HotKey

On 6/25/2023 at 4:59 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Whelp, guys ya ain't gonna be getting your books back, cause OP is gonna be sitting in jail soon  You can't just offer stakes in a company like that.  The JOBS act controls how this is done.  

Since he's trying to gain $160,000, he needs to be releasing INDEPENDENTLY-AUDITED finances.  Where are those OP?  I assume you also uploaded your FORM C into EDGAR?  FINRA will also want a word with OP. Jeebus this thread just keeps going from bad to worse.

Good catch here, this is from the finra.org website and should help answer some questions this may raise:

"Read and Understand Key Disclosure and Education Information

Since crowdfunding investments are likely to be early-stage ventures and may be highly risky, the JOBS Act and Regulation Crowdfunding include provisions designed to inform investors about these investments and their potential risks. 

Companies that conduct offerings under Regulation Crowdfunding are required to disclose, among other things: 

• A description of the business of the company and its anticipated plan of business, including its name, legal status, physical address and website address.
• A discussion of the material factors that make an investment in the company speculative or risky.
• A discussion of the company’s financial condition.
• The names and positions of the directors and officers; the name of each person who is a beneficial owner of 20 percent or more of the company’s outstanding voting equity securities; and additional information such as the business experience of the directors and officers over the past three years.
• The price of the securities or the method for determining the price.  

This information is to be filed in a document called Form C and uploaded to the SEC’s Edgar system for access by investors and crowdfunding intermediaries. "

I just wanted to update everyone that I'll be presenting this panel again at Capital City Comic Con in Lansing, Michigan on Saturday, July 1st at 1pm! They have also asked me if we can do a 2nd panel on foreign comics and of course I was very excited to do so, so on Friday June 30th at 4pm our brand new panel called, "Broadening Our Comic Horizons: The Growth of the Foreign Comic Market" will make its debut! As the title says this panel will focus just on the market around foreign editions the last few years and all the good and bad around it. Feel free to post any examples from the market the last few years that are both good and bad. Big sales that went beyond expectations, seeing ghosts come to market, and even suspected fake sales will all be covered in this to try to educate everyone on what they should expect when entering the foreign comic market and what to be careful of.

Also I will be presenting both views in the main panel around the price variants, that some view them as foreign editions and some don't and the reasons both sides have those opinions, and I'll cover the printing process involved around them as well. That is a direct result of the conversations that happened in this thread, so thank you to everyone who contributed to it. If anyone is going to C4 I hope you stop in and say hi!

On 6/4/2023 at 11:53 AM, lou_fine said:

If you really want to improve accuracy and have more science and less art when it comes to grading, maybe what you need to do is to get it back to the way it all started with Overstreet's 3 basic condition grades of only Good, Fine, and Mint.    

I still mostly grade this way on anything I sell and its the same way I did it in the 90s. Low/mid/high grade with a subcategory of low/mid/high in each gives you 9 different grades you can assign and I haven't had anyone complain that my grades were wrong in over 2 years. The closest I will get on some moderns is calling them "submission candidates" if I can't find any visible flaw.

Absolutely nothing is wrong with grading the condition of a comic as a "higher mid grade" and it removes all of the potential conflict from, "You called this a 7.0 when its obviously a 6.5!" If they want more specific than that, send them multiple pics or a video and let them assign their own number grade.

This is just another reason I love the world of foreign comics, you are always finding new things.

I just saw my first Irish price variants. Anyone know solid history on these?

On 5/31/2023 at 9:43 AM, rakehell said:

All this talk of reprints has got me thinking about something. 

First Tank Girl?

Which makes this a reprint -

 Or is it the first US appearance of Tank Girl?

   

I tried to avoid this one because its a whole other can of worms

Did you know Boba Fett appeared in the UK over a month before SW 42 was released in the US?

So SW 42 American is a reprint. Magazine super special debate aside... 

