NC101

I'm gonna stay with my version, I like it more

Having never met the brothers grim, whenever they're brought up I always imagine them as twins who both look like this:

On 1/25/2019 at 4:12 PM, vodou said:

It is very much a thing. The artists know, after all it's they that never shipped the art out to the rep to begin with. But if you have a complaint, letting the artist know that you're passing on their work because of foolishness or -better yet- offering to buy direct from them for 20% less than the rep is asking, cutting the rep's middle out, can produce some interesting results!

Interesting good or interesting bad?

These pages are unbelievable...

37 minutes ago, Varanis said:

I think Kirby still has enormous future growth potential from a market perspective. I'm probably one of the youngest collectors on this board and when it comes to pre-modern art, Kirby is one of the only artists I care about. His art is a massive influence on not only modern comics, but the MCU. Thor: Ragnarok was oozing with Kirby inspiration. I expect the movies to continue to latch onto this style as well as they continue with their cosmic storytelling. I've also seen Disney start to promote Kirby as one of the key artistic masterminds behind Marvel and the MCU. If a company like Disney continues to promote something like that, Jack Kirby will easily be a household name before long. All in all, this is probably a pretty terrible take, but I thought I'd share my perspective.

I think that's a good point, maybe Disney legitimizing him further artistically would also translate to helping him be accepted by the mainstream fine art world too.

2 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

"Oh, and sir, about the Stormtrooper armor not actually stopping anything....."

"As long as they can shoot straight, the best defense is a good offense"

On 2/10/2020 at 8:42 PM, alxjhnsn said:

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=9834

You have an amazing collection, I think I'll be drooling the rest of the day

6 hours ago, vodou said:

Another reason newer collectors don't adopt what their older brethren collect is because they just don't trust it, just as many are now questioning that FF #41 page 11 example if not the larger chunk of the elder market it may be representative of. A newer collector, exactly as one or two have made their voices known on the Board recently might just say "pass" and buy fresh art of a table in artist alley or go the commission/sketch route instead. Wouldn't you? That's exactly what I did when I entered the market so many years ago, I saw what the old guys had run up and it didn't seem to compare favorably, on a cost:benefit analysis, to the next two decades following of similar material they hadn't run up...so being that I wanted the most and best art I could get, I went whole hog on those decades instead and left the geezers to their (then) four figure price tags that just yellowed over time but never seemed to revise downward to meet the actual "demand" market

This is exactly how I feel, even if I could afford a beautiful prime Kirby cover at current prices there's absolutely no way I'd spend that much money on one, or really anything above a small fraction of what that work's getting now. And believe me, I love Kirby.

Just picked this up, Silver Surfer Annihilation Scourge #1 p18 by Paul Davidson

5 hours ago, grapeape said:

The winning bid $3,709

And still only $5200 in today dollars

3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

There are ways to enjoy this hobby without worrying about a future bubble—just adjust your field of vision. For example, some people happily collect commissions, art from independents, and Modern Age pieces. I also think parts of the market are not particularly appreciated by collectors. I find myself increasingly drawn to old romance comic pages with outrageously dated dialog. They just make me   grin from the silliness of them (“Oh why can’t Brad see how perfect we would be together? If only I could afford a better dress, like Debbie”). Then, there are all the War comics, which with some exceptions, don’t come with high prices. Just don’t get caught up in this cycle of pricing; it isn’t worth it.

 

Thanks, and I get that, and I'm personally sticking mainly to newer artists whose prices haven't exploded. I really enjoy the searching, it's fun and I feel doubly satisfied when I find someone I think is genuinely amazing who also hasn't gotten expensive. That's really becoming the fun of this hobby for me. I'm not worried for my own sake about a crash, because I don't buy for investment, and I stick to the shallow end of the pool (aside from a couple purchases early on that in retrospect I wish I hadn't made, but live n learn). The idea of a current bubble bothers me because it means inflated pricing and I don't like to pay too much.

Do you have a caf gallery of your romance pages? I'd be interested in seeing them 

3 hours ago, romitaman said:

YES NC101.... this "40 year" bubble you speak of above  will burst at some point..I have no doubt it will one day.

You can blame me if you want, for that happening....i'm a decent part of the market as i probably (and albert) sell more silver and bronze and copper age art than anyone..

 So directly or indirectly i'd be part of whatever happens people decide to sell and unload while other people decide to not buy anymore..

