babsrocks31

On 3/7/2023 at 11:33 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

The only reason is, I think, that he never had an historic run on a "hot" character or title. I'm not sure if Birds of Prey counts. The closest would be his run on Micronauts, but even then he's somewhat overshadowed by Michael Golden. And that's his early, less mature style. 

I know what you mean. He had sustained runs on a lot of well regarded second tier titles, like Micronauts and Birds Of Prey and many more. But never had a prolonged run on the hot A-list book. He was certainly capable though. I think it was just timing for him.

I don't think there is any one way to collect. Many people here have posted the rules they follow, some governed by their heads and some their hearts. I try to pick and choose things that work for me from the bounty of examples already posted.

Or even the worse, dealers that leave up pages without marking them sold OR unsold.

Latest version with most of the writing handled by Tynion and Ram V. Most of the art by Alvaro Martinez and Amancay Nahuelpan. 

These pages are inks by Raul Fernandez over Alvaro Martinez Blueline pencils.

Just spreading some love about my favorite recent big two title. Best thing DC has done in years.

On 2/19/2023 at 12:23 PM, Rick2you2 said:

When I saw these 2 pages by Jim Aparo come up for sale from Phantom Stranger 11, that was that. I had previously seen them posted on Facebook, and hadn't owned any with Tannarak (a vampire of human souls) and PS together. This is a nice fight scene between the 2 of them with PS delivering his classic roundhouse punch. For my money. the best pair since Jayne Mansfield (with a young Jennifer Love Hewitt close behind).

 

Has Tannarak appeared in anything recently?

Some of my faves from Birds of Prey.

Babs and Dinah out on the town, and Babs having a quiet moment to herself on vacation.

Plus, a double page splash of Babs defending herself despite her wheel chair. All by very underrated artist Casey Jones.

Barbara Gordon: Are you kidding? I was a demon on the dance floor! I've closed every club in Gotham!

On 2/16/2023 at 11:20 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Argumentum ergo decedo,  confessional writing, or a mix? A tough question, that. 

I agree that justadude's posts are unnecessarily wordy, but they have made decent points.

And you may want to accept that most responders so far have pointed out modern art is far from all the same.

The 80's can be your favorite and they were the quite versatile, but most posters have agreed: modern art is no more 'samey' that most decades. 

You aren't going to convince us all. You have your taste and it's fine.

No one is going to attack your taste.

 No need to die on a hill testing down modern artists.

On 2/16/2023 at 7:59 AM, justadude said:

I absolutely drifted off into hyperbole. Generalizations, by nature, are false, so in making sweeping summaries, I will of course be wrong on many accounts and should qualify those statements with "many," "often," etc.

The financial value of art is something I avoided because not only do many see price = quality, but they forget the relationship this kind of art has to the market. It's a commercial art, which means the product is very much the finished page, not the art used in making it. And I totally agree with you in that artistic merit has little to no impact on pricing of OA. Pricing is mostly about which character is represented and how big that character is on the page. I also find that odd in that the most valuable pages are often covers or splashes in a medium defined by its interrelated nature of panels, gutters, and the movement of the eye across the page. Instead, collectors often want the biggest depiction they can find of their favorite character. Which is totally fine, but it doesn't make it good art as it's not even an honest representation of the very medium it comes from.

I also don't mind that most discussion is about older art, but to continually bash new art just because it's new and doesn't resonate with you is totally self-defeating. If people want this niche community to grow (which is incredibly small even among comic collectors), the way to do that isn't by disparaging things you aren't interested in. Art can be good that we don't like. It seems so fundamental in saying that, but fandom often has this point of view to where if they don't like it, it can't be good. I just think art, especially, should be given careful consideration and nuanced argument when talking about it. We should hold ourselves to a more nuanced standard than simply arguing over the first panel appearance of so-and-so. But, this is coming from someone who genuinely loves art and its many forms. Comic OA just seems to treat it differently than many other mediums. And on the flip side, I'd rather put a bullet in my head before hearing someone wax poetic as if they were at MOMA about a Jack Kirby page. I think there's a happy medium.

