This has the potential to change everything

[armydoc]

Check out what's brewing. It's just a matter of time until this spreads.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1874454&page=1#Post1874454

 

I love my SS books, but I just don't know about this. What do you guys think?

[Sharkey]

I would have very little interest in slabbed art (how big would a slab have to be to hold a twice up Kirby page? ), but I do think that authentication could become an important aspect to the hobby especially given the Fake Ditko Spidey page that was on ebay a few months ago. As more and more people move into art, and the money gets bigger, it's only a matter of time until the scams increase. There's fake art out on ebay frequently (Peanuts, Calvin & Hobbes, etc) and fools and their money will be parted.

 

Fortunately the stuff I collect (Kirby, Ditko) is pretty easy to authenticate, but as the money and stakes keep getting bigger I do worry that people will start going to great lengths to fake art and make a buck or 30,000.

 

But getting a slabbed and authenticated Con sketch? As the people in the thread point out, it's going to be for the flippers and will probably change the Con Sketch business dramatically.

 

I personally like having all my con sketches done in my hardbound sketch book, so buying a slabbed sketch wouldn't interest me. But it will probably be of interest to a lot of people who like that sort of thing. And it'll keep the pencil sketches from getting smudged. If people want to pay for it, and there's demand for it, then I don't see any problem with it -- except that an artist I want a sketch from might be bogged down doing these slabbed thingies.

 

Interesting -- thanks for pointing this out. I don't typically visit the signature area. I'm surprised they didn't cross post it here in OA just to get the topic into a larger discussion.

[CAP Freak]

good point Rhino.

[Jesusjon]

Oh whoops. I posted there but my comments are more applicable here:

 

I'm perfectly ambivalent about this. Whatever little sketches I get, I get for fun, just for myself, and not for resale. I get them only on my buckslips so I can't flip them anyhow

 

Much like graded comics, (I get comics only to read, and as art catalogs) it's just not a market I'm part of.

[CAP Freak]

I only get sketches to look at or frame in my room. I have never sold any OA or sketches. My favorites are Ayers, Mike Ploog, and JR JR. I have also never payed for a sketch.

[armydoc]

I just think this is an attempt to create a new product. I think that the fear that if "your sketch isn't SS, its a fake" is going to be marketed. I think this will hurt OA collectors.

[comix4fun]

I just think this is an attempt to create a new product. I think that the fear that if "your sketch isn't SS, its a fake" is going to be marketed. I think this will hurt OA collectors.

 

It is the very rare backing board sketch sized that is worth a large amount of money. The one's that are are of the caliber that the buyer is not relying on a slab for it's authenticity.

 

As well, for logisitical reasons, I don't see this entering the realm of higher end or more traditional OA ....those pieces from 11x14 to 14x20....slabbing pieces of this size would be a nightmare on the shipping, shipping cost, and storage arenas.

 

C

[Sharkey]

I only get sketches to look at or frame in my room. I have never sold any OA or sketches. My favorites are Ayers, Mike Ploog, and JR JR. I have also never payed for a sketch.

 

Have you scanned/posted these? I'd like to see them as they are all artists I like.

 

--Steve

[Sharkey]

I just think this is an attempt to create a new product. I think that the fear that if "your sketch isn't SS, its a fake" is going to be marketed. I think this will hurt OA collectors.

 

It is the very rare backing board sketch sized that is worth a large amount of money. The one's that are are of the caliber that the buyer is not relying on a slab for it's authenticity.

 

As well, for logisitical reasons, I don't see this entering the realm of higher end or more traditional OA ....those pieces from 11x14 to 14x20....slabbing pieces of this size would be a nightmare on the shipping, shipping cost, and storage arenas.

 

C

 

This is definitely a marketing concept, and it'll probably be successful. Regardless of what I think about it, there are collectors who will like having "authenticated" sig series sketches encased in plastic. Perhaps these will become the baseball cards of the day ("collect 'em all!" "swap them with your friends!" Just don't try to clothespin them to your bicycle spokes....)

 

Yeah, I can't see anybody slabbing actual OA pages (nor do I see CGC trying to turn slabs that size into a realistic production). There's this invention called the "Frame" that I hear is good for displaying this "art" stuff....

 

 

[armydoc]

I just think this is an attempt to create a new product. I think that the fear that if "your sketch isn't SS, its a fake" is going to be marketed. I think this will hurt OA collectors.

 

It is the very rare backing board sketch sized that is worth a large amount of money. The one's that are are of the caliber that the buyer is not relying on a slab for it's authenticity.

