JJ-4

On 3/7/2022 at 7:57 PM, 1950's war comics said:

here is some drek to satisfy you !!

Clean photo, nice background, crisp (newish) bag and board, but I wonder, what are those guys looking at?  

On 3/7/2022 at 7:52 PM, kav said:

@Comics4All
Sentince?

that's what she said . . .

Asking for a friend.

Is there a set amount of time we have until we need to talk about comics or can this thread just keeping going with gif's and such?

On 3/7/2022 at 7:09 PM, kav said:

Nose ring is cool.

On 3/7/2022 at 7:09 PM, kav said:

Oh No!!!!! 

On 3/7/2022 at 7:03 PM, MattTheDuck said:

One of my favorite kinds of people - uses the freedom of the ladder capitalism provides, then wants to pull it up after him once he's at the top.

Or he's a trust fund kid.  Same result.

On 3/7/2022 at 4:19 PM, FoggyNelson said:

Plus cost me $4 in gas just to go to the store an back☹️☹️😳🚗🚗

It's not going to get any cheaper in the short term either.

On 3/7/2022 at 3:19 PM, DR.X said:

I've said this before. There is no excuse for this kind of garbage. None. Whoever is responsible for letting this stuff out should be booted right out the door.

100%

On 3/6/2022 at 6:34 PM, Spiderphill said:

Pressing status unknown purchased as is. A 9.0 just went 3k on clink and this copy blows it out of the water. 2200$ shipped US 

 

 

Nice book!

On 3/6/2022 at 7:01 AM, EastEnd1 said:

It's pretty obvious that CGC's price point is too low for today's market environment... if I was in charge, I'd be raising prices until some sort of equilibrium is reached... it's a business after all (hopefully they didn't hear me just say that !).  And folks, I think you should expect to see that, complaints or no complaints.  Absent that, I really do think they should consider a six month moratorium on modern submissions under $400.  It's the area that gets the most submissions (by far, apparently) and has the lowest price point per item... that's an inefficient business model that is actually costing them money.  I used to submit books worth over $200.  Now, due to the crazy delays at the Economy and Standard levels, I only submit books worth over $1000.  Those previously graded books between $200-1000 now go in my eBay store raw, and guess what... they're the more high demand books, and generally speaking sell fine!  I suppose my purchasers may be submitting some of my books anyway, but one thing I know for sure is that CGC is LOSING submissions from ME at the $35-80 price points.  And I'm sure I'm not the only one that is deferring higher end business with them.  Seems to me CGC should really think about taking a short break from grading books at a $24 price point, and committing those resources to getting the more profitable submission levels back on track.  Would seem to just make business sense .

If they double their costs they may increase profits in the short term.  But graded comics are by no means a necessity.  The higher price point will drive some customers to spend their money on something else (food, drink, entertainment, more raw comics perhaps?).  But the real danger will be in off the reaming paying clients, they may pay the higher costs but submit less volume and CGC will have really opened the doors to new competition since they've already make a business case that their are real profits to be made at the current price structure.  How much business will they forfeit when what's left of their customers will just jump ship as soon as they perceived a way to cut ties with a company that screwed them over with long TAT's and ever increasing rate structure just because they could.  History is littered with companies that failed like this.

On 3/6/2022 at 7:01 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Taking a year to render a service that can literally be turned in a day is not a sustainable business plan.  To put it in perspective, that's roughly 1/80th of the average persons lifespan.  And while I understand that CGC has essentially monopolistic power, the dustbin of capitalist history is littered with one-time monopolies that failed to address market issues.

I agree with you up to here 100%

On 3/5/2022 at 1:47 PM, Popeyeak49 said:

I understand the OCD part. A few years back I went on an extreme labeling journey after switching everything to mylar. 

Love the clean look, fantastic!

On 3/4/2022 at 11:59 AM, lostboys said:

But hey, we cant expect CGC to simply lose money... so the rest of us will have to make up the lost revenue by paying double.

Do you think they were bought out because they are losing money? They just raised their rates and are swimming in submissions.

The question is do they A) screw the customer over for even bigger short term profits (by keeping things the same) or B) hire a few more people and fix all the QC problems.  The second option will change their short term profitability (more or less profit, I'm not convinced they would make less with all the additional volume), but with B) they would make EVERYONE happier with better TATs which is the key to the long game (happy customers are repeat customers and this will help them if there is ever serious competition).

