RockMyAmadeus

It is surprising to me, considering the times, that there wasn't any Nazi symbolism in comics prior to late 1939. The Nazis had been running Germany since 1933, and had already gobbled up Austria, Czechoslovakia, and were in the process of expanding even further. And of course, the swastika predates Nazi use by thousands of years. I suppose an unwillingness to face reality, especially by a generation for which WWI was still fresh, may have led many to just pretend Europe's problems were Europe's problems. Still...especially in light of the obviously anti-Semitic policies of the regime, and the heavy presence of Jews in the comics publishing business of the 1930's (Eisner, Gaines, Goodman, Siegel, Shuster, and Donenfeld)...it's surprising that it took them that long to address it.

So bring back the Shellhead to we. Bring back, bring back, oh bring back the Shellhead to we...to we...

The money involved just boggles the mind. I remember when the White Mountain sold for $39k, and everyone about lost their minds.

I'm not so sure anymore. As F_T once said, he regrades his own books and gets all the same grades. Generally, me too. So I'm not sure why the inconsistency. I will concur that the SAME person can be consistent, however, we are dealing with different graders. Though, in theory, these graders are using a 'standard' set of parameters, I think the standards are still open to the interpretation of the individual graders. Not radically, but just enough to cause +1/-1 situation. Maybe CGC should lock in their graders to long term contracts for consistency, like they do in sports. And even the same grader will see things differently on a different day. I look at books all day long that could easily go either way. What may seem like a big deal on one day (a lightly CB spine tic...is it a solid 9.6, or a soft 9.8?) might not be on another day, with fresh eyes, and vice versa. The problem is that CGC and others have steadfastly refused to expand the grading system, even though the market is quite clearly demanding it, and even though CGC's sister company, NGC, has done that very thing. It's time to grade books 9.7, 9.5, etc.

Reported and blocked the buyer, wrote her a note that she should more closely monitor her daughter's internet usage. I am a little cranky when I cannot sleep. Yes, she "accidentally" hit the "Buy it Now" which took her to the confirmation page, which she also "accidentally" confirmed. If you were of a mind, and it were easy to do so, you could hold this "parent" accountable for her "daughter's" misdeeds.

It's not a Nazi cover, but it does contain the first Superman vs. Hitler (and Stalin!) story: Dated Feb 27, 1940...may have been on the stands a little later than MMC #4.

I'm 14 books away from a complete run of #16 (the first of the Bissette/Totleben run, though Totleben also worked on #10)through #64 in 9.8 SS. I'm missing #40, #42, #51, #52, #58, and #61 from the run entirely, but that's because I haven't been able to hand 9.8 quality copies to Mr. T or the others yet. http://comics.www.collectors-society.com/registry/comics/PeopleSetDetail.aspx?PeopleSetID=92145

So.

Smarmy...I had to look that one up! Nice word. Was it about your comment or mine? Seriously though. In the spirit of the season, if I offended senior Amadeus then I am sorry. Let's move forward. I wanna talk about turtles. I wasn't offended. These sorts of things are said every day, all the time around here, to and by many people. Asking you to not be offended, and thus offensive in reply, isn't the same thing as being offended. There's a difference. Who is "senior Amadeus"? Is that my dad?

On a related side note... For those of you who enjoyed Tick, I highly recommend its spinoffs, "The Man Eating Cow", and "Paul the Samurai". I don't think I've ever laughed so hard reading a book as I have Man Eating Cow.

Thank you to whoever unlocked this thread. Let's get back to Turtles #1.

Yeah, his trail of thought is just like banging your head against the wall. Brutal. I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears but the ignore feature is something you both should consider. But hey, why do that when you can be abusive? So much more positive for the boards. Commenting on someone's arguments or logic is a far cry from calling them names. My words weren't abusive but if anyone actually cried, I apologize. Nice and smarmy. Well played. You should be proud of yourself. The advice about the ignore feature stands but far too few people will use it. I just wanna talk Turtles,and want to avoid the I'm better, smarter,wiser than you wall of text.I do however like RMA so why put him on an otherwise antiquated ignore function. You have a scroll function, right? Does anyone force you to read these so-called "better, smarter, wiser than you wall of text" posts? Further, does anyone force you to respond to me in such a manner, especially when there are two other people having the exact same discussion from an opposing angle? If speaking with conviction is interpreted by you to be "better, smarter, wiser", rather than simply "speaking with conviction", the ignore function...whether the actual board utility, or your own ability as a grown man to mentally ignore that which you find offensive (but not directed at you)...is absolutely the answer. "STFU!" attempts-to-shame posts like yours are not.

