conditionfreak

To some, but not to everyone. Then the Market can price it accordingly .

 

To the vast majority. Think about it. You see 2 different Hulk 181 9.2. One says"may be trimmed." The other doesn't. Which one would you want, and pay more for?

 

Think Dan Marino in the 1983 NFL Draft.

 

What next?

 

TMNT books that say "might be fake" on the label.

 

Might as well say "Don't buy me" on the label.

Naw. People play the CPR game. They will be glad to play the "maybe, just maybe, this time it will get a straight blue label" game.

People are greedy to the core. Hence why so many give their bank routing numbers to Nigerian Prince's.

Man Stu got blitzed in a hurry.

 

Hi Stu.

Yep. This thread got "trimmed". In this case, it was a very good trimming.

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

 

So inevitably......trimming gets a pass because CGC can't detect it with absolute certainty.

 

Slippery slope indeed

As I stated previously. If they are certain, then give it a "trimmed" label. But if they ain't sure. Then it gets blue. A reputable business model, IMO. If your doctor believes you are diabetic and need insulin, but is not sure. He better not tell you to start taking insulin.

He has to be certain you are diabetic before he prescribes insulin shots. Or he is in big trouble.

There are too many people invested in the CGC system and model. It will never go away and never stop being used.

Just as PGX is used every day.

Think of the "investment" in CGC like this: You buy gold, and stock it away for protection of your financial future. Gold dives down to lower than you paid for it.

Do you sell then? No, you do not. You hold and talk up the product, until such time you can at least recoup your initial investment. With your eye on making some sort of a profit. Then you get the hell out of it before it drops again.

Those here (and there are several, if not many), that rely on the CGC company for their financial gains full or part time. Will continue to "talk up" and defend the CGC model. Because they make a profit from it, or have too much investment in that particular product. No matter what.

CGC will continue to be the bedrock of the hobby. IF you consider the "hobby" to be flipping and investment. If you just like reading comic books, then you probably won't care one wit about CGC or its credibility.

I would be interested in how someone like sufunk or Peter in Portugal views this situation. Given the extent of their collection and money poured into CGC graded books. Would they continue on after this? Would they reconsider just obtaining raw books based on their own grading? Would they rethink and reassess their CGC graded book offers? Or will they just continue to carry on with what they have been doing, and consider this an anomaly or one off event?

I think the short answer will most likely be, that they will wait and see what happens with this situation. Which makes perfect sense.

I sell books. But I only sell books I bought to sell, or were incidental in large collections I purchased. I do not sell books I bought for my personal collection.

I am a collector. Not a flipper. But every purchase I make, I do with the hope of future increased value.

As I suspect 95% of us do.

The "burn it" comment, might be the most absurd posting EVER on this forum. A JIM #83, that almost anyone and everyone who collects, would be happy to have in their collection. Or for later resale. Whom among us would not?

I suspect the originator of that statement, regrets he made it. Hence his "bow out".

Now, back to the more common sense opinions and thoughts.

If the book IS trimmed. Then steps can be taken to make whole those involved by CGC's misstep. If the book is NOT trimmed. Then steps can be taken to make whole Spider Dan.

But if CGC can not authoritatively state the book is trimmed or not trimmed. Then it should be considered to not be trimmed, and we are back to making Spider Dan whole ON THE DIFFERENCE between what he may have gotten for it being sold in a blue label, and what he actually sold it for in a purple label. That would be a phone call barter situation, since a selling price is not written in stone, for any book.

Cost of doing business, for CGC.

And of course. Steps to amend how CGC checks for trimming and how accurate their checks are estimated to be, should be promulgated to the hobby. We don't expect perfection. But we do expect reassessment and change in procedure and expectation, when appropriate.

Just like tape on a book, or pressing. Companies have to adjust with the times.

In my personal opinion, based on books I own, PGX gets the grading number right more often than CGC does. The problems with PGX, are the untrustworthiness and the restoration detection. Of course I have to make the disclaimer here, that ALL grading is opinion, and thus can not be realistically disputed, unless it is just ridiculously wrong.

But this thread isn't about PGX. It is about CGC.

As to removing the book from the market. That is a non-starter. It is a first appearance of Thor. Worth thousands of dollars, in either color label. It sold in a purple label and it will again.

You have never posted here before? Under any screen name?

How is the solution, that a book that may actually be trimmed, is left in a blue slab? Isn't this just passing the buck to the next buyer?

My guess is that the current owner will be asked to resubmit this book for free, and it will be given a purple label. Since he (or she) will not actually lose money because he bought it with a purple label on it. With CGC giving a mea culpa, stating they just got it wrong when they gave it a blue label. And that things will be "tightened up" in regards to trimming, etc.

 

How do you reconcile the fact that Spider-Dan may have taken a loss on the book, after the resolution reached with CGC likely hinged on him eating purple and liking it, plus whatever amount he netted selling it as purple?

