RockMyAmadeus

You're right. Everyone was pretty much on the same page with the opinion of his work - so no arguments. That's what I meant to say.

I fully comprehend why, I just don't agree with it. And again - for his prime stuff. Knock the current stuff all you want, but when he was at his peak it was great. And a mob that wants to rip apart someone's art can always do it no matter who the artist. Liefeld may simply be an easier target than most:) Well, there is definitely a division between people who separate his professional reputation from his professional work, and those who focus only on the art. Since we're speaking of just art: I was never a Liefeld fan as far back as when I had my shop in the mid 90s. I remember many of the same arguments that we're reading here, but I didn't really care as much either way back then about it. I can't add anything that other people haven't already said so far. In retrospect, people had the same comments towards Dan Panosian's work (who was Marvel's Liefled clone when he left). I don't think anyone WAS having these arguments. It is pretty well universally understood that Liefeld was and is a technical illiterate, and hid his lack of ability by drawing lots of small lines to distract the eye and make the work seem more "intense." None of the above is an "insult." It is an honest and candid evaluation of the work. It is shoddy, at best. It will not, and cannot, hold up to standard artistic practice. It fails, in many different ways (perspective, anatomy, linework, framing, clarity, etc etc etc.) If one enjoys it, more power to them. I certainly do, up to New Mutants #100. Lots of people enjoy Twinkies. That does not make them of the same quality as a prime filet mignon, and it certainly doesn't mean that "well, then, you must hate Twinkies!!" if you recognize that they are the nutritional equivalent of Styrofoam. PS. Dan Panosian was even worse. How that guy got work, I will never know. They should all thank Todd McFarlane every day of their working lives.

Yes, "Sin City: Silent Night" was one of them. Miller is probably, along with Eisner, the single greatest storyteller in the entire history of comics. The man simply knows how to make the art tell the story. There's almost nothing he has drawn that you can't cover the dialogue and still know pretty much what's going on.

A few other artists have done it, but it's very difficult, because it requires a mastery of storytelling to pull it off. Batman #433 is the issue you're referring to, and it is Byrne and Aparo at their absolute best in terms of their craft. I love this book, and can never own too many copies of it. The other is GI Joe #21, and again, Larry Hama and Steve Leialoha....also storytelling masters. Liefeld can't do this, and never could. McFarlane would have a hard time pulling it off.

Getting to knoooooowwww you....getting to know alllll about youuuuuu.....

Wow. After everything posted in this thread, you still don't seem to comprehend why Rob Liefeld "gets treated badly"? I love it. I think you just might be Rob Liefeld. There is none so blind as he who will not see.

I think the most interesting part about this whole thing is that this RF character has been a member of these boards for 5 years....and HALF of his posts are in this very thread, defending Rob Liefeld. Talk about being dedicated to the bit!

It probably depends on the book and the grade. You people, with your insistence on details, always so critical! I bet you've never even SEEN a Rob Liefeld drawing!

I enjoy the work for what it was, and as with most comics, nostalgia plays a large part. One of us has attempted to clearly explain himself repeatedly, offering examples and explanation, as well as admitting to exaggeration and that much of Liefeld's later art isn't very good.. The other of us continues to reuse the word "strawman"(hotkey?) and sling insults, while clarifying his argument as "gooble gobble gooble gobble". I'm starting to feel like I'm having a discussion with a toddler. You are one highly, highly entertaining poster.

It's becoming pretty clear that you got a "Word of the Day" desk calendar and don't know how to turn the page. I spilled coffee on it, and now it's all one big gelatinous mess, with October 19th, 2008 stuck on top. But thanks for telling everyone.

So, Batman...are you looking for a Robin? Eh, no. Catowman is good enough. I think "Cat OW, MAN!" is probably close to accurate, too....

you don't like this thread? they are not laughing with you, they are laughing at you. I noticed but I don't care I'm here to gain trust by buying and selling stuff on here and you know what they say "he who laughs laughs last!" I agree. "Ask not what you can do, ask your country for things to do."

Yeah, but she's not bad looking at all.

I find it interesting that your favorite Deadpool drawing by Liefeld looks the least Liefeld of anything I've seen him do. It's fairly obvious ( to me anyway ) that whoever "painted" the finished piece, fixed a lot of things along the way. there is definitely some Liefeld behind the paint somewhere, you can see the inability to grasp how weaponry is held Look at the muzzle flashes, too. The only way to realistically get an effect like that is to fire four firearms at the same time.

Indeed. In other words, the guy was a kid, and much like my Poseidon Adventure story, has mythologized the work in his head, because of what it represents to his psyche. Reality is impervious to childhood memory.

