RockMyAmadeus

Yes. In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit. I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that. Is that how you got his net worth info too? Those net worth sites aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't printed on paper I can't categorically speak to the US since I don't live or practice there but in canada unless someone's net worth gets discussed in a public trial or something there would be no way to ever reliably get the net worth of a public figure. You might be able to find out what certain assets in the person's name (such as real estate) are worth but other assets like stock portfolios or others assets held in a private corporation owned by the individual you'd never be able to find out about, to say absolutely nothing of the liabilities the person may or may not have, which is again to say nothing about the liabilities companies owned by the person may or may not have. Let alone for companies owned by companies owned by the individual. Or companies owned by the individual's family trust. Dun & Bradstreet, at least they used to, would get paid a nice fee for trying to figure this out. This isn't finding the meaning of life or anything. Is it perfect? No. But the $115-160 million estimate is pretty broad too. Heck, wasn't Master P worth like $150 million at some point? Eminem has to be worth as much as Master P! Yeah, it's not unreasonable to conclude the guy has a lot of money, certainly enough to spend a small chunk like this without worrying about it, which was the point. A little bit off from the "blurry pic of her 4th toenail" analogy. Oh shut up already. As I said its obvious he has a lot of money. And as I said it was a side note. You can pay Dun & Bradstreet to wash yo mama's car and to figure out the number of molecules the moon is comprised of. Doesn't mean they are going to get it right and I guarantee you that the valuation will be qualified nine ways to sunday.

Yes. In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit. I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that. Is that how you got his net worth info too? Those net worth sites aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't printed on paper I can't categorically speak to the US since I don't live or practice there but in canada unless someone's net worth gets discussed in a public trial or something there would be no way to ever reliably get the net worth of a public figure. You might be able to find out what certain assets in the person's name (such as real estate) are worth but other assets like stock portfolios or others assets held in a private corporation owned by the individual you'd never be able to find out about, to say absolutely nothing of the liabilities the person may or may not have, which is again to say nothing about the liabilities companies owned by the person may or may not have. Let alone for companies owned by companies owned by the individual. Or companies owned by the individual's family trust. Dun & Bradstreet, at least they used to, would get paid a nice fee for trying to figure this out. This isn't finding the meaning of life or anything. Is it perfect? No. But the $115-160 million estimate is pretty broad too. Heck, wasn't Master P worth like $150 million at some point? Eminem has to be worth as much as Master P! Yeah, it's not unreasonable to conclude the guy has a lot of money, certainly enough to spend a small chunk like this without worrying about it, which was the point. A little bit off from the "blurry pic of her 4th toenail" analogy. As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing. Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

I just wish I had a 221st page.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-DC-Comic-2-Pack-Justice-League-of-America-69-Superman-18-Unopened-/291099693268?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=Tin0xA07ZvYfF06iu5Ts2W%252Blp%252BM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc http://www.ebay.com/itm/291099695517?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Not counting buyer's premium? What is that, monopoly money? What's $37,000 among friends....?

Me too. I need to pick up some more copies.

You need to stop making the popularity fallacy. Fallacious arguments are a sign of weak positions.

You keep arguing something that no one is disputing. No one is disputing your premise. No one is arguing against this, that for the majority of the OA market, outsiders don't get involved at the top on a whim. Why do you keep arguing as if anyone is? THIS piece is different. THIS piece is special. THIS piece is "out of the ordinary." THIS piece. Not the market in general. THIS piece. THIS piece breaks the rules. THIS piece has a greater chance of being acquired by someone who is not "the usual suspects" because it is something above and beyond even the upper echelons of original art. THIS piece, more than any other on the market for a long time, symbolizes something that has *become* universal, and the ordinary arguments don't apply. Can you please just accept this as obvious like everybody else? PS. There are just as many intricate details about coins as there are about comics. Do you know what a VAM number is? Or Overton? Or what a die state is? It's not just about "oh, I have a cent from every year from 1909-1958! I'm complete!" PPS. When Louis Eliasberg began his collection...in 1925....there were perhaps 1,000 coin collectors in the United States. Coin collecting didn't become popular until the Great Depression. Most people looked at coins as simply money, and even a cent in 1925 still carried a great deal of value. So, no, back *then*, it wasn't a universal hobby. There was no established hobby to speak of, except for the rich...so yes, the analogy with the OA market does have bearing.

Annnnnddd there's that appeal to popularity fallacy again....

She's OK, but you could do better. I'm still trippin' on the Original Comic Art rack at 7-11.... Oh can we bury this already? With the katy perry talk we were halfway to changing the topic to boobs! Whatev. You know an original art rack at 7-11 would have been cool.