The white variant was printed a decade and a half after the others. I don't think it's a "4th print", but it could reasonably be called that. \ Why they chose MOS #19, and none of the other books, I don't know. Seems a very odd choice.

Here you go: By the way....on a totally unrelated sidepoint, I wanted to point out that this thread and the TMNT #1 Club thread (which needs to be unlocked) have both had the same type of back and forth that this one has, only this one moreso. Same "tone." Same sort of intense discussion. Same sort of "in the details" type back and forth. Totally different outcome (so far.) We should encourage this, and discourage the other (meaning, we should all actively discourage people from internalizing and taking personally these sorts of discussions, and then reporting them to the mods.) I digress...

Other than the DC Universe copies, which we can safely assume were printed in the "cover date 1994 or later" range, but as noted above, that only gives us a range. Some of the books, like MOS #18 2nd, Adv #497 2nd, Action #684 2nd, Superman #74 2nd and Superman #75 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, were reprinted within months, if not weeks, of the original publications in Oct/Nov 1992. Superman #75 was like nothing the industry has seen, before or since, and DC was eager to keep the presses running for as long as they could. And some of the books were reprinted a year or more later, such as all the DC Universe copies. We know that the very latest the books could have been reprinted (in their initial format, MOS #19 white cover (4th?) is a long-after-the-fact anomaly) is late 1996, when the DC Universe logo stopped being used. What is really interesting about DOS/FFAF reprints is that DC published both single issue reprints AND trades of the same story, for use in different formats (trades to book stores, reprints to boxed/packs for sale in K-Marts, Wal-Marts, and the like.) They were really taking as much advantage as they could, which was good for them. True, with one caveat: publishers were re-using ads in this time period for several months at a time, and what could be on the back cover one month could be on the inside front cover another, and the inside back cover another. An example of this would be the Konami "Aliens and Terrorists" ad that appears on the back cover of books like X-Men #266 (8/90.) This ad also appears on the inside front cover of books from April of 1990, May of 1990, and perhaps June of 1990. But, a safe range can be established by the ads, and most obviously for books originally printed in 1987, but with ads that are copyright 1989-1990, etc.

Oh my GOD! oakman29, don't you ever get tired of complaining about what other people choose to post about? If you don't like what I have to say, just ignore me. I don't sit there and complain about the things you say that I find annoying...what gives you the right to do that about anyone else? Your own "logic" fails, because, as always, people who makes comments like yours completely ignore the fact that there are other people involved in the discussion as well.

Yeah, his trail of thought is just like banging your head against the wall. Brutal. My trail of thought isn't difficult to follow, and comments like this don't do anything but create animosity, without good cause.

