Wizard and OS are not the real price guides... Ebay is!

[Joanna]

I would also add "A well written auction as opposed to an all caps, misspelled mess with no information". I work really hard making my auctions inviting by writing as good an auction as I can. I know that in some cases this has led to a lot more bids (comparing similar items, but mine goes for a lot more). People bid for any number of reasons, especially when there are similar items.

 

You'd also need to add varying shipping charges, whether they charge handling or not, location, shipping method used, fast friendly service, feedback profile, payment options (paypal? M.O.? check? credit card?) and so on.

 

In short, there is no way to write a guide based on ebay. You can do your own research, and try to factor in some variables, but without personally interviewing each buyer as to why they bought that book at that price, it's just conjecture on your part.

 

-- Joanna

[lighthouse]

I would also add "A well written auction as opposed to an all caps, misspelled mess with no information". I work really hard making my auctions inviting by writing as good an auction as I can. I know that in some cases this has led to a lot more bids (comparing similar items, but mine goes for a lot more). People bid for any number of reasons, especially when there are similar items.

 

All too true Joanna...

 

I can just see this guide...

 

"Okay... listing was spelled correctly so add 3%... but the picture was grainy so subtract 12%... but the seller accepts payment via PayPal so add 7%... and the seller's average email response time is 6.32 working hours so add 2.3%... but the item ended at 3pm on a Wednesday so subtract 13%... but the seller made creative use of the words "lesbian bondage" so add 21%..."

 

I had two different bidders tell me the reason they bid on my Amazing Adventures auction was that I described Iron Man as dying from exposure to blue dirt... So we'd have to include a special blue dirt factor to the pricing.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

I would tend to agree with everyone else who is saying that a price guide based on eBay sales would be difficult to do and rather inaccurate.

 

Just a few thoughts as I was reading this thread.

 

1) How would you determine the price of a book that is so scarce on eBay that it comes up less than once a year? For example, the restored Action #1 that is on eBay right now. Should that one sale dictate the market price for that book?

 

2) There are many times when I would pay more for an item, but I don't have the funds. Say a book ended for $1000 for which I would be willing to pay $1500. The value to me (and perhaps hundreds of other collectors) would still be $1500.

 

3) Does anyone actually know what percentage of collectors/sellers use eBay as a primary marketplace for comic books? I say primary because a person who only occasionally uses eBay would probably be willing to pay much less online than going to a store.

 

If any of my ideas seem really stupid, please be gentle. I know some of you guys play kinda rough and I bruise easily.

[Shield]

 

2) There are many times when I would pay more for an item, but I don't have the funds. Say a book ended for $1000 for which I would be willing to pay $1500. The value to me (and perhaps hundreds of other collectors) would still be $1500.

 

Chuck, you hit the nail on the head by echoing one of my points. Say you'd pay $1500 for the item, and so would I. Now, another one becomes available and you already have your copy...you probably wouldn't go after the exact same thing again would you?

 

[valiantman]

I didn't make that claim either. Valiantman, by playing devil's advocate, said "Obviously, a good guide will have 10 or more sales per book." I was playing devil's advocate in return with my comments...

Who needs a guide at all when a book only shows up once or twice a year?

That's not a market... that's a snooze-fest.

To buy, or not to buy... that is the question... ahhh... wait til next year.

[joe_collector]

2) There are many times when I would pay more for an item, but I don't have the funds. Say a book ended for $1000 for which I would be willing to pay $1500. The value to me (and perhaps hundreds of other collectors) would still be $1500.

 

What the heck does this mean?

 

If you don't have the money, then you're not a qualified buyer and not even part of the equation. The real world could give a rat's butt what you "feel" is the value for a given book, and only cares what cold, hard cash you're willing to lay down.

[Darthdiesel]

gotta pay to play

[PovertyRow]

2) There are many times when I would pay more for an item, but I don't have the funds. Say a book ended for $1000 for which I would be willing to pay $1500. The value to me (and perhaps hundreds of other collectors) would still be $1500.

 

What the heck does this mean?

 

If you don't have the money, then you're not a qualified buyer and not even part of the equation. The real world could give a rat's butt what you "feel" is the value for a given book, and only cares what cold, hard cash you're willing to lay down.

 

It means we are talking about GUIDES - not catalogues. It means that the dealers across the country who give their input are ALSO not always backing their "values" with realized dollars but "what they think" based on the market conditions they observe.

 

I see nothing wrong with a collector applying the same market perception and experience and deriving their own "value" for a book.

[joe_collector]

gotta pay to play

 

"Well, I'd rate an Amazing Fantasy 15 in CGC 9.6 at around 2.5 million dollars, at least that's what I'd pay" slurred the drunken hobo on the corner...

 

Everyone update their Overstreets!!!

[joe_collector]

It means we are talking about GUIDES - not catalogues. It means that the dealers across the country who give their input are ALSO not always backing their "values" with realized dollars but "what they think" based on the market conditions they observe.