She's OK, but you could do better. I'm still trippin' on the Original Comic Art rack at 7-11....

You don't know what you're talking about when speaking of the coin hobby. There is just as much nostalgia in coins as there is in comics. It "makes little sense" to you because, again, you don't know what you're talking about. To call coins a "status" hobby is absurd; yes, at the upper echelons, it is. But millions upon millions of people started out by carefully saving their brand new cents, nickels, and dimes, often in cheap cardboard folders. It was, in fact, the national hobby of the Great Depression, because it was so cheap. People could afford to put old Indian head cents in their boards that they remember from "when they were kids" and show THEIR kids what money used to look like. Coin collecting is a universal hobby. Coins are even more universal than comics, because EVERYONE used (and uses) coins. ORIGINAL COMIC ART, on the other hand, is EXCLUSIVELY a "status hobby", available only to those with access and money. Unless, of course, there was an original art rack at the local 7-11, where kids could take their nickels and dimes and buy. ...was there an original art rack, and I just missed it? Now THAT would have been cool.

I'm fairly certain it is, too. Oh yeah? What have you got, sonny boy? Well, since you asked.... *I'M* Tom Brulato.

I'm fairly certain it is, too.

It's well known in Detroit circles that eminem collects comics. He used to buy regularly from local dealers. I wouldn't call him super savvy like someone who lives on this chat forum but he likes his comics. With regards to those who think that people who become rich and famous don't get into the various aspects of the comics industry unless they were already lifelong fans before: The single greatest coin collection of all time was put together by a man who wasn't famous, but was certainly rich, and he began this pursuit when he was 29. His name was Louis Eliasberg. A passion from childhood certainly helps, but isn't necessary. I'm not sure why anyone thinks that Marshall Mathers....Eminem to the rest of the world...needs to build up confidence and courage. Eminem....? The man has a net worth between $115-$160 million. If Wolverine was that important to him...and he's 41, so he's the perfect age...would it really matter what his "connections" were? He already has an entire music industry at his beck and call, as well as many connections in Hollywood. His people need only place a phone call, and the information he wanted would be his within hours, if not minutes. Rich and famous people make "big purchases" (and "big" is entirely relative) all the time in markets they know little about. There may BE virtually zero chance the piece is headed to Detroit any time soon, but the reasons why would not be the ones some state. It would only be because of lack of interest, because all the resources are already in place. I don't see how this differs significantly from what Gene was saying. What you call "interest", he framed as a certain "psychosis" or requisite passion. . The reasons given were "lack of a lifelong passion, lack of knowledge about the market, lack of courage, lack of confidence, lack of connections, lack of time, lack of resources." Whatever Marshall Mathers lacks in knowledge, can easily be made up for, and a "lifelong passion" is hardly necessary to have interest. He already has all the rest. Rich people make "big" (the term being relative) purchases in markets they know nothing about all the time. It only takes interest...even passing interest for some. Some people can spend a million dollars like I spend $5. Those reasons he gave were to explain why some very wealthy and well-known people don't make a splash in collectibles markets as often as one might think they would, or as often as their wealth would allow. And he's basing that assertion, as it pertains specifically to original comic art, to the fact that, according to him, nearly all "big wave" sales can be attributed to a very small group of people, and that few major pieces sell and disappear without a trace. None of that is inconsistent with what you're saying. His point is that it's unlikely some Marshal Mathers-type character will sweep in with his giant checkbook to set a record on this piece. You got caught up on an incorrect generalization he made about coin collectors and lost track of the main point. The coin bit was just an analogy as part of the larger discussion. Nothing's been lost track of, and no one's been caught up in this small point. No one disagrees that it's unlikely that some Marshall Mathers-type character will swoop in. It's the reason(s) why that won't happen that is/are under dispute.

Yes. In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit. I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that. Of course, it's an extremely remote possibility.