I'd say people's income or lack of income globally in their jobs would be more of a reason people stop buying comic art anymore.

it seems you re giving me very high status in our hobby (which I do appreciate) for you to say i'm responsible in some way for the day our market falters.

I will take that responsibility you want me to take as a badge of honor...as when that day happens i will most assuredly lose more than anyone reading this, for what art i have in my collection.

20 years ago I told a close art friend who has been in the hobby 15 years before I got in,  that 2025 would be when our market starts to go downhill...this was BEFORE the Marvel movies started coming out.....

now I feel it will be closer to around 2040 if and when things start to pan out when guys my age and a little younger start to seriously sell off their collections.....but like any market...stock or whatever.....time will tell.

flippant attitude Mike...LOL

 

It looks to me like a bubble that's been forming since around 2010-2012 or so. I don't blame you alone for that happening, I think you probably share responsibility, particularly because I do think you have high status in this hobby. Flipping contributes to bubbles, especially when it becomes the norm. I phrased what I wrote about shilling as a hypothetical because I don't know the extent to which you use/used shilling, so I don't know the extent of the effect on the market. As far as when the market starts to go downhill, my guess is within the next two years, but that's a guess. If that's the case, I'd say you're a talented prognosticator. In any case, my original intent wasn't so much to assign blame as it was to point out to you a possible reason that you take so much s### in this thread.

1 hour ago, Matches_Malone said:

And the solution is to keep commenting on Burkey's buy low/sell high practice? The man is a dealer. 

If what he did meant so much to you, then don't buy nor deal with him.  Change the channel. 

 

I think the issue is, like I said, those actions don't occur in a vacuum. They affect everybody, not just immediately but in a lasting way as well. It's sort of like saying "I dumped poison in the reservoir, but I only did it in one spot."

2 hours ago, AnkurJ said:

We have all moved on including major auction houses who have looked the other way. The effect this can have on the hobby is significant, and I as well as many others can’t ignore what was done.

I didn't realize he had admitted to it and I didn't want to accuse anyone, but I agree that shilling is harmful. Especially if it's done by someone who deals in large volume, and especially high end work, if someone is flipping a lot of work and shilling to bid up auction prices that can move the needle across the board. Everyone here could be paying inflated prices still today as a result of someone having done/doing that.

16 minutes ago, RBerman said:

My wife and I visited that museum when we were in NYC a few years ago. I have pictures... somewhere.

I'd like to go sometime - it's been absorbed by the Society of Illustrators and they don't always have comic art on exhibit, but I look forward to visiting sometime.

There's also the Museum of Comic and Cartoon Art festival on the west side of NYC April 4-5 - it's not exclusively art but tons of artists go  https://www.societyillustrators.org/mocca-arts-festival

3 minutes ago, skrilla1212 said:

Good topic!

I’ve really been enjoying Farel Dalrymple’s (The Wrenchies) Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/fareldal

The patreon per month is less than the cost of a comic, and he’s doing daily drawings all year you can buy for $20. He throws up other sketchbook type drawings for sale too. I bought this character the other day.

The other one I support is James Stokoe. He posts like once a month just a couple drawings, but if it means more Orc Stain at some point...:)

 

Thanks! I'm not familiar w Farel Dalrymple, I'm gonna go check him out

8 minutes ago, RBerman said:

 

A larger than normal influx of new collectors means a stable, long-term increase in prices. A larger than normal influx of flippers indicates "gold fever." Discerning between the two can be challenging, but "percent resold quickly" seems like as good a metric as any to capture the concerning behavior. And, as you mentioned, the proliferation of shills. Joe Brancatelli described turning down an offer to become a comic book collectibles shill back in a late 1970s column that ran in Vampirella.

 

Woww that's wild, thanks for posting that - a good illustration of the mentality that can poison a fun hobby like collecting. You're right I misspoke, an influx of flippers/speculators not collectors. 

1 hour ago, RBerman said:

Obviously a bubble results when people buy a collectible only to resell, with no intention of owning for its own sake. How much is that happening? If 50% of the art being traded back and forth is just financial speculation (as evidenced by quick resale), then a collapse is certain. If it's only 10%, then the market is healthy and stable. So, what percent of pieces are resold within six months? twelve? twenty four? That's how we gauge whether the increasing prices are really just more (and more well-heeled) collectors entering the fray.

