MyNameIsLegion

This is such a great piece- and I love seeing all the additional images showing the process- anyone get a bit of an I, Zombie actress vibe in the face? Not that it's a bad thing - just something I noticed. Will you be displaying this at any shows? I'd like to see it someday.

I agree with 100% of everything Gene has said in this thread, and on the subject of Modern OA in general. The rest of you....not so much

Why limit yourself to just one inker send it out to more than one how about Mark Schultz and Dave Hunt if he's still around

if your'e playing the long odds, you might as well go double or nothing, and open a restaurant inside the comic shop too- what could possible go wrong? ( but you don't see Grebal opening a comics store, and he has restaurants, so that should tell you something about how difficult it is)

I can sympathize with the inkers position on this- it's all the same to him, and you can't tell the difference- but to a collector, if you bought the blueline-inked page from the inker, you share bragging rights for the "original" art with the penciled page if it exists. And just imagine if at some point the inker is commissioned to ink the original pencils. Is it a recreation? What if he's asked to ink over the pencils directly? Is it now "more original" than the inked blueline since it's the original pencils inked by the original inker after the fact? This is why collecting modern art is such a quagmire- and factors into the discussion a couple of weeks back on the future of the hobby that it's likely to fizzle due to demographics, economics, compressed storytelling, etc- coupled with the very method by which the art is created- ultimately it will dilute and depress collectibility.

I more or less agree with this valuation approach, but I would consider that whereas, it' s a 60/40 split if pencils/inked blue line exist for a single piece, but would a digital pencils/blueline inks be worth more than 40%, because the other 60% doesn't really exist? It's more "one of a kind" so maybe 60%? I'd put it thus- in Dollar terms Hypothetical Cover of Brat and Bored #1 by Penciler/Inker; Brat and Bored #1: Full Pencils & inks, lettering $1000 Brat and Bored #1: Full Pencils & inks, with no lettering or titles, all done digitally $900 Brat and Bored #1: Pencils only: $480 Brat and Bored #1: Inked Blueline of above: $320 Brat and Bored #1: Digitally Penciled, with inked blueline: $500. I've raised the price of the inked blueline from $320 to $500 for the simple fact that it's now the only original to be had. That's what bugs me about 2 originals existing for the same thing. The whole is greater than the sun of it's parts, and when there are 2 objects vying for the title of "original" the price is diminished for each. Eliminating the raw pencils increases the value of the inked blueline. It's a boon for the inker if nothing else.

that perfectly sums it up for me! thanks!

Howdy, my first art day of the new year. Adventure Comics #439 by Jim Aparo THE VOICE THAT DOOMED THE SPECTRE When I was 10, I got a copy of The Great Comic Book Heroes by Jules Feiffer for Xmas, and it was the first time I ever saw the mysterious Spectre reprinted from All-Star Comics #1 by Siegel & Baily. I was always a Marvel Zombie up to that point, but the Spectre was my introduction to the more macabre and spooky DC characters that included Deadman, Phantom Stranger, & Dr. Fate. I later became obsessed with finding all the Spectre comic appearances from the Silver and Bronze age, and the Adventure run by Fleisher/Aparo was at the top of the list. Finding Aparo Spectre art is exceedingly rare, so this is a precious gem for me.

Half of my grail list is Sal, but this is my favorite Sal page from my collection- this was the first Avengers comic I ever had as a kid.

I bet $1 on all of them. It works on The Price is Right.

Very cool! I have a lot of my comics bound, and have considered dressing them up with Dust Jackets, like you did with the Atlas set. How did you go about getting those DJs made? I followed this tutorial for the 1975 books - Dustjacket Tutorial Phil Very cool site, I had no idea so many people love doing the same thing I am doing in binding their runs. Its giving me a lot of great ideas, thanks for the link! I've been a mod on the site for 10 years, and it's a pretty polite board with lots of helpful people and informative info. anyone that is into binding their own comics or magazines should visit the Marvel Masterworks Fan site- it's broken up into several discussion boards, and it is devoted to all things related to Collected Editions: Omnibus, Archives, Masterwork Absolute Editions, Trades, AE's, and yes, creating your own bound volumes. There are 2 binding forums, one is just an archive of the active discussion board for enthusiasts to use as a reference- thats what was linked to up thread here: Binding Vault The Active discussion board is here: Uncollected Editions: The Homegrown Hardcovers Binding Forum if you go to the Uncollected Editions page- there are some stickied threads at the top of the page that serve as an FAQ- lists of Bindery Houses that specialize in comics, custom logo creations, maps for different volumes or characters, all sorts of stuff to do DIY books. It is the biggest resource and community that I'm aware of in the hobby. It's been going strong since 2005. Even some of the HA guys have been on there, like James Halperin.