From the article:

 The US issue 42 has the first US cover and regular size comic appearance of Boba Fett, but it came out on September 23rd, 1980. Issue 127 has the same opening splash page as 42 but came out on July 31st, 1980. He is not anywhere else in the story, but it is his first UK comic appearance.

Link: Boba UK

Have fun with this one

Good morning! I love waking up to some good debate on foreign comics.

If anyone thinks progress isn't being made in this thread, you're wrong. I've also learned how to quote multiple people in one reply. Let the good times roll!

On 5/30/2023 at 5:58 PM, ganni said:

Me? I collect comic books because I like the drawing, the colors, the ballon dialogue etc... .

100%. The more I see different foreign editions with variations of the American cover and other original art, the more I love them. Hulk 1 may have the most examples of beautiful variations in foreign editions. I have a German Williams coming with that awesome orange background. Tell me this isn't a thing of beauty.

That Strange Tales you posted Steve is another one I would love to find a copy of someday. There is just some absolutely amazing art out there from artists in other countries and that really does draw a lot of people into foreign comics. Outside of maybe Cortez, Duran and Frisano, foreign artists are very underappreciated still and original art can usually be had for a song in comparison to American OA.

On 5/31/2023 at 5:36 AM, rakehell said:

Another observation (nit-pick). I think you're distinctly light there, Shelby mate. If you just figure American collectors who are starting to pay big money for foreign first-appearances and such, then, maybe, yeah. But I'm speaking as an American living abroad and I can tell you that collectors of Golden, Silver, and Bronze Age Brazilian, Mexican, British, Australian, French, Belgian, Swedish, Norwegian, etc, etc, etc foreign editions number in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

Yeah I was only speaking to people who collected American comics who started collecting foreign editions. There are definitely millions and millions worldwide!

On 5/31/2023 at 6:53 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

@HotKey

See what you've done.... 

I like the Venn diagram! I just don't like the word "reprint" in the bottom right. In the diagram it would be technically correct, but that word carries such a negative connotation I try to avoid it unless I'm specifically talking about a country reprinting its own first editions.

On 5/31/2023 at 6:46 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I prefer 'publication'. German Publication, etc.

Well I mean technically they are all comic books magazines... 

I'll be honest, the indica is swaying me pretty good on classifications.

On 5/30/2023 at 11:10 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Like CGC, and again respectfully, I believe you are acting in good faith here Shelby but you are undermining your own good intentions by placing UKPVs under the 'foreigns' banner. You cannot on the one hand say you are doing what you can to correct the false reprint perception associated with them and then lump the books in with reprints. UK/Canadian/Australian Price Variants are a separate first printing comic entity, worthy of their own categorisation, and which should not be mentioned at all when discussing non-US publications which, by definition, are not first printings of the original, salient material.  You're your own man, but I would urge you to reconsider where you place the emphasis. By all means mention UK/Canadian/Australian Price Variants in your seminars - but how you place the emphasis will be critical to your audience's understanding. Spread facts, not opinions, would be my advice.

I don't see how I'm lumping anything as reprints. I'm taking steps to point out to people that 1st prints in other countries are 1st editions for that country and not reprints. I have never called a 1st print from any country a reprint and have tried to show that they aren't. I have been consistent on that point. I think its a disservice to a country to call its first edition a reprint.

For the Panini hypothetical:

I think where we have a fundamental difference of opinion is that your position seems to be that the place of production is most important in classification, my position is that the place of distribution is most important. Many countries shared printing duties, one example being the HIT Comics from Germany. Many of these were printed in Italy, but nobody considers them Italian variants. I do understand that the 1st print run in America is a different distinction than those, but my view is the same logic applies.

Consider another what if, same premise, but now instead of the same run on the same machine, there are 2 machines side by side at the printer. One does American, one does the price variants, both printed at the same time. Still not foreign editions?

What if the American is printed in New York on July 1st but Panini prints in Dallas on July 1st? 