That's a good point, and if that can be measured it would be very interesting to see. There are indicators of a bubble that we can look at for reference - irrational pricing (i.e. Kirby has been fetching high prices for a long time, it makes sense that his work would be priced high because it has a recorded history of steadily increasing price; johnny new kid the hot young talent fetching prices that don't reflect a solid market history doesn't make sense), "gold fever" atmosphere, a large influx of speculators, quick and large increases in price without any accompanying increase in utility, press coverage of suddenly rising prices, an increase in talk about "the next big thing" with accompanying high prices. None of these in and of themselves is definitive, but they're red flags.

I just want to mention that I don't have any wish for there to be a bubble and especially a crash, and my budget isn't big enough for me to seriously benefit from one anyway, but I do think it's prudent to try to be realistic about possible scenarios. And I may very well be wrong, I can't see the future any better than anyone else. My intention wasn't to start a discussion on the possibility of a bubble, just to point out to Romitaman something he may not be seeing about why people react to flipping, and in particular his posts, the way they do.

On 2/11/2020 at 5:42 PM, romitaman said:

Just for the record......

I did NOT buy this Curt Swan Superman splash where Superman is getting punched out by Clark Kent, on EBAY......

I got it from a collector privately at double what it sold for on Ebay...But HEY... Thanks for letting me know where it came from....

AND PLEASE......EVERYONE.... keep checking out my website and find your flip of the day and keep posting it..I love this and its quite informative!

ROMITAMAN (dot com)  

I think one thing people may be reacting to, I know I am, is your apparently flippant attitude (and you may not intend it that way, I just know that that's how it comes across to me). I think you're right that you, along with anybody else, have the right to flip. It's perfectly legal and plenty of people do it. You've also very rightly pointed out that you wouldn't be able to flip without people on the other end who are willing to buy. The thing is, that activity, like all activity, doesn't occur in a vacuum. It does have consequences, much as you may or may not like it to. 

If there is a bubble and it bursts, flipping will have played a significant role in that. While that may be fine and well for those who have been profiting off the bubble all along, it's going to leave a lot of collectors with very devalued collections. I personally don't care if people who create a bubble then lose by it, and I'll be happy to buy work off them at much lower prices if the opportunity arises, but I don't think that that's the majority of collectors (maybe I'm wrong). If there is a bubble, and especially if there is a recession in the next couple of years which it looks more and more as though there might be, then when that bubble bursts I imagine there will be plenty of people who are still paying off work that they suddenly can't afford. I imagine there will be plenty of people who suddenly need to sell work they've bought, losing quite a bit of money on the transaction that they may not be able to afford to lose. And all the other problems that come along with a sudden devaluation of your assets.

Like I said, you've rightly pointed out that in any transaction it takes two to tango. But if there is a crash at some point (which I personally think there will be), you won't be able to rightly claim you don't bear any responsibility for that. Not just from flipping in itself, but also from encouraging a climate that makes it seem harmless. Like it or not, your actions have consequences, which I'm sure you know but it still bears repeating.

All that being said, I don't get the impression that this thread is intended to shame, just to cast humorous glances at what might seem like increasingly ludicrous activity.

I was wondering what Patreons people support - right now I'm following Jeremy Bastian (https://www.patreon.com/JeremyBastian/posts) and Artyom Trakhanov (https://www.patreon.com/ohotnig/posts). I like it because I feel like I'm supporting the artist directly and I see what my contribution is helping them to make.

17 minutes ago, gumbydarnit said:

Here you go, it's pretty nice.

I guess he lucked out in the end

23 hours ago, AndyFish said:

But on the other hand, there are a LOT of guys who just seem to be too big for their own britches, plain social misfits or outright sociopaths.   One of them, who is mentioned in this very thread above, was also someone who's work I really liked.   I ran into him at a show we were both guests at, introduce myself and tell him one of the reasons I'm working full time in comics is because I was inspired by his work.  He looks me up and down and says "Yeah so?   Have you bought anything from my table?" and he walks away.

That's...cruel

On 2/9/2020 at 10:29 AM, Blastaar said:

What was interesting about this situation was the supposed “Big Bad Byrne” heard about this and offered up a commission at no charge.  

Anyone know what the resulting Byrne piece was?

I'm trying to look on the bright side - all this flipping by various parties creates the conditions for a market crash, and that's when I get to swoop in!