The real problem with Liefeld is simple: he never learned the rules in the first place. You can't break the rules if you don't even know what they are. And hiding technical inability behind a style doesn't change that. Louise Simonson, the writer of New Mutants during most of Liefeld's run, said much the same thing: (I'm paraphrasing) "Rob wasn't interested in telling a story. He was only interested in drawing big splash pages that he could sell." One does not need to be a working artist to be able to understand the principles of art, and understand when those principles are violated...or a whole lot of editors, past and present, wouldn't have ever been able to do their job. The fact that Liefeld has made some incredibly classless and unethical moves during his career doesn't mean his art is technically poor, no. The fact that his art is technically poor does that. But his other life choices certainly don't help. http://www.peterdavid.net/2010/08/20/giving-credit-where-credit-is-due/ And I own multiple hundreds of copies of New Mutants #85-100.

Hahahahahahaha, so let me make sure I'm understanding this - it's completely ok to rip someone apart if it's not to their faces and they're not there to defend themselves, but if they're on the thread I should sugar coat it it sprinkles?? Hahahahahahahahahahahah. Strawman argument.

Strawman argument.

I have seen nothing "objective" in your postings yet:) In fact, most of what I've seen is someone who ignores half of what's written to change direction and focus on whatever supports your own next criticism. I exaggerated about the depth of no backgrounds in comics and gave a variety of examples...to which you simply changed direction onto another argument:) In no way am I telling people that they're wrong about their opinions - but I am challenging whether most of them truly formed them on their own, as opposed to repeating what the person next to them said in mob mentality - which it's pretty clear this thread devolved to rather quickly. Treat for you: This is just more of the same snide, snarky, emotional responses and strawman positions. If you showed any indication that you were capable of having an honest discussion, I'd answer your claims. But you're not, so I might as well be typing "gooble gobble gooble gobble." It has the same exact effect. But please, by all means, continue to dig your hole. It's very entertaining.

I, too, think Comics General should be treated as my own personal Facebook page.

I WANT THIS. I WANT AN SS COPY OF THIS!!! well I doubt I have anything close to a 9.8 candidate, but I do have a few copies left of it... Muy excellente!

Here's a great example of a strawman argument. You said: "But I doubt any of you have produced even a single comic in your life." Then, when people posted examples of actual comics they produced, you set up a strawman, which you promptly tore down, by calling it "seriously horrendous looking mess"...completely ignoring the fact that your original contention was wrong. No one said it was better than Liefeld's work (though it is.) They simply posted examples that proved your original contention wrong. And when your contention was proved wrong, you changed your argument. PS. No one called Liefeld's work "seriously horrendous looking mess"...so why do you, and worse, right to these people's faces?

I WANT THIS. I WANT AN SS COPY OF THIS!!!

OK, here's what's ridiculous about this whole thread. The topic was "What is your Favorite Art,Drawing or story by Rob Liefeld?" It wasn't a thread about "who don't you like" or "what makes good art" or any of the many places most of the vitriol would fit in. It was an honest question that has now had a small handful of posts related to the topic and about 15 pages of trolls that come out of the woodwork to mock someone they don't like. Yeah, I'm an unabashed fan of the work Liefeld did when I was a kid. It was great, especially when you have the perspective to remember how formulaic and identical most comics were back then. I suspect none of you know the guy, I suspect none of you follow his work, and I'm almost certain none of you have done anything with your lives worthy of this soapbox you're preaching from. If you're John Byrne or Sal Buscema or Jack Kirby and know what it's like to actually produce comics for 25 years, sure, your opinion would be interesting to hear. But I doubt any of you have produced even a single comic in your life. I don't go jumping on a thread for an artist I don't like just to mock him and his fans. It's juvenile. Some of us actually wanted to have a chat about Liefeld art and what we enjoyed. Instead we have the comic book equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church picketing out front.. I don't really see much difference between most of these posts and the same things I see from those vilifying gays and minorities and women. People hiding behind masks and mocking someone to satisfy their own small egos:) You are a hilariously entertaining poster, I have to admit...but you really don't understand the difference between "mocking" and "objective analysis." And I'm not sure where you are seeing the "mocking" of his fans. And "formulaic"? The late 80's/early 90's scene that Rob Liefeld entered was one of the richest, most diverse artistic periods in the entire history of the industry. You make odd, uneducated blanket statements and assumptions that are simply false. You've indicated that you don't even know what a strawman argument is. So, why are you so adamant about telling everyone else that they're wrong...? What do you bring to the table? If you want to take this as a personal attack on you, you're more than welcome. It is a mistake, but it is a common one. But for your sake, you should learn how to disagree with people without the emotional, snarky and snide responses. It wins you nothing. Or don't. Either way, you are immensely entertaining.

The industry needed a fall guy and too bad Liefeld was "it". Young guy who did not know any better got thrown under the bus. IMHO speculators who bought comics instead of investing in their retirement should share the blame as well - if there is demand, marvel, image, dc, et al will keep printing regardless of qualiity Voice of reason. Wow. Liefeld as innocent victim. I don't think I've heard that one before. There are some definite gems in this thread. Too bad they're not open minded, and willing to learn.