very cool- and a nice shout out to that stinkininkin fella.

and.... MTU #11. Subby 46,51-54,57,58, Hulk 228.270

check that feedback, all those cancelled sales for the same thing. Pretty shady.

it sure looks that way....(but doesn't work) "Voting is still active - change your votes"

Would you be talking about your own impression made based solely on your own experiences or the ones made by others that you made yours from? Because the later is no way to go through life making impressions of people, places, or things. I don't need to stick my hand in a fire if I see some other poor do it first and get burned.

my votes: Brian- I suggest having a way for voters to review their choices after the fact so they can share them- if I hadn't taken screen shots, I'd forget, and sharing your vote is half the participation. Also, the change your vote function isn't working, so you can't go back to review that way. I forgot to take a screenshot of one category, so I don't remember exactly what I voted for. [img

Pablo Marcos over Bucker:

Tony Dezuniga used damn near every kind he had on this:

Great post. I don't think it is incongruous to anything I've said - we agree a lot on some points, and just have different degrees of agreement on others, as will the broad spectrum of participants in the hobby. would that be: diffadegreement?

24-year old collector receives his "vintage" art purchased off eBay in the mail: "Cool, word balloons. Wait. Why are are half of them peeling off? This one just fell off. Oh man, why are the panels all yellow? I wish the seller had written in the description that these paste-ups were falling off. So do I glue them back on? Is that allowed? Do I use Elmer's glue? Where do I buy rice paste? Do I hire a professional? How much would that cost? Where do I find a professional? Is this conservation or alternation? If I leave it as is, does it affect the value of my art? If I paste the balloons back on, does it affect the value of my art? Do I have to come clean about it or will the Boards tar and feather me if I don't? Oh. I knew I should have bought that wordless Manhattan Projects page." this happens to be hanging in my room, I chose it at random because I liked the inking. Do you see any yellowed, peeling word balloons here? No you don't because Aparo lettered it himself, right there on the art. I will concede however, that I've passed on many a page where the pasted on word balloons were all yellow, and it really detracted from the page. One of the reason I've never really coveted covers is because they are often the most likely OA to have stats, glue, corrections, tape, stains, discoloration, etc.

hmm, where did I say that? I never said ANY Modern OA will be inferior to ANY BA art. That's patently ridiculous. This is what I said, which echoes what Gene has said as well: Basically, older art has a larger "middle class" of good art. You don't have to have Kirby or Ditko LA. You could have an iconic Sal Buscema Captain America or Spidey panel page, or a Cockrum second run X-Men page and have it easily clear 3-4K. why? because the art is "iconic" (hate that the word has gotten diluted, but it remains true) Beyond simple sale auction price performance, just consider the individual pages of art themselves. I bet any one of us that have read a title over the years, when presented with a random panel page from 1965-1993 could ID the exactly issue, or at least within a 5 issues span the exact issue number just by looking at the art without needing to know the artist or inker. Pick a modern decompressed page, even with the artists as a clue, and odds are you will struggle to pin it down. Modern art is BORING, and bereft of context. Outside of the cover, a splash, a pin-up, there simply isn't that much substance to take in. It could be well rendered, and there are some fine modern artists, but they will never be the BWS or Wrightson's of the future, with the same exponential price page growth, because there will be very few pages that stand out. Comic art collecting is a mixture of nostalgia and aesthetics - modern art has diluted both dimensions for the reasons outlined above. Unless you start producing books exactly the way they were done 30 years ago, they will never follow the same market trajectory as they have in the past. This is not merely grumpy old man talk, and we haven't even factored in stratification of entertainment mediums and changes to consumption via technology that will take a bite out regardless. The only "hope" for the future, like with the vinyl resurgence, is that a younger audience will tap into the longing for more genuine, substantive, tactile objects, but the fact remains, as Gene has pointed out - the next generation will have less time, space or money to really accumulate and curate the sorts of collections older guys have now. So that reduces the market to an even smaller niche, with less velocity, I suspect the oldest art, pre compression will retain much more value but Modern art will never break out in a similar fashion at any point in the future. you've missed the main points here, about the iconography of older non-compressed art having a larger middle class, not from an aesthetics viewpoint, but from a nostalgia potential and thus price potential aspect. You guys are getting your modern art panties in a wad needlessly, I'm not trashing the art or the artists, or the stories they tell, I'm trashing the general nature of the physical object's COLLECTIBILITY in a day and age where the confluence of economics, demographics, culture and technology conspire to render, on the whole, a less collectible object. Another person asked about less documented instances of readership via trades and libraries and such, yeah that occurs, but as I said before, there's a BIG difference between consumers and collectors. Casual consumers aren't likely to collect comic art. If they didn't collect the comics, didn't buy the trade paperback, read it online or while waiting for a movie to start at Barnes and Noble, they are not going to take the leap to looking online for that one special page, was seared into their brains, that made such an impression on them in the 30 seconds they glanced at it and turned the page or swiped their finger to the next page. Nostalgia requires familiarly, familiarity requires exposure and repetition. You guys are glossing over the fundamental psychology of collecting. It's one thing to be a fan or a consumer, another to be a collector. OA is the black tar heroin of collecting, but comics are the gateway drug, you skip that step, and its all Nancy Reagan "just say no" to Modern OA.