 

As well, for logisitical reasons, I don't see this entering the realm of higher end or more traditional OA ....those pieces from 11x14 to 14x20....slabbing pieces of this size would be a nightmare on the shipping, shipping cost, and storage arenas.

 

C

 

This is definitely a marketing concept, and it'll probably be successful. Regardless of what I think about it, there are collectors who will like having "authenticated" sig series sketches encased in plastic. Perhaps these will become the baseball cards of the day ("collect 'em all!" "swap them with your friends!" Just don't try to clothespin them to your bicycle spokes....)

 

Yeah, I can't see anybody slabbing actual OA pages (nor do I see CGC trying to turn slabs that size into a realistic production). There's this invention called the "Frame" that I hear is good for displaying this "art" stuff....

 

 

I agree that it will most likely be successful. Forget about ever getting a free/cheap con sketch again.

[Showponysydnee]

Yes, I agree this is definitely an attempt to create a new product and fill a specfic market niche. However, these are basically "quick" sketches that are being authenticated. Not high quality works of art. This should not make published Original Art any less desirable (IMO). However, since CGC is probably charging for this authentication process, I doubt many artists are going to render these sketches for free. Especially knowing that a majority will be sold within hours on eBay or somewhere else. Kind of reminds me of present day professional athletes and autographs. These days, more difficult to obtain now than before the age of sports collectibles and eBay. This concept will fall under the category of "whatever is made to be collectible, never will be", such as 15 different #1 covers (early 90's) etc. Which ruined comics for many.

[MedicAR]

The only thing I think it will really change is the free sketch. Once the artists start seeing their stuff being sold on eBay more and more, they'll ask themselves why they shouldn't be cut in on the deal and make more money too.

 

It is rare that I can make a convention, especially one that has the caliber of artists I would want something from. The SS books have helped me with authentic sigs, and this might help me with sketches. I generally have a board member (here or elsewhere) pick up a sketch for me, so authenticity is pretty much a given as far as I'm concerned. I haven't ever sold one and doubt that I ever will.

 

I have bought sketches on eBay, and will likely continue to do so. It's rare that I buy a sketch on there, and I'm picky about both artist and content. I always try to find the artist elsewhere first, as I would really rather give my money directly to them than to some middle man on eBay. Also, I usually ask to have the items personalized as a way of putting the artist at ease about what I plan to do with the art.

[Kevin Boyd]

As we discussed in the thread in the Signature Room, in order for the artwork to be encapsulated it must be magazine sized or smaller. CGC is not in the position to do anything larger than that and from what I've been told there are no plans to try doing anything larger.

 

So really, what this does affect is the con sketch or commission on paper that is magazine sized or smaller. This service is being introduced in a very limited manner at this time.

 

As well, the pieces are not graded, they are merely being encapsulated in the same inner well/outer case as CGC graded comics and magazines. The label will contain some information about the piece and have the same verification quality as a Signature Series book (but again, no grade).

[the blob]

somehow sketches outside the world of comic artists do not need to be encapsulated to make collectors happy, but in the land of comics.....

 

(All those people who, for years, got their books signed pre-SS, who didn't think about resale but now suddenly need to sell must be thrilled that SS has basically rendered all of their years of autographs into grafiti with a negative value on the book)

[Stronguy]

Well just see how things go. My prediction is you will see something along the lines of The Comic Monster start to pay people to stand in line and get sketches so they can be flipped. The true fan will have to stand behind the increased number of flippers and potentially never get a sketch, especially if the artist is hot. Artists will start to catch on to this behavior and change their sketching policy to disuade the flipper (ala Adam Hughes) -- fewer sketches.

 

In the end, it's the fan who loses out to the eBay flipper and to CGC... all who are just chasing the mighty dollar.

 

And Kevin, to address a couple of thing you said in the SS thread... the majority of the Captain America sketch books I've seen have all been sketched on for flipping purposes. It is a rare occasion to stand in an artist's line and hear not hear someone say something about selling the book they are going to have sketched on on eBay.

 

Also, I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to say artists will view this like they do slabbing books. Most of the artists/writers I've spoken to (and that's a bunch) either don't understand why someone would slab a book (mostly the older guys) or they think it's greedy (the yonger guys). I have never heard an artist say, yeah, that slabbing thing is really great and I hope more people do it.

