good stuff isn't worth spending that much money on. And yes, we should question the whole of the Jack Kirby market if there is a lot of this behavior.

Honestly, I think that the prices listed on generic Kirby pieces are “organically” high, and this sort of analysis supports my thinking. Don’t forget that he could churn out as many as 3 pages per day at Marvel, when 1 is considered good. That means there is an awful lot of material, and some of it can’t be too good.

It is certainly a nice piece, with a classic Adams feel. But, if you look at his older stuff, you will often see more detail and a finer line with greater backgrounds. This one almost has a minimalist feel—do what is necessary to create impact, but not more. Not a knock, just not as great as his old best.

Now I am wondering about the things they post for auction. Do they ever post to buy back in order to re-set the market price for it?

What is even more interesting is the ways to secretly and legally “fix” a bidding round. Makes me wonder if there are any significant analogies. What a public body can do is include specifications that no product but one can meet, and even better, if someone is an approved installer in a jurisdiction with a limited number (like 1) of them. That way, only one bidder will qualify. Likely losers then have to decide if going to court to mount a challenge is worth it because winning does not guarantee them the contract. All sorts of regulations and laws try to prevent this sort of specifying, but It can still happen in fairly subtle ways.

When I see the term “bid rigging”, it is usually the exact opposite of shilling. For example, on public works, potential competitors agree not to offer a lower price to win the award of a public works contract, thereby driving up the amount the public has to pay for the same work. It can also be used with conspiracies to defraud the public involving an auction of public land or property, so that the winner pays less than the fair market value. Groups then allow different members to win different auctions while the others stay away. Yes, it is criminal.

Sorry, I am thinking of buying them. I only have one so far. I mostly stick to Phantom Stranger art. They are not hard to find.

Colleen Doran started in the 1980’s, I think, so she deserves a mention. Same with Tom Mandrake, who I consider under appreciated.

I think his page layouts are as strong, if not stronger, than his older stuff. I don’t think his line work is as good as it used to be, but they still carry a lot of heft.

There are ways to enjoy this hobby without worrying about a future bubble—just adjust your field of vision. For example, some people happily collect commissions, art from independents, and Modern Age pieces. I also think parts of the market are not particularly appreciated by collectors. I find myself increasingly drawn to old romance comic pages with outrageously dated dialog. They just make me grin from the silliness of them (“Oh why can’t Brad see how perfect we would be together? If only I could afford a better dress, like Debbie”). Then, there are all the War comics, which with some exceptions, don’t come with high prices. Just don’t get caught up in this cycle of pricing; it isn’t worth it.

To gauge market conditions, one of the items I am watching, not buying, is Phantom Stranger cover no. 11 (Second Series). In August, 2015, it sold on Heritage for $ 8,365. At some point, I recall a sale or attempted sale of around $10,500, but I don’t recall where. Currently, the Owner has been trying to sell it for $15,000, but obviously without success. I don’t think it is a very good cover, but it is Adams in his prime. If it sells for 15,000 or above, then I would be suspicious about its price legitimacy. I am also wondering about market conditions right now for subprime Adams. My suspicion is around $11,000, but who knows?

Let me agree about the CAF newsletters. They alerted me to some things I did not spot on Comic Art Tracker, although, I don’t know why. The hard work it takes to generate them is noticed and appreciated.

Bear in mind that a bid deemed not in good faith is not the same as saying it will be automatically disqualified. CL still has the discretion to accept it, although, if later challenged, CL might be expected to explain why it exercised its discretion if it did.

You may be right about sand shifting, but if it gets too pricey, I don't buy no matter what. There are two PS covers coming up on Heritage in March, and I don't expect to bid on either one of them. There are also two Aparo covers recently listed on CAF, as well as a whole story, but no thanks at those prices. From what I have read, the majority of the market is priced below $500, and a large percent of the market is below $5,000. What with student loan debt, housing prices, and auto prices, let alone raising familes, why anyone thinks that the next generation has tens of thousands to casually spend--on our nostalgia--is beyond me. And by the way, I agree those Jusko works were awful.