It's well known in Detroit circles that eminem collects comics. He used to buy regularly from local dealers. I wouldn't call him super savvy like someone who lives on this chat forum but he likes his comics. With regards to those who think that people who become rich and famous don't get into the various aspects of the comics industry unless they were already lifelong fans before: The single greatest coin collection of all time was put together by a man who wasn't famous, but was certainly rich, and he began this pursuit when he was 29. His name was Louis Eliasberg. A passion from childhood certainly helps, but isn't necessary. I'm not sure why anyone thinks that Marshall Mathers....Eminem to the rest of the world...needs to build up confidence and courage. Eminem....? The man has a net worth between $115-$160 million. If Wolverine was that important to him...and he's 41, so he's the perfect age...would it really matter what his "connections" were? He already has an entire music industry at his beck and call, as well as many connections in Hollywood. His people need only place a phone call, and the information he wanted would be his within hours, if not minutes. Rich and famous people make "big purchases" (and "big" is entirely relative) all the time in markets they know little about. There may BE virtually zero chance the piece is headed to Detroit any time soon, but the reasons why would not be the ones some state. It would only be because of lack of interest, because all the resources are already in place. I don't see how this differs significantly from what Gene was saying. What you call "interest", he framed as a certain "psychosis" or requisite passion. . The reasons given were "lack of a lifelong passion, lack of knowledge about the market, lack of courage, lack of confidence, lack of connections, lack of time, lack of resources." Whatever Marshall Mathers lacks in knowledge, can easily be made up for, and a "lifelong passion" is hardly necessary to have interest. He already has all the rest. Rich people make "big" (the term being relative) purchases in markets they know nothing about all the time. It only takes interest...even passing interest for some. Some people can spend a million dollars like I spend $5.

Says the guy who tries to use a coin example to disprove the assertion that "people who become rich and famous don't get into the various aspects of the comics industry unless they were already lifelong fans before." Keep up the good work, Socrates! You have no idea what you're talking about. Why anyone takes you seriously is beyond me. "People don't get nostalgic over coins." That's one of the more uneducated blanket statements I have ever seen on this board.

Coins <> Comics. When you're rich, certain hobbies find you (like coins and fine art), as opposed to you finding them. People don't get nostalgic over coins. This analogy makes zero sense. Wow.

Exactly. People think that when celebrities get involved, they're all going to want the best of the best, money is no object and trophy items are preferred. While there is always the exception(s) that prove the rule, generally speaking, it takes a really deep clinical psychosis to be obsessed with the difference between a 9.2 and a 9.4 or with CGC labels at all. The overwhelming majority of comic fans out there just want a copy that looks nice, doesn't cost too much and that they can read. I thought we were talking about OA and that comic rules didn't apply to OA... My company has some popular musical artists as clients and from what I've seen they have no trouble at all away tons of money on trivial things. Just like we were talking about with fine art; it's a status symbol to have the expensive pieces. So I really don't see the stretch here that a celebrity with a ton of money and who is into comics puts down on this piece. Exactly. There are simply some things that transcend logic, reason, trends, past history, "the usual suspects", and any other factors that would normally be figured in. This is one of those pieces.

It's well known in Detroit circles that eminem collects comics. He used to buy regularly from local dealers. I wouldn't call him super savvy like someone who lives on this chat forum but he likes his comics. With regards to those who think that people who become rich and famous don't get into the various aspects of the comics industry unless they were already lifelong fans before: The single greatest coin collection of all time was put together by a man who wasn't famous, but was certainly rich, and he began this pursuit when he was 29. His name was Louis Eliasberg. A passion from childhood certainly helps, but isn't necessary. I'm not sure why anyone thinks that Marshall Mathers....Eminem to the rest of the world...needs to build up confidence and courage. Eminem....? The man has a net worth between $115-$160 million. If Wolverine was that important to him...and he's 41, so he's the perfect age...would it really matter what his "connections" were? He already has an entire music industry at his beck and call, as well as many connections in Hollywood. His people need only place a phone call, and the information he wanted would be his within hours, if not minutes. Rich and famous people make "big purchases" (and "big" is entirely relative) all the time in markets they know little about. There may BE virtually zero chance the piece is headed to Detroit any time soon, but the reasons why would not be the ones some state. It would only be because of lack of interest, because all the resources are already in place.

That's absurd. Do you even remember why pristine comics commanded higher prices to begin with? Do you remember the 'awe' of finding old comics that had been PRESERVED that way? State of Preservation. Remember that? You're above statement is complete asshattery. Mission accomplished. It's nice to see Beyonder on the receiving end for a change. He's such a master baiter himself....

My rebukes are like Band-Aids: gentle, and only a little sting.

I run a pressing business due to what I discovered here. Do you disclose to your ebay audience that a book has been pressed? I tried, but all I got were endless "what does it mean, the book is "pressed""? When I explained it to them, it was like trying to explain Mars to 6th century Frenchmen. But I have no problem disclosing it to anyone who wants to know. Since I've advertised here that I do it, and have stated that all my slabbed books were pressed by me, it's not really a problem. I didn't know this when I bought those slabs from you PM forthcoming. Those were not books I slabbed, nor were they slabbed for a client. Full disclosure: I bought them off eBay from a client who presses, so they are probably pressed...but I cannot, myself, say for sure. They went from client --> ebay ---> me ---> you.