@Carlo M I absolutely agree that the shift to digital has made new OA collecting more difficult. It's a bummer to find that many artists only offer commissions when they have otherwise amazing pages in books. I also think it's worth noting that covers and variants have simply become separate art objects. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but collecting Artgerm, for example, is to collect singular representations, or fancy pinups of famous characters. To me it stands a little oblique to the comics medium as a whole as these covers have artistic merit, but they're qualitatively different than a comics page in that they don't have to communicate movement across a page. If that makes sense.

Biggest point you hit on for me is this:

It's very interesting that splashes and covers are the "biggest" pieces in a medium so reliant on storytelling via panels, gutters, eye movement, layouts etc.

I love a good cover or splash, but my favorite pages tend to be interiors actually. That one page in a issue that has some great character moments, or where every panel is a home run...

Zatanna lamenting her spell techniques by Esteban Mareto.

On 2/18/2023 at 10:39 PM, Fischb1 said:

I'm surprised no one's made the obvious comment yet.

It's a given in any collectible market that 4 quarters are worth less than a dollar bill. (It's the same reason that you have to give up so many pieces to get a mega-star in sports.) It's relatively easy to find a quarter-piece in the wild (or at auction) but a top piece? A "dollar bill piece" is much harder to obtain.

No collector I know would give up a primo top piece for it's "equal value" in a lot of smaller pieces. The same way you wouldn't trade your Kirbys for 50 Isherwoods. 

I think your expectation is unrealistic. 

You make a valid point that is 100% accurate, but I must say I think Isherwood is underrated haha.

Weighing in as someone who could likely never afford the Kirby market but understands the distinctions between those calling themselves dealers and collectors.

Collectors are generally people looking to collect what they "want". If you and another collector have pieces each of you want, you are likely to make a fair swap provided the value of the pieces isn't ridiculously one sided.

Dealers, however, are generally in it for the money. So as many others have stated, expecting an equal swap with them is probably not realistic. You will always have to offer more. 

This info applies to lots of hobbies, not just ours.

On 2/14/2023 at 10:55 AM, Rick2you2 said:

Colleen has posted this one on a few occasions, and it has gotten quite a few likes. I had asked her to do a female version of the Phantom Stranger, and she hit it.

She sure did. That might be my favorite piece of hers!

On 10/11/2022 at 2:47 AM, Rick2you2 said:

I expect the links would break since I didn’t upload the pictures. I prefer to keep my collection confidential, but after I get out of the hospital, I will try to send you a snippet.

C'mon have some funnnnnnn!!!

You could still keep your biggest pieces confidential!

On 2/13/2023 at 9:48 AM, Rick2you2 said:

Can you email me his address? He may not understand his client owns the art. If what he is saying is correct, DC’s new view just killed our hobby.

I have a feeling he doesn't understand. Or, is just saying that because they don't want to do this for me (but I feel that is less likely and don't want to imply that).

I'm sure the big two do tell people this as a failsafe, but then actively ignore it.

Anyway, the fellow is Pavel and I got the email from Otto's website. Please let me know if anything comes of it on your end.

Update:

I contacted Otto's agent via his website and asked about art sales or commissions, and they said he is not permitted to sell any art of DC characters as he is under contract with their corporation and the characters are copyrighted by DC.

On 2/12/2023 at 8:18 PM, KirbyCollector said:

That is not true at all. When I browsed the racks in the early 80s, I was confronted with a wide variety of very distinctive styles by artists such as Byrne, Art Adams, Aparo, Colan, Miller, Romita Sr, Romita Jr, Perez, Sienkiewicz, Sal Buscema, and Walt Simonson on monthly titles -- all artists whose work was instantly recognizable as theirs alone. You hated or loved artists at that time because their art made you care. I'm open to new art (neglected to mentioned I like Bilquis, who seems to have a good future), but right now most of what I see is a lot of bland, corporate art which doesn't induce me to plunk down my $4.

