LordRahl

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree.

 

I'm trying to understand why consumers would continue to submit their books to CGC if CGC can't consistently detect trimming.

 

If CGC = raw in regard to micro-trimming, then wouldn't consumers rather pay 25K for a NM FF 1 than 125K?

 

Because even if they can't detect it all the time, they can detect it a lot more consistently than 99.9% of the collecting community.

 

99.9%?

 

C'mon now. Please don't just make mess up.

 

I'm really not making up that number. How many people in this hobby do you think can reliably tell if a book was micro-trimmed? Honest question. Give me your opinion.

 

First I'd have to know how many people are in this hobby.....

Well that's kind of where I'm going with this. I think the number of people that can accurately detect it is a list we the board members can probably come up with. It will number less than 100 people, of that I'm sure. It would need to be either resto people like Matt, Trace Heft, Susan Ciccone etc. or long time dealers who deal in Silver and Gold predominantly that have seen literally tens of thousands of books and would know what to look for (Storms, Yee etc).

There are how many comic collectors do you think? 400-500K? 1M? Do that math.

Not to mention that micro-trimming is only one of a myriad of things that could be done to a book. Most of those other things are caught much more reliably.

 

Like pressing?

I haven't made up my mind one way or another as to whether I consider it resto or not (it just doesn't matter that much to me), but let's not get down that rat hole.

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree.

 

I'm trying to understand why consumers would continue to submit their books to CGC if CGC can't consistently detect trimming.

 

If CGC = raw in regard to micro-trimming, then wouldn't consumers rather pay 25K for a NM FF 1 than 125K?

 

Because even if they can't detect it all the time, they can detect it a lot more consistently than 99.9% of the collecting community.

 

99.9%?

 

C'mon now. Please don't just make mess up.

I'm really not making up that number. How many people in this hobby do you think can reliably tell if a book was micro-trimmed? Honest question. Give me your opinion.

Not to mention that micro-trimming is only one of a myriad of things that could be done to a book. Most of those other things are caught much more reliably.

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree.

 

I'm trying to understand why consumers would continue to submit their books to CGC if CGC can't consistently detect trimming.

 

If CGC = raw in regard to micro-trimming, then wouldn't consumers rather pay 25K for a NM FF 1 than 125K?

Because even if they can't detect it all the time, they can detect it a lot more consistently than 99.9% of the collecting community.

I wouldn't want a trimmed book - micro or not.

 

Why not?

 

Ditto that.

 

I don't understand how trimming is considered resto when you're taking away and not adding to. It should be noted but more as a defect than a resto similar to a taped spine.

 

I'd be happy to have any resto 60's Marvel key in my collection

While I agree to some extent, trimming is destruction, it is being done with the express purpose of improving the appearance of a book which is what a lot (if not most) resto is done for. Therefore trimming got lumped in with resto. It should be considered a defect and downgraded for but the practice of considering it resto is so established that it's probably a bit late in the game now to be changing it.

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

I keep reading that grading is subjective, grading is subjective, grading is subjective, okay, no argument grading is subjective. But in this case, it's one book, with one major flaw. Now, either CGC has a standard for that flaw or they don't. Different graders gave this flaw a different grade. Doesn't sound like a standard. No standards scares me.

Go ahead guys, ignore my comment yet again. I can't even get a response from Kav on this ?!?

 

This.

 

+1

 

+1 from me. This is the root of the issue. This issue flopped back and forth between blue and purple so much that any claim to having set standards in detection is absolutely unbelievable. How can one trust any universal grade that isn't a modern book now?

 

+1

 

Blue. Purple. Blue. Purple.

 

That's going to be my new screen name...

 

I think CGC is going dark on this and will wait for it to go away. And by the vigorous defenders of CGCs grading who see this as an isolated, one-in-a-million-what's-the-big-deal kind of thing...it's obvious there are dealers who don't want change. They profit from playing the resub game.

For them, CGC is purr-fect-o.

 

Most people buy the number (eBay), while they buy the book, resub, and voila, the number changes.

 

That statement is funny to me as IMO most of the people playing that game aren't dealers. They're the average Joe collector like Dan (the OP). I know anti-CGC people keep harping about how dealers profit so much from CGC etc and miss the fact that it's really the average guy that profits the most from CGC.