What if Panini instead prints in Mexico on the same day? Canada? Italy? I think this may help show my position better.

I do 100% agree with you on the CGC labeling, it should be "1st appearance of the Justice League in Brazil". That seems clear cut and just about everyone seems to agree on it. What's the problem Matt?  

You have definitely given me more to consider though and I will be giving this a lot more thought before my next panel at the end of June.

I understand your position better. Let me ask a hypothetical:

If Panini announced that they were now printing all their foreign editions in America alongside the original print run because they calculated it could save them .5 cents per issue, would those no longer be foreign editions in your opinion and just price variants? They would fall under the same criteria you apply to the other price variants, there would just be plate changes like before.

I do agree there was/is a bad reputation about them being branded "reprints" and that did hurt their value for a long time. That is also why part 1 of part 1 in my panel is going over why these aren't reprints and are first editions for that country, just like other printed books are viewed. I am doing what I can to correct that false perception. 

I do believe that as this misconception is fixed, we will see the pence editions/price variants surpass the American counterparts, much like newsstands have done as awareness over them increased.

 - Shelby

Hi Steve!
Thanks for weighing in. I do want to say that when it comes to opinions that I value and respect in the foreign community, you are at the top with people like the Ott's and Roybal. I don't think it can be overstated how valuable and important all the countless hours of research and time you and them have put into foreign comics are. Even though it can "go without saying", I do want to say I clearly would not be where I am in the foreign community without all the research and groundwork laid by you and them and a few others like you and I have a lot of respect for everything you all have done. I do believe we all have the same goal and that is to get this right.

I did read through the information you provided. Where I think the original conversations failed is that they all seemed to center around an either/or classification, that they had to be called either foreign editions or price variants.

My position is that price variants are a subset within foreign editions. They can be, and are, both I think.

Let me ask it this way, why aren't price variants a subset within foreign editions? I don't see a clear reason in any of the information that they can't be both.

*edited fixed grammar*

Thanks Mike for keeping things civil.

As me and many others have stated, there will never be an overall consensus on how these are classified, with one factor being what I covered before about the early influence of a smaller group, some of whom don't care if their opinion is no longer the majority, and some of whom don't even care to discuss this ("This is a settled matter. case closed"). That's fine and I respect everyone's opinion, especially those who have been in the foreign world for a decade or more, I just don't necessarily agree with them all.

The only constant is change.

I stand by my simplest classification: if you needed a passport to buy it, its a foreign edition.

Those are definitely some beautiful examples of foreign artists just killing it on covers!

I just got invited to present this panel again at Capital City Comic Con here in Michigan the weekend of June 30th, so I'm always looking for ways to improve on the panel.

There's been some good points made in this thread for sure. I expect the next panel to be about 80% similar with about 20% different info.

Any constructive suggestions or input on changes to the next panel are always welcome. Just remember my main goal with this panel is to remove as much of the mystery and confusion around foreign comics as possible for people considering starting to collect them.

On 5/26/2023 at 10:23 AM, valiantman said:

So, you think that a 1997 reprint of Amazing Fantasy #15 on its 35th U.S. anniversary in Imaginaristan (the first foreign edition in Imaginaristan) should be as important to foreign edition collectors as the 1962 Amazing Fantasy #15 pence?

Not as important obviously, but not viewed as a reprint either, much like the recent Russian influx of popular covers the last few years. Nobody is chasing the ASM 300 one like the Philippines one, but most are still viewing it for what it is, the 1st edition/printing of the ASM 300 cover in Russia.

On 5/26/2023 at 1:52 AM, valiantman said:

 

Much like U.S. comics, and books, and sportscards, etc., the difference between an ORIGINAL (same date as the U.S. version) and a REPRINT (later date) is far more important than whether a book is considered a "foreign edition" or a "foreign price variant".