 In the 80's browsing the racks was essentially the only way to consume comics. Now, there are sooooo many titles from sooooo many publishers. Sure, if you just look at the main rack in a comic shop you might see a lot of the same, but if you dig deeper (and you won't really have to dig), you can find different stuff. 

If you want to say the 80s was one of the most versatile decades for art go for it, but that doesn't mean all modern art is the same. And most decades have had common characteristics amongst lots of the art. Maybe the 80s was different, but then that is the outlier, not modern art.

Heck, just thinking for ten seconds:

Mike Perkins, Bruno Redondo, Kyle Hotz, Paul Pelletier, Alvaro Martinez, Jorge Jimenez, Nathan Gooden, Joshua Cassara, Tim Seeley, Elsa Charretier, Otto Scmidt, Lucas Werneck, Casey Jones, Joshua Williamson, Dan Brereton, Fernando Blanco, Matteo Scalera, Sean Murphy, Amancay Nahuelpan... are all artists with at least semi distinct styles, some of which borrow a lot from the master's and some less.

And there are tons more waaay more unique.

 There's a ton of modern art out there so perhaps you are looking in the same spot and seeing the same stuff. 

You don't have to like modern art. It's probably not a coincidence that you don't mind Bilquis, who has a bit of a throwback style. Maybe that's more your thing. That's okay. 

I think this thread is a bit unfair to the hardworking artists of today, though.

Edit: I agree on corporate art (though bland is a matter of taste). But comics are a huge medium now. Of course lots of art looks similar, but lots also looks unique.

As another poster said, the "primary" style of every decade is similar. This has been the case for every decade since... Well ... Comics became a thing.

There is a plethora of good to great artists out there. Some are big names, many fly under the radar.  It's certainly up to taste to determine if you prefer the current "style" or more alternative approaches, or just prefer a style from the past... but don't sell modern artists short!

Edit: Just one example of a fantastic modern artist is Alvaro Martinez. And there plenty more of differing styles.

Edit again: I'm not sure what the OP means by "video game" inspired art, as games themselves have lots of different art directions. If they mean a lot of TNA... Well, that was the case in the 90s much worse than now. If they mean sort of animeish, that is a small fraction of video game style...

 Has anyone had luck getting original art from Otto Schmidt of any kind?

He was the artist on DC versus Vampires, and has done fun work for other titles over the years.

Most of his comic work is digital, but he does do some pencil sketches and some pencil work too. He has no website or dealer that I can find. I've never seen his pages for sale.

He has a strong social media presence. A few years ago I sent him a nice twitter DM asking if he would do a commission based on his work from DC versus Vampires or sell me some art from the series. He responded that yes he would, but then when I followed up about it, he told me to wait until he drew the art on his own and I could just buy it off him.

  Another poster warned me that he never would and that it was pointless trying to get commissions from him.

Just seems odd that he won't sell his sketches or monoprints either.

Of course, it's his art and his choice, but also never says "I don't sell my art". He just kinda vaguely says he will and then never does...

Anyone have any luck with Otto?

He is a fun artist who seems like a nice person. It's a shame.

On 12/21/2022 at 8:12 PM, alxjhnsn said:

Promotion of the artist and the artist's work is another duty that I believe they provide especially Felix.

Right, but promotion to whome? To us, the art buying public consumers, or are many reps actually working with publishers on behalf of artists? That's what I wonder.

Like, if DC wants so and so to draw a 6 issue mini series on man bat are they going through so and so's rep to arrange that? Or, is the artist arranging it and the rep is helping the artist sell the pages associated with the series and handle related commission requests. 