The only one upset is the unicorn who's frustrated trying to even follow your logic. Why are comments like this necessary? Do they advance the discussion? Or do they just create and advance animosity? My logic is clear and understandable. There's nothing magic about it, there's nothing terribly difficult about it, and I certainly didn't invent it. If that book started to all of the sudden sell for $300, the comic market is so inefficient and slow that it would take weeks or months before the buying frenzy would slow down for all the stragglers to think it through and "perceive". I'm sure you'd be there on the sidelines saying "gee, is this world-famous comic with a micro print run still worth it? Hmmm..." You'd miss out on the greatest buying opportunity in a generation. You've just changed the parameters of the thought exercise. The argument is not about the book "all of the sudden selling for $300." The argument is "that picture contains several million dollars worth of comics." When you start with your premise, that you're looking at several million dollars worth of comics, you have to necessarily follow with whether or not there are buyers for those books at several million dollars. Eventually? Yes, over time, it's certainly possible that those books would all be worth millions of dollars. But they're not worth millions of dollars right now, so you can't say that we are looking at several million dollars worth of books, the way I can post a picture of 3,000 ounces of gold and say we are looking at several million dollars worth of gold. We are looking at potentially several million dollars worth of books. And that's the key to this entire philosophical exercise. If it were possible to have all those books together at one time NOW, (of course, we know that's not possible, which is why this is a thought exercise), you would not be able to get several million dollars for them. You would have to carefully dole them out, slowly, and allow the market to absorb them...and, in the meantime, hope that the bottom doesn't fall out until you're done. If, instead, you tried to sell them all for $300 each, all at once, with a Buy It Now listing for 3,000+ copies...you'd sell many, without a doubt. But it would not be very soon before the market would start asking questions...."what grade are these books?" "Are they restored?" "Why are you selling them all for such a "low" price?" "Is there something wrong with these books?" And, you'd still have less than a million dollars, even if you were able to sell all 3,275 of them, not the "worth literally millions" from your original statement: They aren't worth "millions", literally or not. Ok. This doesn't have any relevance to the discussion at hand, but let's entertain it for a second: In 1984, this book became very popular, in a very short amount of time. By 1986 it was a $150+ book, 100 times its original cover price. Then, the B&W explosion crashed, and this book, along with the rest, dropped significantly in value. But, it was the one book that came out of the whole experience that had some legs. And, by 1989, the Turtles were appearing in video games, and then along came the movies, and the book was a fairly reliable $100 or so book. Then, the mid-90's crash came, and the Turtles fell out of favor for quite some time. By the late 90's, you could find the book for $50 or less. I bought my high grade copy for $66 shipped off of eBay in early 1999. That remained true until the mid-2000s. In fact, the first Universal slabbed 1st print isn't recorded on GPA until 2004. In fact, Turtles was so neglected, the first copy wasn't submitted until late 2003/early 2004. http://www.cgcdata.com/cgc/search/comicid/5000360 It would be a mistake to say ANY collectible has an "inevitable climb." It's illegal to suggest that securities will have an "inevitable climb", because "past performance does not guarantee future results." Yet, in the comics market, people say these things all the time, and no one questions it. No, that was initiated when you said those boxes were "worth literally millions." Figuratively, maybe. Literally? No. As I have shown, that statement is not factual. Those boxes are NOT "worth literally millions", even if it were possible to have them all in one place at one time again. On the contrary...the "silliness" is saying those boxes are "worth literally millions."

Trouble with that is its all such a fairy tale. You're asking us to create this ridiculous scenario. Why are you even bringing it up? Have the turtles offended you personally? Why are you making this personal? This is a philosophical exercise. Are you allowing a philosophical exercise to influence your emotions? I'm "bringing it up" because you brought it up. "Market capitalization" does not work with collectibles. Of course, which is what I said in my first reply. It's something we will never know. Because your basic premise...that the "market cap on those is 8 figures"...is faulty from the outset. You began with a faulty premise, and now you're not pleased because someone pointed out the flaw...? That doesn't make much sense. Yes, a point I made earlier in the thread. Agreed, for your sake.

Yes, YOU (and GM8) were the ones who created the "fictional glut" by saying you were looking at "several million dollars." That can only be true IF the price were to remain the same while all those books came to market at the same time. I only followed your statements to their logical end. You don't see that, huh...? They are worth a "crapload" precisely because of supply AND demand. No demand (that is, all copies showing up at once) means they are no longer worth "a crapload." This is basic economics.

hogwash. Its thin @ FULL fmv / 5k. Let's put that statement back in its context: "The market for TMNT #1 is so thin, even 100 copies coming on to the market at the same time would substantively affect the value of the book." If 100 copies showed up for sale at the same time, it would have a substantive affect on the value of the rest, until those copies were absorbed. It every single copy that exists did that, it would be a much more dramatic event, with much more dramatic results. 3,000+ copies appearing all at once makes the book no longer "HTF", and would have a substantial affect on demand. Yes, and if you saw 30...just 30....copies of Action #1 hit the market at the same time, guess what? It's no longer a million+ dollar book. This isn't rocket science, after all.