[Kevin Boyd]

Well just see how things go. My prediction is you will see something along the lines of The Comic Monster start to pay people to stand in line and get sketches so they can be flipped. The true fan will have to stand behind the increased number of flippers and potentially never get a sketch, especially if the artist is hot. Artists will start to catch on to this behavior and change their sketching policy to disuade the flipper (ala Adam Hughes) -- fewer sketches.

 

In the end, it's the fan who loses out to the eBay flipper and to CGC... all who are just chasing the mighty dollar.

 

And Kevin, to address a couple of thing you said in the SS thread... the majority of the Captain America sketch books I've seen have all been sketched on for flipping purposes. It is a rare occasion to stand in an artist's line and hear not hear someone say something about selling the book they are going to have sketched on on eBay.

 

Also, I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to say artists will view this like they do slabbing books. Most of the artists/writers I've spoken to (and that's a bunch) either don't understand why someone would slab a book (mostly the older guys) or they think it's greedy (the yonger guys). I have never heard an artist say, yeah, that slabbing thing is really great and I hope more people do it.

 

The two Captain Americas I have aren't for sale. I know Oneasian collects them, as do others here on these boards. I do know many who get them done for flipping purposes though.

 

I can completely see this appealing to speculators and flippers. I'm not that naive. Nevertheless, CGC has decided to try it, and I'll support and we'll try to keep it as honest and fair as we can. Only our existing SS Witnesses can use the service at this time, or people that work with our existing Witnesses. Is Comic Monster a CGC Witness? I am not aware that he is.

 

I have heard artists support CGC grading and encapsulation. I know Dave Sim does support CGC grading, and Stuart Sayger submits books regularly. Aspen MLT recently began working with CGC, as does Top Cow. I recently signed Francis Manapul, Adrian Alphona and Kalman Andrasofszky's art rep up as a CGC account holder and SS rep --- paperwork is being processed even now. Other companies and creators do submit books.

 

 

[MedicAR]

And Kevin, to address a couple of thing you said in the SS thread... the majority of the Captain America sketch books I've seen have all been sketched on for flipping purposes. It is a rare occasion to stand in an artist's line and hear not hear someone say something about selling the book they are going to have sketched on on eBay.

 

That's sad. I can't get to a show to get a Fallen Son sketch, and can't (or won't) afford the flipper's prices. I'm thankful we have people on the boards here who do help out folks like me, but I can see where an artist might be apprehensive about doing sketches.

[grandz-migration]

When I first hear of this I was saddened. Saddened that a generous gift of a free sketch

would be turned into an assembly line like process, and the days of people being able to just

approach an artist for a quick sketch; either for themselves, or a small child will bite the dust.

 

I also thought to myself - the fun of getting a free sketch, be it on a backing board, or on a

70# piece of scratch paper, will now become a chore for people who just want a piece of the

con to remember their experience there. Is it really necessary for a third party to get their

hands into, and on, every aspect of human generosity, so they can make their bottom line?

There will no longer be free sketches from popular artist' who were doing so, because there

will be a rep. there to authenticate the sketch: and the rep. is not doing this for free.

 

Then I came to this conclusion - What will happen is the artist (I'm talking the published

well-known comic book artist) will charge for that free sketch an appropriate amount of money

when they see the realized amount of money their sketch(s) are getting on Ebay (a.k.a. Adam

Hughes). I have no problem with that.

 

If the artist is receiving payment for their sketch/drawing, good (most artist charge for their

sketches, or drawings anyway: I do).

If this sketch slabbing is designed to stop forged sketches/drawing,GREAT! But let's be real

here; the real reason is for CGC to get a share of the profits when a art recipient decides to sell

their art, and for getting art authenticated.

 

Something that bothers me about this is that the days of just being able to come to a con

and interacting with a artist is becoming bogged down by greed and red tape. People go

to conventions to escape being told what to do, and to escape the everyday job mentality.

They want to be able to freely interact with their favorite creator(s).

 

It will be interesting to see the response from people once this is in practice.

[WOXL]

I'm really curious to see how this all shakes out. One question - will an artist know if their sketch is going to be authenticated? If so, I can see many artists charging a larger fee if the sketch will be slabbed. Hopefully this will still allow for affordable sketches for those who want to hang on to them.

 

-Bob

[Dale Roberts]

So is CGC going to setup at every convention in the world? No sketch is authentic unless CGC certifies it. Are they actually going to grade original art pages? Better start looking through all those worthless piles of art all over conventions to find the ones with no bends and sharp corners. And heaven forbid if it has a blue line or white out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That would be restoration by the artist. This is a stupid idea and a bad move by CGC.