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

 

Right thing to do. Thanks for the update.

 

+1 I agree. CGC is doing the right thing. I am perfectly satisfied with this answer. However, regarding the current owner/submitter of this book, what the heck were you thinking ? I can't understand why you would resub this book in the first place and, miracle of miracles, you get a Blue Label and immediately tell Dan about it. What did you expect ? Also, it seems awfully cowardly to do your talking through Dan and not come on here to discuss. It sure makes it appear as if you are hiding something.

 

No no didn't you read Dan's transmission of his statement, this book was meant for his permanent collection to never ever leave again. That's why he immediately paid a couple hundred bucks for a walk-through submission as soon as he bought the book. Uh huh

 

why "remove it from the market"? because it's been blue, purple, then blue again? taking it away won't change the fact that resto detection is basically a coinflip now.

I doubt it's a "coin flip" but it's no secret that it's never been a 100% certainty. I was much more concerned that they didn't catch color touch on the other book than that they missed trimming on the JIM. Theoretically, CT should be a lot easier to ID.

No no didn't you read Dan's transmission of his statement, this book was meant for his permanent collection to never ever leave again. That's why he immediately paid a couple hundred bucks for a walk-through submission as soon as he bought the book. Uh huh

 

Dan also said the buyer didnt believe that it was trimmed (as he didnt), knew that it had previously been blue, so subbed it again.

 

Many people would do the same. And who can blame the buyer for not appearing, when CGC has an army of mindless zealots ready to attack should he appear.

Much as CGC has an army of mindless pitchfork wielding critics who can't see the forest for the trees?

See what I did there?

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

 

Right thing to do. Thanks for the update.

 

+1 I agree. CGC is doing the right thing. I am perfectly satisfied with this answer. However, regarding the current owner/submitter of this book, what the heck were you thinking ? I can't understand why you would resub this book in the first place and, miracle of miracles, you get a Blue Label and immediately tell Dan about it. What did you expect ? Also, it seems awfully cowardly to do your talking through Dan and not come on here to discuss. It sure makes it appear as if you are hiding something.

 

No no didn't you read Dan's transmission of his statement, this book was meant for his permanent collection to never ever leave again. That's why he immediately paid a couple hundred bucks for a walk-through submission as soon as he bought the book. Uh huh

 

I knew I should have saved my 20,000 th post for a better moment. I have to agree here that resubbing immediately makes no sense whatsoever.....

You are right, it makes no sense in the context of "this is for my personal permanent collection".

What does it matter what the submitter was thinking by resumitting. What matters is that it slipped through cgc's restoration detection. The question is how many thousands of these blue purples are circulating in the hands of unsuspecting collectors. I would like cgc to address that problem. How will cgc regain the confidence of collectors if you can't be sure what you're buying.

The poor unsuspecting collectors. It's a good thing that people didn't trim and restore books before the CGC came around or there would have been a lot of poor unsuspecting collectors then too with absolutely no idea that their books were restored and no one they could pay to give them a somewhat expert opinion either.

What does it matter what the submitter was thinking by resumitting. What matters is that it slipped through cgc's restoration detection. The question is how many thousands of these blue purples are circulating in the hands of unsuspecting collectors. I would like cgc to address that problem. How will cgc regain the confidence of collectors if you can't be sure what you're buying.

16,253 to be exact

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

 

Right thing to do. Thanks for the update.

 

+1 I agree. CGC is doing the right thing. I am perfectly satisfied with this answer. However, regarding the current owner/submitter of this book, what the heck were you thinking ? I can't understand why you would resub this book in the first place and, miracle of miracles, you get a Blue Label and immediately tell Dan about it. What did you expect ? Also, it seems awfully cowardly to do your talking through Dan and not come on here to discuss. It sure makes it appear as if you are hiding something.

No no didn't you read Dan's transmission of his statement, this book was meant for his permanent collection to never ever leave again. That's why he immediately paid a couple hundred bucks for a walk-through submission as soon as he bought the book. Uh huh

However, detecting whether or not it is restored is not something that is able to be done with 100% certainty. Especially trimming.

Has anyone ever claimed they can detect trimming with 100% accuracy?