 

And what about the grading costs, and lost opportunity costs to the submitter? Does seem a bit overreaching to expect everyone will play nice, especially when CGC wasn't willing to budge on their position it was purple, nor were they initially even willing to compensate Spider-Dan when this situation was originally publicly aired.

 

I see your suggestion as being a little too clean-cut, and highly contingent on the cooperation of two injured parties, which is minimized to one if the current owner tells CGC to take a hike, but whose financial injury and lost opportunity costs should still be acknowledged and restituted well before we can return to any discussion about CGC's reputation recovering from this.

Spider Dan lost because the book was given a purple label. End of story on that. It has happened to many, that a second (or third) grade, was not what a submitter was hoping for.

Fees lost to the latest submitter were his lottery ticket purchase. He won, but it may turn into a loss, if CGC goes the way I think they will.

If he returns it per their request(not that they have requested he do so). That is just how I believe this thing HAS to shake out. I see no other options that are realistic.

Unless we are all being pranked, given that April Fools day is arriving soon.

If that is the case, then kudos to those involved. But I seriously doubt that is the case.

As I posted previously in this thread. I am wondering what "everyone in the building with grading credibility" means. And if that is an exact quote from Harshen.

Was there one person in the building on that day, that was considered as a credible grader? Two people?

Did the OP exact quote what Harshen stated, or did the OP just put it into his own words?

I would love to be a fly on the wall in CGC's main office, when the meeting is held on how to address this situation.

Now THAT would be interesting.

My guess is that the current owner will be asked to resubmit this book for free, and it will be given a purple label. Since he (or she) will not actually lose money because he bought it with a purple label on it. With CGC giving a mea culpa, stating they just got it wrong when they gave it a blue label. And that things will be "tightened up" in regards to trimming, etc.

There is no other way this could work out. Anything other than the above, would be quite a devastating hit to their business credibility.

But they will survive, no matter what the outcome of this situation. Just like GM will with their current embarrassing situation. There are just too many people invested in the CGC model. Collectors that have poured thousands of dollars into their collections, sellers who specialize in CGC "stuff", auction houses that specialize in CGC "stuff", and even the casual collector who only has ten to twenty slabbed comics.

Like Columbia Comics stated. It is not the end of the world. Although I hate when someone says that their kids and wife still love them, so anything else is no big deal.

It actually IS a big deal. If you have hundreds of CGC graded books in your collection. As I do.

waiting to see how this plays out

Your portal to the future.

 

This thread is going off the rails. It was full of facts and opinions, based on our combined knowledge about the hobby and known CGC methods and previous actions.

But now....

Not the same rug and not the same camera.

From the original poster on page 1.

"Harshen claimed everyone in the building with grading credibility looked at the book, and EVERYONE agreed it was trimmed. He couldn't find anyone to disagree."

Could this mean that "everyone in the building with grading credibility" was actually one person, at that specific date and time?

Or does it mean that everyone employed by CGC as a pre-grader, grader, or grading overseer, looked at this book and agreed that it was trimmed?

Could Spider Dan's writing above, actually be not quite correct in wording and recollection?

I would like Harshen or someone else in authority at CGC, to visit this thread and comment on this whole situation. I mean, besides the same ole "we will take another look at it". Because there have apparently been at least 9 looks at this book already. With six stating that it is not trimmed and three stating that it is trimmed.

Maybe it is vacation time at CGC, and they only have one person grading during vacation time?

Would you now buy this book at or near GPA?

I would not.

But years from now, someone will.

CGC

Great transaction. Paid quick and smooth. Nice communications also.

Yep. You just CAN NOT count on the number in the upper left corner of a slab, to actually represent what you are looking for.

It will probably be in the ball park. But the key word in that sentence, is "probably".

Best way to buy books in slabs (or raw for that matter). Is in person. Conventions and whatnot. Most internet sales of professionally graded books, do not allow the return of them. As they are professionally graded and encapsulated.

But, I'm preaching to the choir. Y'all knew that already.

I have been chasing the Denmark Edition for about a year I love artwork

 

Bat "Pigeon". Ha Ha

Reminds me of a book I have, that was in the back window of my sons car for a very long time.

Sun faded.

Is Neal giving you the finger? Is Neal giving us the finger?

Or just his way of holding a book still for signing?

Better late than never. Here are my two.

I know its a day early (due to work restrictions, and a Blackhawks game, I won't be able to post on 2/27), but I agree with the wrap sentiment...try this one for comparison.

 

 

And if you're going to have a party, you should have your friends there too...

 

Truly and sincerely!

Is a better investment to buy a 227 mid grade 6.5-7.5 or go higher 8.0 and up?

Then do it like this:

Is it a better investment to buy a 227 mid grade 6.5-7.5 or go higher 8.0 and up? (thumbs u

I already have a 9.0 pedigree copy, and an 8.0/8.5 raw copy.