Stefan_W

Yup, this will be the immediate impact of the scam being brought to light. I suspect there will be lower than normal returns at auctions early in the new year for book like Hulk 181 (9.0-ish), 9.8 copies of ASM 300, etc etc etc. A Hulk 181 hit CL marketplace yesterday and has no offers so far. That may not mean anything since it is early and the book was listed too high, but the fact there have not been any offers at all yet (even bad ones) caught my attention. Getting deals is sometimes proportional to willingness to take risks, so people who are willing to roll the dice may end up doing very well .... unless they do really badly in the end when everything shakes out.

We can chip in on the retainer then take the envelop used to get it to you and swap out the promised 15k for $150. And just like that we are back on topic.

This seems like a very bad idea.

For me it roughly breaks down this way: For Silver Age keys I go for about 6 or above, although there are nice 5.0 copies I will gladly take For Silver Age non-keys I go for 9.0 and above For Bronze Age keys I go 9.4 and above For moderns it is typically 9.8 or bust unless it is a really valuable book that is unaffordable in that grade.

A thread lock could be a self-fulfilling prophecy if this derails into people talking about thread locks and such rather than the actual topic. Once people stop finding new things to say about the actual scam that is being discussed, and once the discussion is taken over by people who dislike CGC to begin with essentially saying they dont like CGC again and again (albeit in different forms), then the thread no longer has value. It can swirl the drain for a while after that, I suppose, but seeing anything nefarious in locking a thread once there is no longer any value in it would be a stretch. Things are useful until they are not.

Not a 9.9 but still really awesome. Congrats!

Agreed, sounds like fun and we should definitely do that if we are ever in the same place in the future

I agree with almost everything you say here and really appreciate the work you have put into exposing scams like this one. Coming at this as someone who was around before CGC I do have a mild quibble with the bolded part - shady dealers were a VERY serious problem prior to professional grading and I can't get behind the statement that grading has made it worse. It has changed it a bit for sure as some adapted to include graded comics into their scams, but I suspect the bulk of the shadiest dealers out there have stuck with doing their thing with raw books since that remains the easiest way to con people out of cash. Sorry to focus on such a small part of what you said. The rest of it is Truth in my opinion.

I think it is just how the You Tube algorithms work. The original videos breaking the story did well. Once that passed, ones from the original folks following up are doing well along with those that have fancier titles intended to hype people into clicking. For perspective, I put out a video yesterday that just added a couple of things based on my experiences with cracking and re-subbing books and that did about the same as any other video I put out (i.e., watched by a few dozen of my friends). You Tube is not going to send that type of thing into people's searches. The other factor is videos on this topic are outdated really fast. People are starting to go for the most recent update with the flashiest title.

Interesting question. If I had to guess it would be simply because that sort of thing was never tracked. Thousands of people submit many thousands of comics per year and each submission is basically like a grain of sand on a beach. Unless they specifically track this sort of things (which may happen in the future) they may simply not have looked at that type of pattern. Having said this, they will be perfectly able to look back through the records and find every slab # associated with this person's submissions including re-holders. The question I have is what CGC will land on in terms of a way forward, which is probably linked with what types of things insurance will cover. Best case scenario is a listing of slab numbers and a free recall where those books are re-graded, re-slabbed, and sent back to the current owner with restitution if the book was notwhat is said on the case (lower grade, missing something, etc). I doubt the resolution will be that extensive though since that can run into astronomical costs. We will just have to see how everything shakes out.

Signature series books are commonly counted separately.

Cool. This is a discussion board and everyone can freely exercise their right to express an opinion that is completely wrong.

This is an important point to remember for those wondering why CGC has not come out with a statement yet. Fact finding comes first so the statement is informed, legal comes next so you know what you can say, and an official statement may follow after all of that.

Mentioned this before, but not all books that are originally graded as 9.8 come back as 9.8 during a resub. There are wrinkles to this process.

I don't think there will be much more movement before the holidays. I hope everyone at CGC takes a restful break and is able to spend time with those they love. Happy holidays and thank you for all of your hard work!

Here is the thing though - when someone uses a calmer and non-click baity approach the video may not get any traction at all. This is just how the social media game is right now. Spectacularity in presentation is rewarded.

It does shed some light into what would happen if every reholder was re-graded though. There is no person signing it, but if books have to be removed from the inner sleeves to be accurately regraded and checking for missing things like the MVS there is a chance of damaging the book during that process. I am guessing that is why reholders do not go through that type of process right now, which is what the scam artist was exploiting.

I have not had this happen personally but have heard people complaining about this happening when sending in books for signings. My personal experience is limited though so I cant say this is a trend or pattern.

I am guessing that the scam started way back with the older blue thin cases that were shockingly easy to open. When cases evolved the scammer updated the process to work with the new ones.

Yeah. That is how the You Tube game works in general. When you make a video with a title that catches people (e.g., "Huge Scam Exposed!") it draws in views and helps a channel succeed. An even approach used by Dave and some others is more of a slow burn that a community appreciates but is not rewarded as much by You Tube's algorithms.

I am sure it happens with them too. When I do crack and resubs I use a can opener to open up slabs from the other guys, and a lot of times their cases open up without damaging them much (unlike CGC cases). I suspect it would be easier although as you point out it is likely to be less lucrative. Having to wait a year or more for the swapped out slab to come back is probably the biggest deterrent from that end of the market.

It goes beyond this. If CGC is re-grading all of the reholders it would involve opening up the inner sleeve, which takes time, and having graders assigned to those books. This would increase the wait times for regular grading and increase the cost of reholdering.

My best guess is we will get a public statement once a solution and way forward is found. At least that is how I would handle it if I was running the show. Until then I am sure it is like a hornet's nest in those offices as people do their best to figure out what happened and how. Putting on the "if I was running the show" boots again, I would begin with checking the records to see if there was repetition in who was doing the re-slab if only to rule out internal stuff, and then go outwards from there.

Why? It is fraud which is a criminal offence.

They can fix the issue by putting the label in the same inner sheath as the comic like you see in some designs. The trouble is that this will not work with their current outer slab design so they would have re-work it all.