RockMyAmadeus

Do you understand what the word "plot" means? "Alan Moore rewrites Swampy's origins" is not a plot. Ok, now I think you're really just playing for fun. No one can be this purposely obtuse. That is precisely what the plot to Swamp Thing #21 is. Admit it, you're just screwing around, right...? All the rest of this is your usual silly rejoinders and insults, because you, like the artist you admire, have no substance.

What's hilarious about this cover, is that if there were any question as to whether Wolverine's head coming out of his left shoulder was an illusion of perspective, Liefeld actually draws the neck hole of his shirt off center from his chest, making it look deliberate. While the extra buckles and arm bandolier are typical Liefeld, I'm impressed that Wolverine's bicep isn't twice the size of his head, and that his barely larger than his forearm. This must be one of those "better" pieces I keep reading about. I, too, was impressed by this when I first saw it. So much so, I bought multiple copies (all of which I still have.) But....I was 17, and unschooled in the ways of illustration. What was it that drew you in? I have to imagine it's the line work as the pose is pretty static and not dynamic. It was Wolverine, and it was drawn by the hot new artist on New Mutants. And I was looking to make money. I didn't actually buy these until at least April or May of 1990.

What's hilarious about this cover, is that if there were any question as to whether Wolverine's head coming out of his left shoulder was an illusion of perspective, Liefeld actually draws the neck hole of his shirt off center from his chest, making it look deliberate. While the extra buckles and arm bandolier are typical Liefeld, I'm impressed that Wolverine's bicep isn't twice the size of his head, and that his barely larger than his forearm. This must be one of those "better" pieces I keep reading about. I, too, was impressed by this when I first saw it. So much so, I bought multiple copies (all of which I still have.) But....I was 17, and unschooled in the ways of illustration.

I agree with much of what's said here - he is lazy, he does steal poses, he does miss deadlines, and he's been known to be a jerk at times, steal artists from other studios, etc. And I'm personally not a fan of his current work. The complaints about anatomy, feet, and long legs are stylistic choices he makes and I forgive those the same way I don't criticize Kirby or Mignola or Lee for their choices. BUT, what I am saying is that I loved his prime work from the early 90s and think people should at least give him his due for the quality work at his peak. His work circa X-Force #1 was unlike anything else in comics and was popular enough to establish a clone army trying to mimic his success. The attitude that he was horrible at every moment of his life, never had any talent, that he somehow magically coasted by on luck, and that millions of people were duped in the early 90s is downright silly. Give the man credit for the quality work. Most refuse to see any difference. The first step to Liefeld recovery is realizing he's no longer the artist you thought he was. The next step is realizing that he never was. You're half way there. Do we need to do an intervention....?

I'm laughing so hard, tears are rolling down my face... Yes, Rob Liefeld created a character called "Forearm"... What's next? "Handprint, Thumbnail, Fibula, Quadricep, Femoral Artery...ATTACK!!!"

This is a straw man argument. No one who has commented here has done what you claimed. Everyone here who argured that he's horrible and terrible did so by pointing to many different examples. You cannot even demonstrate what are the "same tired examples", because you made that statement up. The examples ARE tired, but not for the reasons you point out, and they are hardly the same. The examples, in this case, are endless.

Thanks so much for continuing to illuminate us with your insightful opinions. You really bring a level of clarity and intellectualism to this discussion. I do try. Because it results in rational arguments and coherent thought processes...? Is that the point you're trying to make here?

So what determines "quality" work? Your opinion? Perfect accuracy to human anatomy? I flip through much of his work in X-Force #1 and think it's absolutely amazing. It's bold inking, it's enjoyable storytelling, it's fun action, great pacing...but no matter how clearly I point out the good or quality things, people will invariably find things to nitpick no matter what. That's because it's none of these things (with the possible exception of "bold inking." I can spill an entire bottle of ink on a page, and call it "bold inking.") What determines QUALITY work is what has been said over and over again: perspective, anatomy, form, consistency, composition, layout, linework, proportion. These are the things that OBJECTIVELY determine quality work. Liefeld has none of them. Quickly: summarize the plot of X-Force #1, using 15 words or less. Here's an example: Swamp Things #21: The Anatomy Lesson: Alan Moore completely rewrites Swampy's origins, while remaining true to all that came before. Now you try. Or, for the sake of objective analysis. Cover the word balloons. Now tell me what's happening. YOU CAN'T, because the page consists of nothing but POSES. Is it the opening number to a Broadway musical? Is it a post-Apocalyptic nightmare, where humanity has been replaced by garish, overdressed Pouch-People? Is it an avant-garde fashion show in Milan? Storytelling?? Give it UP already.

