RockMyAmadeus

If you can't tell Liefeld from McFarlane, Lee, Larsen, or Campbell, you're not paying very close attention.

Your arguments are filled with straw men, that you set up, and then proceed to knock down ("As opposed to 90% of current comics?" - no one is comparing Liefeld to "current comics", or, indeed, anything at all. And this is but one of many you have posted.) You may believe whatever you wish about anything. However, if you're going to have a debate about any issue, I would suggest learning how to do so without the need for strawman arguments. Otherwise, debate is just a needless exercise in masochism. Take care!

Present day I won't argue. I'm not a fan of his current stuff. But his peak stuff, on New Mutants, X-Force, and Youngblood, was quite good. Have you ever read New Mutants #100? If you have, grab a copy and try and count the pages that have recognizable backgrounds. Anything, a wall, a tree, a lamp. Anything. No, it wasn't quite good. It has never been quite good. It was different. As to your claim that it was "good enough to make X millions"....have you ever heard of a film called "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace"....? I'll hang up and take your answer on the air.

Well, since this thread immediately devolved into a bunch of sheep baah-ing the same tired, old criticisms and showing no appreciation or interest in actually discussing art, I'll actually answer the topic itself. I think this is his best piece ever: You wanna discuss art....? Fine, let's discuss art: Look at the background. It's nothing but a poorly drawn "brick" wall. Look at the feet. Look at whatever that is Cable is wearing. It looks like a suit someone would put on for space or deep sea exploration. He cannot possibly move around in that contraption. What the hell is growing on Warpath's right forearm?? And why is it bigger than his HEAD? And why is his fist bigger than everyone ELSE'S head? Where is Domino's left foot? What is Shatterstar sitting on? Why are Boom-Boom and Cannonball standing on a platform that isn't shown? Look at Cable's left "foot"....then compare it to his right "foot" This can go on and on and on....there are endless errors on this piece. Beat me to it!! We could do this all day, and not run out of things to critique. The problem here is that you could do this FOR ANYONE. Pick any artist and any piece of art, and if you've already decided you don't like the artist, you'll find plenty of things to mock. No, you cannot. The difference between Liefeld and Kirby is quite simple: the mishaps and mistakes and incongruencies and misproportions for Kirby are the exception. With Liefeld, they are the rule. Rob Liefeld has always tried to hide his technical inability behind a lot of squiggly lines, and call it "style"...and for the most part, he succeeds. Your assumption..."if you've already decided you don't like the artist"....is a false one. While it's true that many people are habitual liars and delude even themselves, there are, in fact, honest people who can speak honestly about a subject without worrying whether they will "offend" others with the truth, and who don't speak one way or the other depending on their agenda. In that respect, an honest person can honestly evaluate both the positive AND negative aspects of another's talent, whether they are a personal fan or not. Bona fides...? I had the #6 registry set for Liefeld New Mutants, and am simply waiting for an opportunity to take over #1.

Well, since this thread immediately devolved into a bunch of sheep baah-ing the same tired, old criticisms and showing no appreciation or interest in actually discussing art, I'll actually answer the topic itself. I think this is his best piece ever: You wanna discuss art....? Fine, let's discuss art: Look at the background. It's nothing but a poorly drawn "brick" wall. Look at the feet. Look at whatever that is Cable is wearing. It looks like a suit someone would put on for space or deep sea exploration. He cannot possibly move around in that contraption. What the hell is growing on Warpath's right forearm?? And why is it bigger than his HEAD? And why is his fist bigger than everyone ELSE'S head? Where is Domino's left foot? What is Shatterstar sitting on? Why are Boom-Boom and Cannonball standing on a platform that isn't shown? Look at Cable's left "foot"....then compare it to his right "foot" This can go on and on and on....there are endless errors on this piece. Beat me to it!! We could do this all day, and not run out of things to critique.

Well, since this thread immediately devolved into a bunch of sheep baah-ing the same tired, old criticisms and showing no appreciation or interest in actually discussing art, I'll actually answer the topic itself. I think this is his best piece ever: You wanna discuss art....? Fine, let's discuss art: Look at the background. It's nothing but a poorly drawn "brick" wall. Look at the feet. Look at whatever that is Cable is wearing. It looks like a suit someone would put on for space or deep sea exploration. He cannot possibly move around in that contraption. What the hell is growing on Warpath's right forearm?? And why is it bigger than his HEAD? And why is his fist bigger than everyone ELSE'S head? Where is Domino's left foot? What is Shatterstar sitting on? Why are Boom-Boom and Cannonball standing on a platform that isn't shown? Look at Cable's left "foot"....then compare it to his right "foot" This can go on and on and on....there are endless errors on this piece.

there is no way i'd have paid but then again there is no way i'd have 7 Liefeld drawn books Nostalgia is hard to bargain with....

Plus, he charged me $140 to sign 7 books (all of 30 seconds), and he couldn't even be bothered to do one little head sketch.