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure if You gave me a stereomicroscope and some trimmed and untrimmed books and a few hours I would have a 100% error-free trimming detection rate.....

 

 

Right, how could I have missed that. On a side note, I have this really great bridge for sale. You interested?

Better tell the FBI that microscopic paper analysis is pointless.

 

I can't believe I'm actually going to take the time to do this

 

Books (all books) get trimmed at the printer. Yes, every Blue label comic in existance is trimmed. Most were trimmed a long time ago. Let's take a mid 70's book for instance. Trimmed at the printer in 1974. Purchased by some collector who reads it a couple times and puts it away. Bought by a dealer in 1981. Dealer decides he can get more money for it if he trims off that unsightly top edge that got roughed up some by the kid. Let's assume it was a well done trim job. You think a stereomicroscope is going to be able to help you tell the difference between the trim that happened in 1974 and the one that happened in 1981? With 30+ years of paper aging that have happened in between? Really?

Yes because paper fibers yellow from the outside in. Therefore newer trimmed paper will have fiber ends that are lighter than untrimmed. Also, over time, the micro fibers get worn. Newly trimmed paper will have a clean cut. If one edge is suspected you could compare yellowing. If all three edges were trimmed and the paper color is different from the cut ends to the nearby fibers, that would be telling. Fiber areas exposed to the air in 1974 will look different than fiber areas exposed in 1981.

 

You are talking a good game but since I don't know you nor your level of expertise in the subject, forgive me if I think you're full of Have you tried this to determine that in fact it is true? Or did you just see it on CSI.

 

Also, if the whole edge were trimmed, it would age at the same rate correct?

I have not done this but I have spent years using a microscope and know the power in determining things. Tiny tool marks invisible to the naked eye can match a tool to something it was used on. The trimmed edge would age at the same rate but the surrounding paper would have had a head start and this could possibly be determined-that a piece of paper was cut years after the rest of the paper had been produced and bound.

Soooo, conjecture on your part. Perhaps somewhat educated conjecture but conjecture all the same.

However, detecting whether or not it is restored is not something that is able to be done with 100% certainty. Especially trimming.

Has anyone ever claimed they can detect trimming with 100% accuracy?

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure if You gave me a stereomicroscope and some trimmed and untrimmed books and a few hours I would have a 100% error-free trimming detection rate.....

 

 

Right, how could I have missed that. On a side note, I have this really great bridge for sale. You interested?

Better tell the FBI that microscopic paper analysis is pointless.

 

I can't believe I'm actually going to take the time to do this

 

Books (all books) get trimmed at the printer. Yes, every Blue label comic in existance is trimmed. Most were trimmed a long time ago. Let's take a mid 70's book for instance. Trimmed at the printer in 1974. Purchased by some collector who reads it a couple times and puts it away. Bought by a dealer in 1981. Dealer decides he can get more money for it if he trims off that unsightly top edge that got roughed up some by the kid. Let's assume it was a well done trim job. You think a stereomicroscope is going to be able to help you tell the difference between the trim that happened in 1974 and the one that happened in 1981? With 30+ years of paper aging that have happened in between? Really?

Yes because paper fibers yellow from the outside in. Therefore newer trimmed paper will have fiber ends that are lighter than untrimmed. Also, over time, the micro fibers get worn. Newly trimmed paper will have a clean cut. If one edge is suspected you could compare yellowing. If all three edges were trimmed and the paper color is different from the cut ends to the nearby fibers, that would be telling. Fiber areas exposed to the air in 1974 will look different than fiber areas exposed in 1981.

You are talking a good game but since I don't know you nor your level of expertise in the subject, forgive me if I think you're full of Have you tried this to determine that in fact it is true? Or did you just see it on CSI.

Also, if the whole edge were trimmed, it would age at the same rate correct?

However, detecting whether or not it is restored is not something that is able to be done with 100% certainty. Especially trimming.

Has anyone ever claimed they can detect trimming with 100% accuracy?

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure if You gave me a stereomicroscope and some trimmed and untrimmed books and a few hours I would have a 100% error-free trimming detection rate.....

 

 

Right, how could I have missed that. On a side note, I have this really great bridge for sale. You interested?