There's a difference between a story designed to be told without words, and just zapping all the narration & dialogue out of a story! Yes, older collectors have biases', but I think it's being a bit overblown here. The reality is that Modern OA is simply less complete than vintage in portraying the finished product. Comics are words + pictures, not just pictures. Can you imagine if strip art OA was missing the dialogue because it was lettered digitally? I don't think one has to be steeped in older OA to miss the absence of narration and dialogue on the Modern OA board and recognize that it is a limitation on its appeal. Anyone who reads a modern comic is going to see that the art is missing a lot of vital components from the published material. Sure, if you love the source material enough, it won't matter - definitely not disputing that. But, I do think it limits the appeal, because not everyone will fully accept the limitations. Also, I'm not surprised that you've sold so many complete Modern indie books. I feel that fact actually bolsters my argument! Yes, when you buy a complete Modern story, you're still missing the words, but, over the course of 22 pages, you have something that feels more substantial and is easier to both present and contextualize. I was looking over the Paper Girls art you posted the other day (someone gave me the first TPB as a Christmas gift). I'm sure there are many younger fans, and those who don't have lots of money to spend on this hobby, who would just like the best piece of the series that they can afford. But, I consider myself to be a reasonably serious OA collector - if I just want to get one example from a particular run or series, I want something that presents well, is very representative, works well as a standalone, something I can be happy with as a "one-and-done" example. It is simply very hard to find that in Modern OA interiors due to the nature of decompressed storytelling, and I think the Chiang art you posted was not an exception. Which is why I think owning a complete book helps alleviate a lot of that problem - while it may be hard to find one page that encapsulates everything you'd want in an example of a Modern title, owning a whole book usually does the trick! +1- I've been saying pretty much the same things as Gene all day, he's just nicer about it, and I've had more caffeine than sleep so I'm not sugar coating anything (but I'm not especially annoyed with anyone either, it's still a fun debate)

Yes, if we are strictly evaluating the art on aesthetics alone. But so much more to consider, including nostalgia...which, in the thread, is the greatest variable of all. I'm just not sure how many realize it, or will admit it? I absolutely acknowledge nostalgia, in fact it's the basis of my argument- because the physical object has changed, and the storytelling style has changed, and the method of telling and selling the stories has changed - all those factors combined with the point of this thread (technology fragmenting pop culture) result in Modern OA, more so than any previous era of comic collecting) NOT producing the same potential nostalgia quotient that would make a 12 year old in 2005 now covet that issue and remember it fondly and seek out the art in 2025, because that "art" will not resonate on a fundamental level in the same manner or degree as a 12 yr old kid looking at a comic in 1995, 1985, 1975, 1965, 1955, or 1945 would have. This isn't about my particular set of rose colored glasses that think modern OA is . I also thought most GA art was from a purely aesthetic POV. I think modern OA is because of the object itself and how it is produced. You are completely sidestepping that reality, choosing the wear your own rose colored glasses. If modern OA was penciled and inked much like it was the last 50 years I would buy it (and I have bought some, and I have lots of art without word balloons, look at my gallery, much of the Marvel Magazine art has the type on an overlay) My point about consecutive pages with lettering was simply to make a point- you can read the damn thing. Give me an entire issue of OA for a modern book and I can't tell WTF is going on- mostly people standing around looking constipated or concerned. And for the record, I've read a decent amount of modern comics, and having recently processed a 30,000 issue comic collection from late 50's to 2015 I've seen it all. Aesthetically, modern OA is far superior to the average art produced in the early to mid- 90s, especially by the big 2. I think DC now has the most consistent and stable content and standards, but man, did it drift every which way for 10 years. Comics are far most sophisticated now. Nevertheless, that does not mean a kid will drop 5k on a panel page in 25 years. The odds are against it. Odds are they wouldn't even recognize it if you held it six inches from their face. now get off my lawn!