30 years later i can't remember what happened either, other than i know swords were used to kill things. anyway, i remember thinking it was pretty cool, but heck, i was probably 11 or 12 then, i don't remember, and the hefty cover price might have resulted in my not finsihing out the series as that was like what, 10 books out of the 4/$1 box? I read it through for the first time 6-7 years ago. I had started to read the first issue, but like so many series (Crisis #1, I've read probably 6 times, can't seem to get past #2...same with Infinite Crisis, too), I had to force myself to read it through.

I read it. It was passable. The art was magnificent, "new" Miller. But, since the story didn't stick with me, and I can't tell you what happened, that says much about it.

And something that always needs to be mentioned... CGC has graded 2+ million books...maybe approaching 3 million. Whatever it is, it is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of what exists. It's not even the print run of Superman #75. Yes, attrition has claimed most books from the 30's, 40's, and 50's. But this was also an era in which 1 billion comic books a year were being sold! It's not only the tip of the iceberg, it's literally just the first couple of inches. Most of those books will never see CGC. Most of them are not worth it. But there are still plenty, plenty of books....millions...that can, and probably will, make their way to wherever CGC is.

If ever a dead horse was beaten, it's this one by you. We're talking about how CGC grades then vs. now. I'm pretty sure not every overgraded book that is in an old label is only overgraded because of SCS. +

Of course you don't see them, that's the whole point of the Peter Principle of Comics. Tightly graded books have a propensity for being resubbed (with or without additional manipulations), whereas 9.6 books with 1/4" creases remain in stasis. Who's going to resub that X-men 113? No one, that's who. (thumbs u I'm not sure I follow your logic. I believe what RMA said was that he doesn't see [only] tightness in the early years (only being mine and added for clarification). He sees both. Is that correct? Correct! I don't see the "era of tightness" overall; I see tightness and looseness just as in every other time period under consideration (and keeping in mind that I, too, have been buying slabs for well over a decade myself, long before the CPR game kicked into high gear.) I have cracked plenty of books that had *potential* (but were not obviously undergraded as is, for the most part)...but I have not seen acres of tightly graded books, and...again, by the aforementioned Peter Principle of Comics...or "PPC" for short...the only ones that remain from the era, at least that enter the channels of commerce, are the loose grades. A forensic analysis of all remaining slabs from the era will skew, now, to actually being a LOOSELY graded era, not a tight one. The point remains: there ARE loosely graded books from the era, as evidenced by the remaining "no one will crack that 9.6 X-Men #113" slabs.

Of course you don't see them, that's the whole point of the Peter Principle of Comics. Tightly graded books have a propensity for being resubbed (with or without additional manipulations), whereas 9.6 books with 1/4" creases remain in stasis. Who's going to resub that X-men 113? No one, that's who. (thumbs u You realize, of course, there's no way to prove that anymore....? If all the tightly graded books have all been cracked out, pressed, and resubbed, leaving only the loose grades behind...the evidence no longer exists to prove one way or the other. I suppose "lack of evidence" is evidence of a sort...

I have been finding plenty of old label books (I seek these out) from 1970-2000 that are overgraded. One example does not a pattern make, nor two, nor a hundred, true...but they DO exist. I just picked up a 9.6 X-Men #113...has a 1/4" light color breaking crease in the bottom right corner, along with some NCB chatter along the top edge...it was graded 3/10/2003. This is a book I wouldn't grade higher than 9.2, specifically because of the CB crease. I can't speak to Gold or Silver; I don't deal with those. But for 1970-up, I just don't see the tightness of the early years.

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time? Some inconsiderate boob could counter this statement by asking.....Who would think you are good, constant and consistent at knowing OA? The real challenge is finding an inconsiderate boob to ask that question. Maybe the unknown rich dude could ask it after winning the page in the auction. Does he have to be rich to win it? According to the estimates from the OA Illuminati, it wouldn't buy a shack here in Burbank.

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time? Some inconsiderate boob could counter this statement by asking.....Who would think you are good, constant and consistent at knowing OA? The real challenge is finding an inconsiderate boob to ask that question.

It's appreciated. The real problem in these debates is that people can't control their emotions, and their egos are tied up in their positions. It's not enough to disagree, but the attitude has to be "you don't know anything, why don't you just shut up and let the grown-ups talk?" Why anyone tolerates it, I don't know, but it's very common. You can disagree with someone, and not speak to them as if they're a 5 year old child who's never been out of the house. God knows, I've done enough of that to others myself.

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time? If you can't make your point without being insulting, why even waste time posting? But thank you for retracting your "you weren't there, so you couldn't possibly know" argument. (thumbs u

To use the vernacular: "O, no u dint! Ema-em gets HELLA play on u-tube!"

Only the ones that have been farted on.

I tried once. Couldn't do it. Join the club. Heavy is the head that wears the crown....of awesomeness. Now quit being fun, I have work to do!

Hey, quit editing after the fact.....

My mama drives a 1971 Mach 1 Mustang. What does *your* mama got, Sonny Boy?