On 3/3/2022 at 1:57 PM, zzutak said:

Logically speaking, there is a third option: books are picking up new blemishes somewhere at or between the parcel receiving/opening stage and condition grading stage. 

Great observation, and it's probably more likely to happen if the TAT are long and they have books stacked everywhere as they continue to fall farther behind.

On 3/2/2022 at 11:00 PM, William-James88 said:

If stamps are not that different from cards, in terms of the actual product (flat, 2-D collectible) and both have certification options, then doesn't the fact that one market is thriving while the other isn't indicate that it can't be the certification aspect that makes a hobby soar? 

All I mean is that certification and interest in certification comes about as a result of a hot market, it doesn't create the initial heat nor can it keep that heat going if there is no interest in what is being graded. And stamps are a great example of that. I wonder if what I am saying sounds as logical to others as it does to me.

Yes, makes sense and I agree.  I would add that just because a market is hot there is no guarantee that it will remain that way as you need to add as many interested people to the market as you lose over time and that doesn't always happen.

On 3/2/2022 at 11:00 PM, William-James88 said:

I will say this though, Stamps, along with coins and cards, had/have way more going for them as a collectible than comics did, especially when we bring in the idea of certification. You still get to see the entire product when graded, the grading is more objective since there are less aspects to grade, less parts involved. The grade given is easier to retain. Transactional costs are much lower since shipping is cheaper and there is less of a risk of damage during shipping (all that leading to less returns). Plus they take much less space, where that factor causes 0 hindrance on one's collection goals. They also have an underlying value but it's usually insignificant (unlike coins made of precious metals). There is no point being made here, just ramblings and observations. It's more telling of how great the momentum on our dear hobby is since it is thriving while it has a lot more issues with its grading process, maintenance of grade, or even assurance of grade (like buying a blue label slab to later realize it's missing a page afteral) and higher transaction cost. And it also shows that an ideal collectible that had everything going for it could still crash.

Great observations.

On 3/2/2022 at 12:11 PM, Poekaymon said:

I used to strictly do the thin BCW poly bags.  And I have more than a little OCD, so when I would buy something and it came in a Mylar, I'd actually replace it with a poly. But even after only a few years, I noticed that many of the bags were starting to get ripples and waves, especially in the front.  Also, the books would slide around in the bags, so sometimes they would be in the middle, but more often they would be shifted to one side or the other.  The bags being so thin and weak also meant that any curvature of the backing board (super common at least with BCW) was perfectly reproduced.  And in the drawer, they'd always slide from side to side and I'd constantly have to shift them around.  So last month I got a bunch of Mylars and just redid everything.  

Before

After

 

The rigidity of the Mylars not only keeps them in place in the box/drawer, but it also keeps the books mostly in the middle of the bag, so the books don't shift around in the bag, and the bags/boards don't shift around in the drawer.  And each book looks better too--even the cheapos.  Downside is they take up more space, but I don't have that many to begin with so it's okay for me. 

 I guess if you're just putting a long box in storage and need to fit as much as possible in there, and aren't always taking them out, the thin ones are fine.  But for frequent use, and especially in a drawer like mine, Mylars are much better.

Looks fantastic! 

On 3/1/2022 at 12:08 PM, buttock said:

Better than Bill Cosby. 

Haha!

I also find it interesting that CGC is hiring and has 14 open positions in the Grading Department. 

Only 1 Comic grader needed (Vintage Comic Grader), apparently the TAT's for all the modern submissions are right where CGC wants them!    

On 3/1/2022 at 8:36 AM, William-James88 said:

That's a part people here don't seem to get. Liking the characters does not automatically mean an interest in collecting comics. Lots of people love TinTin and yet you can still get the first edition of his magazine releases for $40 or less. Also, not all comics are equal. @seanfingh brought up a really good point of the last generation but looked at comics as a whole. There may be some comics that are in their last generation and we don't know it. Will the next generation pick up the mantle on pre code horror? Those prices are ridiculously inflated right now, do we have enough people interested to keep those numbers afloat in 30 years time? Same question for Fiction House books. Someone mentioned comics being IP and full of known characters, and those types of collections do not fit that bill.