 

I disagree with this position. I believe the date in other countries is irrelevant for classification. Just like other books and literature, when it is printed for the first time in that country, regardless of what other countries have done prior, and regardless of exactly when it is printed, that is the first edition for that country.

There are even a few rare examples where a foreign edition actually predates the American 1st appearances. Are you going to call the American comics reprints in those situations?

On 5/25/2023 at 2:58 PM, steve566 said:

Very few in the foreign comic community that I know consider pence variants foreign editions... They along with Canadian and Australian PV's are great to collect with foreign editions but they are simply price variants.. nothing else.. The books are the exact same except for the price, same cover, same language, same ads. 

I did have a more in depth explanation on this in the panel, but it felt like it may come across as speaking against a group of people within foreign comics, so I took it out, but I'll do my best to replicate it here. I want to stress I'm not trying to speak bad about any of the history in foreign comics, these are just my observations, but I know it can come across in a negative way, despite it not being my intention or belief.

So we can all agree foreign editions have changed a lot the last few years, especially with the amount of people who collect them.

For a long time, the foreign comic community was much smaller and very close for the most part, and over the course of the last 20 years that group had many discussions and debates around foreigns and various classifications and terms including on these forums, including pence and other price variants, and largely decided that they were not foreign editions, and that was mostly the accepted consensus at the time because of how small the group was and how much influence was wielded by them and their opinions. I think a fair estimation of the size of this group is around 100 people. 

Today, I think its fair to say at least 1,000 people are collecting foreign editions, if not more. What that has done is bring in 10x the amount of opinions, and most of these newer collectors seem to be approaching the foreign comic classification issue with a much simpler approach, not really seeming to care to get into the nuances that were more prominent in the earlier  discussions. These are largely the collectors that I am interacting with on IG, WhatNot, Mercari and in person at conventions, as most of the foreign collectors who have been around already have their own contacts in other countries.

The discussions I have with these newer collectors to foreign comics, and the ones I hear about, are pretty much what I try to present in the panel. I know some of the collectors who have been around a while disagree, but you also have to realize that what was once the accepted majority opinion of the community has quickly become a minority opinion, simply because of how many new people are in the community now and these newer collectors not agreeing with some of the previous conclusions the original group had come to. Just like Hulk 180 & 181, there will always be debate around this one though. 

Yeah I know everyone will not necessarily agree with everything I state, especially the first part lol, but all I can say is that it seems to be the growing consensus among foreign collectors I buy and sell from, with a few exceptions. I just stand by my passport statement and I'm always up for good discussions around stuff like this with foreign editions 

I'm presenting it again the end of June and I'm in different stages of talks with several other conventions to present it, so I am always up for trying to tweak it and improve it!

I had the honor and pleasure of presenting my panel, "Why Collect Foreign Comics?" at MC3 over the weekend for the first time! I had a lot of fun and already am talking to other cons to bring this to more places as well. Give it a watch and let me know what you think! All feedback welcome, thanks and I hope you enjoy it!

Why collect foreign comics?

Take Daredevil 16 and Daredevil 131 via PM

On 1/9/2022 at 10:33 PM, The-Collector said:

Also since when is a mid-grade AC 1 110k? That's laughable. 

Not only that, it's cheaper than a low grade! 🤣🤣🤡🤡

Foreign comics are still going way up.

On 1/8/2022 at 5:43 PM, adampasz said:

If it is only the cover, shouldn't they all grade NG or Incomplete?

Or can we now submit covers only and get Blue Labels, if we claim the interiors are "invisible"?

Can we also submit grails missing covers as invisible covers? 🤔

On 12/17/2021 at 11:41 AM, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

The real question...who is going to be the MCU Venom???

 

***I don't think it will be Tom Hardy

If they want to be true to comics they will get someone like Brock Lesnar.

So much for setting up the sinister six! Secret Wars time all the way. 

I wouldn't look for Spidey keys to drop right before No Way Home.