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000. It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them. But that's something we will never know. I've gotta speculate that it is absolutely true that those boxes are worth $1,000,000. Even if every book hit the market at the same time today, you would need a pool of 3,275 individuals willing to pay $300 per copy. Given the popularity of the turtles, I would be shocked if you could not find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 per copy. I imagine you'd be very, very hard pressed to find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 for a copy of TMNT #1 if they were all available at the same time. Remember...that includes every single copy, in every single grade, and there are a ton bunch of restored copies floating around, raw AND slabbed. People just couldn't resist those black magic markers. Bullshizzle. @300 you'd sell every copy without trying. In fact, I bet you might even be able to find a single person to take the stack for the million bucks you're talking about. Doubt it. At least you were brief this time What, does reading a lot of words hurt your brain...?

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000. It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them. But that's something we will never know. Sorry to throw sunshine on your rainy parade but all 3275 copies would never come to the market at once. That is correct, as I already stated here: In case I wasn't clear, that's what "that's something we will never know" means: not only will all those copies not come to market at once, not even all of those copies exist anymore. Correct. That's what makes it speculation. Even in "black Monday", there were still buyers....not *everyone* sold. No, there is potential, and speculation. There aren't millions of dollars in that picture. There's only potential, and that potential isn't likely even in the nearly impossible scenario of all extant copies coming to the market at once. It's nothing but speculation. The market for TMNT #1 is so thin, even 100 copies coming on to the market at the same time would substantively affect the value of the book. No rain. Just facts. Oh how I love stubborn negativity. There's no negativity here. You are reading that which doesn't exist. Simply expressing a dissenting opinion does not mean "negativity." Also...it takes more than one person to be "stubborn." If you're going to have a discussion, let's save the melodrama and just discuss. There's no need to get upset about it. One more time (is this what I label as "stubborn negativity...?): if they were all available right now, a lot of people who would otherwise be buyers at $300 would absolutely pause. Do not misunderstand: demand is built on perception. If it is perceived that there's not a lot of demand (or NO demand) and everyone is, instead, selling, then a lot of people who would otherwise be "no brainer" buyers at $300 would stop and reconsider. If it is perceived that the people who own them now no longer want to own them, for whatever reason...that will play a heavy psychological game on the market, and you probably won't find all those buyers. This is economic philosophy we're discussing, here. You are, in all probability, correct. And what I would say to you is: don't read "negativity" into this philosophical exercise. It's ok to be disagreed with. Really. It's not the end of the world. Perhaps. That is speculation, of course...but the generation who grew up with the Turtles is now in their 30's...remember, the Turtles went mainstream in 1990, with the first movie. That was nearly 26 years ago. Those who were born in the 90's may not have the same sort of appreciation for the Turtles. We shall see.

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000. It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them. But that's something we will never know. I've gotta speculate that it is absolutely true that those boxes are worth $1,000,000. Even if every book hit the market at the same time today, you would need a pool of 3,275 individuals willing to pay $300 per copy. Given the popularity of the turtles, I would be shocked if you could not find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 per copy. I imagine you'd be very, very hard pressed to find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 for a copy of TMNT #1 if they were all available at the same time. Remember...that includes every single copy, in every single grade, and there are a ton bunch of restored copies floating around, raw AND slabbed. People just couldn't resist those black magic markers. Bullshizzle. @300 you'd sell every copy without trying. In fact, I bet you might even be able to find a single person to take the stack for the million bucks you're talking about. Doubt it.

If all copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. If many copies came on the market at the same time, the value would plummet. And that's assuming all these copies even exist, much less could be sold for an average of $3,000. It's fun to speculate that the boxes would be "worth millions", but it's not realistic. If all 3275 (or thereabouts) copies came on the market at the same time, they may not even be worth $1,000,000. For the boxes to be worth millions, you'd have to have buyers willing to pay millions for them. But that's something we will never know. I've gotta speculate that it is absolutely true that those boxes are worth $1,000,000. Even if every book hit the market at the same time today, you would need a pool of 3,275 individuals willing to pay $300 per copy. Given the popularity of the turtles, I would be shocked if you could not find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 per copy. I imagine you'd be very, very hard pressed to find 3,275 people willing to pay $300 for a copy of TMNT #1 if they were all available at the same time. Remember...that includes every single copy, in every single grade, and there are a ton bunch of restored copies floating around, raw AND slabbed. People just couldn't resist those black magic markers.