"Liking the characters does not automatically mean an interest in collecting comics"   I agree 100%

On 3/1/2022 at 1:31 AM, Poekaymon said:

Old.  But  I have a 4 year old who already loves Spider-Man from cartoons and costumes, so there's hope.  He even used Spider-Man diapers that I did not go out of my way to get.  It is pervasive. 

Agree on the fact that there are tons of super hero fans in the younger demographics.  I just don't see enough younger people that actually reading and collecting the comics.  They enjoy the movies and all the ancillary products (from t-shirts to video games) but how many new fans will we need to maintain the collectable aspect of this industry as the older generations start to sell off or leave their collections to family when they get that "celestial discharge".  

On 3/1/2022 at 12:13 AM, 500Club said:

My impression has always been that the stamp collecting demographic was much older…?

I would agree.  That said, how much older is the average comics collector compared to the general population?

Interesting post btw.  The comics market could certainly crash, there really isn't anything to stop it from happening and if it starts a rapid decline the heard mentality could compound the adjustment.  On the upside, cheap comics.

On 2/28/2022 at 10:18 PM, William-James88 said:

This absolutely floored me today. I read the boards and I don't think people have a sense of just how bad a hobby could completely crash. Some were there when comics crashed bad in the 90s, but I wonder, is it as bad as how stamps (a once thriving past time) crashed? I had heard that the stamps market had crashed but I didn't get a full idea until today when I bought these below:

For those unaware, these are the first commemorative stamps ever issued by the US. People were collecting stamps before, but stamps were basically just a way to pay for postage but in 1983, almost 130 years ago, they actually made stamps that had that extra collectability factor, leading to Stamp Collecting as we knew it in the 20th century. As a kid, these stamps were unobtainable. No way my dad would have spent $200 on a stamp for his kid 20 years ago. Even now, you can look up price guide values (or catalogue value as it's called) for these and see that they are still valued in the hundreds (link here: http://values.hobbizine.com/stamps/us-1893-columbians.html). You'll notice none of these above are used, even though not all are in perfect shape, they are "mint". If all were used, catalogue value would be around $280 and unused, depending on condition, would be over $1200. So these stamps above would have been "valued" at somewhere in between that.

Here's what I paid for these today:

So literally PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR of what they legit used to sell for back when I collected stamps as a teen. This is a bigger crash than I would have ever predicted and just shows the fragility of worth if there aren't enough people participating in the hobby. 

Don't know if this will ever happen to the comic book market but yeah, major crashes in "asset class" collectibles is a real thing and I just wanted to share an example.

Did the reduction in value happen gradually over the course of many decades or was their a black Monday type selloff in the stamp world?

On 2/14/2022 at 9:43 AM, MAR1979 said:

This may very well be my favorite single comic book issue of this century! Great stand alone story, Killing Joke prequel of sorts, it also includes a rather unexpected and funny Star Wars reference.. I've probably read it a dozen times and I almost never watch or re-read anything.

 

As for non single issues here are some my modern (1994-current)  DC favorites - Please note I have not been a DC reader since Aug 30, 2011.

JSA Darkness Falls

Stars and STRIPE 1-14 - Wish the series had lasted longer as the fun aspect of the Character and tribute to his sister has not been captured the same way since. We'll not see its like again as Johns' true hubris eventually took over his writing IMHO

Golden Age - James Robinson series

Spectre - Ostrander/Mandrake - love the entire series.

Martian Manhunter - Ostrander/Mandrake - never liked the Character before this series, since then he's been one of my favorites. #23 with the Spectre is one of my all-time favorite comics and favorite Mandrake Spectre cover image.  Entire series is excellent.

Starman - Many of the story arch's stand up to the test of time. Oddly enough my favorite might be "Infernal Devices"

Birds of Prey - 90's series most of Simone's run is excellent.

Sandman Mystery Theater - the Hourman Arc

Unknown Solider by Garth Ennis. At moments almost truly captures the horrors of war atrocities

Great suggestions and I agree with many of them.

The launch of the New 52 titles while successful perhaps in the short term seemed to be a natural jumping off point for others.  Sad.