I agree with much of what's said here - he is lazy, he does steal poses, he does miss deadlines, and he's been known to be a jerk at times, steal artists from other studios, etc. And I'm personally not a fan of his current work. The complaints about anatomy, feet, and long legs are stylistic choices he makes and I forgive those the same way I don't criticize Kirby or Mignola or Lee for their choices. BUT, what I am saying is that I loved his prime work from the early 90s and think people should at least give him his due for the quality work at his peak. His work circa X-Force #1 was unlike anything else in comics and was popular enough to establish a clone army trying to mimic his success. The attitude that he was horrible at every moment of his life, never had any talent, that he somehow magically coasted by on luck, and that millions of people were duped in the early 90s is downright silly. Give the man credit for the quality work. Most refuse to see any difference. i 100% believe that this is what happened though, i have yet to see anybody show any examples of his "quality" work i think what happened was that his style of huge guns and muscles worked with young children, kids that young that they probabily never even had a thought in their tiny minds that people actually wrote/drew the books they were reading...he's basically the drawing equivelant of the Ultimate Warrior Reality is IMPERVIOUS to childhood memories.

You are amazingly hilarious. Let me spell it out for you, since you just can't seem to grasp this: There has never been, at any point on Rob Liefeld's entire career, ever, a time where he produced "quality work". EVER. NEVER. There is a time when he TRIED (and that ended around 1989), but you seem to labor under this massive misconception that, at least for some time period, Rob Liefeld operated within the rules of standard artistic practice. This has NEVER been true, EVER. In fact, the very example you, yourself, threw up to demonstrate his "best" work is filled to the gills with errors and flaws! The only "credit" he is due is that he managed to pull off a style that made him millions of dollars. Like One Direction, Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, New Kids on the Block, POPULARITY is NO indicator of quality. Give it UP, already!

Is that kid wearing black opera gloves....?

Remember, folks....people only think the world is round because their friends do.....

Right. On. Cue.

I imagine most of us could. These fallacious arguments, like "can you do better?" (which is easily put down by merely mentioning the existence of "editors"), are standard form for most anyone who is incapable of forming a cogent, rational response to a position with which they disagree. They also should have been drummed out of people by 10th grade, but we all know that rhetoric was one of the first things to go in a school system designed to turn out drones (just after music and fine art.) Fully half the "debate" that goes on around here (or anywhere) is composed of little but fallacy, straw men, illogic, and ad hominem. And few people seem to understand what's wrong with any of that, or why that's a problem. Speaking and writing properly....? Well.... via Imgflip Meme Maker

No one can, which is what makes this guy's overemotional, uberdefensive posturing on behalf of Liefeld so fascinating...

no, no, no, we've learned from this thread that Liefeld's seeming inability to draw proper anatomy is a design choice, not a deficiency in his artistic skillzzzz. Let me try and get the gist of the "opposing side": "99% of the artists working today have a terrible time drawing hairlines, and who says Liefeld's hairlines are terrible anyways? They're EXCITING, that's what they are! You just hate Liefeld, and are jealous cuz you've never even looked at a comic book in your life, so how would you know?" Is that close...?

Here is one of the highlights...the single best Punisher cover of the title after #129: A perfect cover.

You just forgot to.....rise above it all!

John Byrne doesn't do CGC SS, so any pieces he did in the past are worth far, far more than they would normally be.

Swipe? Please. ROM is CLEARLY looking in the other direction.

I won't believe it until I see the sheet and the makeup.

Worst. Debbie Downer Meme. EVER. I give it a 9.2. But only a scanned 9.2, not an in-hand 9.2.

Nothing says trustworthy like starting a thread on an internet board chat room asking people to ask you random pointless questions about your life to gain acceptance. What a great idea. I think it's a good idea people will at least get to know me better! Just as it is a good idea to get to know people from Nigeria with those lottery tickets off the internet right? no it wouldn't be good to know Nigerian people because they are scammers, I however am not but because I have nothing to back it up I'll earn my trust here! And the award for the most racist comment of the thread is...... Racist....? I didn't know Nigeria was a race....

Keep in mind that McFarlane, although better, lacks greatly in terms of anatomy et al. he always compensated with the composition, but many things, as much "pleasing" they may look, they are still embarassing (including many Peter and MJ faces, honestly). The "Spider-Man" series is really bad, at least the first issues. Probably on Spawn got better and better, but I did not follow him afterwards. Yes, but if you go back and look at the origins of McFarlane's work (especially Infinity Inc), you can see he made a real effort to at least try and learn the basics. It's what got him into the business. Very 'Comic Book Drawing 101' type stuff and very interesting to see. You can ABSOLUTELY see Kirby and Smith's influence on McFarlane in his Infinity run (a run which does not get the love it deserves, by the way.) McFarlane knew the rules, and showed it, over a period of several years.

Keep in mind that McFarlane, although better, lacks greatly in terms of anatomy et al. he always compensated with the composition, but many things, as much "pleasing" they may look, they are still embarassing (including many Peter and MJ faces, honestly). The "Spider-Man" series is really bad, at least the first issues. Probably on Spawn got better and better, but I did not follow him afterwards. Yes, Todd was definitely phoning it in by this point, and it's really sad. Some of his faces and anatomy towards his later Amazing run are... ...well, they're bad. But hey, we'll always have Spidey #300!