On 12/20/2022 at 11:02 AM, Rick2you2 said:

The short answer is no, I don’t. What I wrote was directed at Felix’s pricing practices. Here is the longer answer. In the law, there are 2 basic roles a person can have when dealing with someone else: agent or independent contractor  (technically, there are a few more, like quasi-arbitrator or dual agency, but I’ll save that for another day). An agent is legally obligated to follow the principal’s directions, an independent contractor is not. A dealer is the very epitome of an independent contractor: the dealer buys and sells on its own account. An agent does not. The agent can make recommendations to a principal, but must do what he/she is told or terminate the relationship. Felix is an agent who has a philosophy favoring volume sales at “reasonable” prices. He makes his money based on an unknown mix of percentages of sales price or lump sum amounts. He undoubtedly recommends pricing to his clients to move the material—a sensible approach for those artists generating a lot of new material and building name recognition. For established and desired artists, like Bruce Timm, why leave money on the table by seeking less than the maximum and sparing the artist extra work? Now if an artist didn’t like his agent’s approach, he can always say no and leave it to the agent to decide whether to continue as an agent. But, if an independent contractor owns the art, he can set the price as high or as low as he wants.

The only activities I have seen agents involve themselves in this field are sales of existing art and commissions. I would expect them to be involved in reprints, unless that is already governed by their contract with a publisher. Could they be doubling as Scott Boras’s in the baseball world? Yes, but I would hope they use an attorney for anything besides percentage numbers and raw dollars.

I was uneducated in the law aspects, and appreciate that insight. Thank you.

This is a point of interest to me. That is, what roles "reps" actually play in the comic art field. I wonder to what extent they set prices or dictate much of anything aside from selling pages and arranging commissions.

On 8/24/2020 at 10:08 AM, Rick2you2 said:

I’m not sure I follow, or agree, with that distinction. A rep acts as the artist agent. To maximize the artist’s cash flow, if that is what the artist wants, it can make sense to keep the price “competitive”. But set it too low, and the artist, as well as the rep, leave money on the table. And, it can set the market price low which impacts further income from sales. Since some people just want one example of an artist’s work, that is a limited strategy, too.
A dealer acts solely in his interest. But, with one apparent exception, needs cash flow, too, to buy and sell more art. Sitting on high priced inventory for a long time isn’t typically a good way to make money (exceptions noted). 
That Felix has found a sweet spot is a credit to him, but he isn’t doing it out of beneficence—just smart work effort.

I realize I am resurrecting a years old thread, but I often enjoy and respect your insights and I'm curious... 

Do we know if reps really do act as agents? Like, are they negotiating artists salaries for their work on books, submitting samples to publishers, and lobbying for their artists to get runs on major titles all the while negotiating fees with the big two and arranging con appearances?

Because I think of agents for actors and athletes as quite different than reps for comic artists, but perhaps I'm way off and they are actually similar.

  Or are they more so handling the artists interactions and jobs with the public? 

  I'm genuinely curious how much you and other experienced collectors know about what reps actually do for their artists. 

Have a good one!

On 12/16/2022 at 5:49 PM, Rick2you2 said:

Honestly, I may go with Johnny Journeyman. There are times when the True Artistic Legend doesn't hit a home run, or even a double. He/she may be having a bad day or perhaps the --script prevents the artist from showing their skill. Likewise, journeymen can sometimes produce beautiful work. Art shouldn't be evaluated substantially based on the artist's reputation even when the price of it often seems to be heavily influenced by that reputation.  Doing so isn't much different than signature collecting.

Nailed it.

  I recently reached out to Matt Haley via Instagram to get some commissions that turned out great. He also takes requests via his website.

For someone with pretty extensive history in comics, his rates were beyond reasonable and his turnaround times were even greater. 

I know Matt mostly works in film now, but I recently reread his Batman: Batgirl One Shot and his art was awesome.

Here are examples of his work for me.

On 10/24/2022 at 6:33 AM, MattM CS said:

Hello,

Thank you for your question. These books were signed on 10/4/22. This is when your estimated turnaround time began. This is currently in line to go through grading. Let us know if you have any other questions. Have a great day!

Thank you for the info! I appreciate it.