Better tell the FBI that microscopic paper analysis is pointless.

I can't believe I'm actually going to take the time to do this

Books (all books) get trimmed at the printer. Yes, every Blue label comic in existance is trimmed. Most were trimmed a long time ago. Let's take a mid 70's book for instance. Trimmed at the printer in 1974. Purchased by some collector who reads it a couple times and puts it away. Bought by a dealer in 1981. Dealer decides he can get more money for it if he trims off that unsightly top edge that got roughed up some by the kid. Let's assume it was a well done trim job. You think a stereomicroscope is going to be able to help you tell the difference between the trim that happened in 1974 and the one that happened in 1981? With 30+ years of paper aging that have happened in between? Really?

However, detecting whether or not it is restored is not something that is able to be done with 100% certainty. Especially trimming.

Has anyone ever claimed they can detect trimming with 100% accuracy?

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure if You gave me a stereomicroscope and some trimmed and untrimmed books and a few hours I would have a 100% error-free trimming detection rate.....

 

Right, how could I have missed that. On a side note, I have this really great bridge for sale. You interested?

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

 

Common sense? The more one practices something, generally speaking, the better one gets at whatever that is.

 

If you're missing trimming....you have no idea you're missing trimming.

Until it comes to light, like the Ewert books. I can't imagine that didn't teach them something about trimming detection.

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

Common sense? The more one practices something, generally speaking, the better one gets at whatever that is.

The buyer is a boardie. Why is he not on here speaking for himself? What was and was not said between him and CGC would be a lot more credible coming from him then it is coming secondhand from Dan.

Even if it was not trimmed they would look better saying it WAS trimmed, and they missed it. I want to know exactly what characteristics it has that prove a definitive trim.

And if they tell you, that does what exactly? There is no way to verify if what they tell you is right or a bunch of BS.

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

Thanks for the response.

 

Can you tell us how you came to the conclusion it is trimmed this time? Did you get the book back from the buyer and re-inspect it? Or did you just go with what you remembered from the last time you inspected it for Spider-Dan? If so, then why couldn't anyone remember this rare, pricey book just weeks after a bunch of hoopla surrounded it? (Remember, EVERYONE inspected it and determined it was trimmed for Spider-Dan). So how could NO ONE possibly remember this book just several weeks later when it was brought it for a re-sub? Can you tell us who the re-subber was? Can you tell us if the same graders and resto experts looked at it during the walk through? Who was on duty that day?

 

I know it's a lot of questions, but we all have a lot of doubts about CGC right now.

 

EDIT: Also, I hope you (CGC) didn't wait till almost 5pm to post a response, on purpose. It gives one the impression that you did it to avoid responding to any follow up questions because everyone has gone home for the day.

The bolded part may not be accurate. You are making an assumption based on heresay. I didn't make the same assumption. I assumed that he would have had their resto experts look at it for review, not EVERYONE.

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

Thanks for the response.

 

Can you tell us how you came to the conclusion it is trimmed this time? Did you get the book back from the buyer and re-inspect it? Or did you just go with what you remembered from the last time you inspected it for Spider-Dan? If so, then why couldn't anyone remember this rare, pricey book just weeks after a bunch of hoopla surrounded it? (Remember, EVERYONE inspected it and determined it was trimmed for Spider-Dan). So how could NO ONE possibly remember this book just several weeks later when it was brought it for a re-sub? Can you tell us who the re-subber was? Can you tell us if the same graders and resto experts looked at it during the walk through? Who was on duty that day?

 

I know it's a lot of questions, but we all have a lot of doubts about CGC right now.

 

EDIT: Also, I hope you (CGC) didn't wait till almost 5pm to post a response, on purpose. It gives one the impression that you did it to avoid responding to any follow up questions because everyone has gone home for the day.

My guess here is that when Harshen told Dan that everyone with any credibility in the facility said it was trimmed, he was refering to those within the facility that specialize in resto detection, not their normal graders. So he probably showed it to Paul and Matt, since those would be the 2 people best suited to identify resto. Why would he show it to ALL of their graders? Upon resub, if the graders didn't catch any red flags, it was probably not looked at by Matt, Paul or Harshen again. Unless one of them looks at EVERY book, which I don't know if it is the case.