LordRahl

You clearly have never worked with the federal government. What you are suggesting would be an absolute train wreck. Your books would be in limbo for years with no compensation. No one is going to do that. CGC would be foolish to try that as they would get skewered by all of the owners of these books.

Problem with this approach is you can kiss your book and money goodbye for at least the next several years if not forever while the FBI figures out IF they want to investigate/prosecute and then for that prosecution to play out. If you have ever dealt with the federal government, you know this is well let's just say... a lengthy process. I don't see too many people signing up for that.

More than likely that is on advice from their lawyers.

That may have been the initial position but I think CL and any other auction house that has access to any of these will see the need for the books to be examined by CGC and reholdered with new cert numbers if proven to be clean. I didn't read all of Josh's posts but I'm honestly surprised he would not do that

Yes, I think anyone that has a book on the list should send it in for review. It would be in that person's best interest no matter what the outcome. I don't think anyone suggested otherwise. I think what some of us are saying is that not EVERY book on that list is likely to be tampered with. Like the SS books I'm guessing are just normal untampered with books. This guy obviously deals in comics. I'm sure he has sold normal books in the past but obviously everything he has sold should now come into question.

I'm assuming any book ever submitted by this guy is on the list. Doesn't mean anything nefarious was going on with that specific book all the way back then.

You lost me here

I'm pretty sure you are correct that he had a thread like that but I also think it was way back when. 1st gen slabs, pretty much common knowledge those are easy to crack.

Dupecake being involved wouldn't surprise me. I'm pretty sure he sold out of a Kew Gardens address back in the day and I know one of his shills at one point had an Arizona address. Which are 2 of the current addresses in question. And we know he used shills to sell his material as well.

Couple million $$$

That's what I was getting at. He isn't doing this with 1 copy of ASM 300 when there are 70+ copies on that list. But I guess he likely is sitting on several 9.8 copies that he keeps resubbing. Which also means the census is even more wildly inaccurate than I previously thought, at least for ASM 300 and 194. There are dozens of ghost 9.8s just from this one guy not to mention everyone else that CPR's without turning in the label.

Not right now. Were you around a couple of years ago when TAT's were ridiculous. Reholders were not immune, they were taking forever. And I guarantee you that someone that goes to this length to scam people out of money isn't paying walk-through prices on ASM 300's. That would be for straight submissions. There is no walk-through for reholders.

I mean I don't know. Maybe he IS sitting on a bunch of 9.8s. But take ASM 300 for example. There are like 70 copies in that list. In your scenario he is doing this one by one. Send 1 in, wait. Get it back, switch. Send it in, wait. Versus, he buys 10 9.8's. Resub's them all with switched books. He now has 10 new 9.8s that are fake. Resubs those fake 9.8's for more fake 9.8s. All he needs is the labels at this point. He now can sell all of the fake 9.8s and still be subbing like 3-4 every few months for more fake 9.8s. But the original 10 9.8s (or 5 or however many he bought) still exist. Why would he sit on those?

What is he going to do with the actual 9.8? He has to have a 9.8 label right. Which means he needs a legit 9.8. Once he switches them he now has a raw 9.8. He isn't just sitting on those. He is reselling them when he resubs them and they come back 9.8 again.

There is only 1. It might have just been a legit book. There will be some legit books amongst all that scamminess

you think this guy was subbing ASM 300's and 194's under walk-through? That is truly hilarious.

Too many examples of the same book and given TAT's it wouldn't be practical to do this. Not that long ago, TAT's were months long. Imagine having to wait 6 months for your 1 copy of a 9.8 to pull the scam again.

100% correct. This guy isn't sitting on dozens of raw 9.8s just because. He has sold them as brand new 9.8s so some of those books will be the actual grade stated.

No, of course they won't buy it back if the grade didn't drop. If you bought a 9.8 and it's still a 9.8... well you bought a 9.8, the end. But let's say you bought a 9.8 and it was a 9.4 switcheroo and CGC says the book is now a 9.4. You are saying that CGC won't buy the "9.8" which is really a 9.4. How do you know that?

You are stating this as fact and not conjecture so the obvious question is... how do you know this?

You won't be the only one in this boat. It's going to depend on the grade bump and if things were purchased pre-pandemic.

Free book? Where did you read that? You won't get the book, just what you paid for it. CGC gets the book. Same thing they did with the Ewert books. If they paid you for it, CGC got the book. You don't get to keep the book AND also get paid for it.

I'm not a lawyer but I work with them a lot. They are a risk averse bunch. I will bet that they will advise CGC to just pay out the purchase cost so as to avoid any chance at a lawsuit. Most likely CGC will offer one of two things. A) they buy the book from you outright at your cost and now CGC owns the book or B) they will regrade it and you can keep it with CGC making up the difference in price between bought at grade and current grade. CGC's preference would obviously be the latter as they don't want to own these books and it leaves more room for negotiation but if they are just buying the book from you outright, I think it will be at cost (assuming you can prove your cost).

At this point why would you try to offload when you'd likely get busted? CGC is going to buy it back, presuming at the price paid for the book. In fact people that bought during the pandemic bonanza are probably ecstatic that this guy scammed them because they just made their money back and most of the books on that list are going for considerably less now than they were during the pandemic craziness.

There are 57 9.8 ASM 194 in that list. That is like 11% of the total population of 9.8 copies.