 

I see nothing wrong with a collector applying the same market perception and experience and deriving their own "value" for a book.

 

No fair, you edited your post!!

 

Now as for the above, this is extremely scary and outlines the problems with asking dealers for their "market reports". That's essentially how Chuck states he and some other dealers were able to manipulate OS prices without actually selling any books.

 

Price lists are NOT supposed to be "wishful thinking" crossed with overt market manipulation, but a record of VERIFIED SALES. Check the OS, that's what it says.

[PovertyRow]

It means we are talking about GUIDES - not catalogues. It means that the dealers across the country who give their input are ALSO not always backing their "values" with realized dollars but "what they think" based on the market conditions they observe.

 

I see nothing wrong with a collector applying the same market perception and experience and deriving their own "value" for a book.

 

No fair, you edited your post!!

 

Now as for the above, this is extremely scary and outlines the problems with asking dealers for their "market reports". That's essentially how Chuck states he and some other dealers were able to manipulate OS prices without actually selling any books.

 

Price lists are NOT supposed to be "wishful thinking" crossed with overt market manipulation, but a record of VERIFIED SALES. Check the OS, that's what it says.

 

Well first of all - I did not edit that post! Not sure why you would say I did.

 

Second of all, do you honestly believe that every price in every grade of every title and every issue number listed in OS is the result of a VERIFIED SALE? I mean, honestly. And to carry it one step further, how many verified sales of every grade of every title and every issue number do you think could possibly be submitted?

 

I mean, honestly, joe.

[joe_collector]

Well first of all - I did not edit that post! Not sure why you would say I did.

 

Come on, the original made the mistake of stating he wanted to bid $1500, but actualy won for $1000. You probably read the "have no funds" part and changed it.

 

Second of all, do you honestly believe that every price in every grade of every title and every issue number listed in OS is the result of a VERIFIED SALE? I mean, honestly. And to carry it one step further, how many verified sales of every grade of every title and every issue number do you think could possibly be submitted?

 

Of course not, but that the problem. Dealers are allowed to pick prices out of thin air, with no backup and simply send them to Overstreet. It's kind of a joke, and that's one reason we have so many joke listings in the OS, and why some dealers have been manipulating the market for years.

 

You seem to think fictitious sales are a good thing, especially in light of OS stating that all data is based on verified sales. Yeah, verified by a big fat guy sitting on a stack of the same comics.

[greggy]

Mmmm....like when the love 100 pagers doubled in the guide one year and went down the next by around 40%. Damn Overstreet killed the market!

[PovertyRow]

OK - as far as the edits go - Joe - I have absolutely NO IDEA what the hell you are talking about. I actually QUOTED the damned post. Are you intending to be addressing ths to the original poster??????????

 

As far as "Dealers are allowed to pick prices out of thin air, with no backup and simply send them to Overstreet. It's kind of a joke, and that's one reason we have so many joke listings in the OS, and why some dealers have been manipulating the market for years." - you are actually making my point. You damn someone for using what they have seen in the market and saying "I don' have the 1500 but if I did I would pay it" by telling them "The real world could give a rat's butt what you "feel" is the value for a given book, and only cares what cold, hard cash you're willing to lay down."

 

I really am not getting you, JC.

[joe_collector]

I really am not getting you, JC.

 

What's not to get?

 

Here in the real world, prices are based on market forces, or the going rate at which consumers will trade their hard-earned dollars for items. It's not a "if wishes were fishes" child's game involving fantasy money, but the reality of laying down actual cash in exchange for comics.

 

By your logic, we should base real estate values on your latest game of Monopoly.

[duncan36]

I don't believe that an eBay comic book price guide would be a profitable operation. I don't believe the customer base is adequate. I don't believe an appropriate marketing plan exists. I don't believe there is an opportunity to garner enough market share to make it worthwhile for the investors. The data collection process is too labor-intensive and the product is too difficult to sell. A printed guide would be as large as the Overstreet and would need to be released every couple of weeks. An online guide would be of no use at conventions and retail stores.

 

If whoever does the priceguide has access to eBay's system it wouldnt take much at all to hammer out a decent filter to get what information you needed.

As far as the Mexican food analogy goes, it gave me the farts.

I see your point but I also see that eBay is sitting on a goldmine of information, I cant beleive it wont be used sooner or later.

 

I realize that many people are happier with the out of touch and inflated prices of OS and Wizard, but the consumer would stand to benefit greatly from an eBay price guide.

 

Overstreet and Wizard are too loyal to dealers to ever publish this information it'll have to come down to eBay to publish it, like I said before however eBay has too many other ways to make easy money so I'm not holding my breath. Hope springs eternal though.

[PovertyRow]

Here in the real world, prices are based on market forces, or the going rate at which consumers will trade their hard-earned dollars for items.

 

Yes, and if the $1000 buyer had the extra $500 they WOULD have traded those hard earned dollars. For that wishful buyer, $1500 IS the going rate.

 

We have two scenarios here:

 

1) a buyer who has been looking for a book sufficiently to appreciate what he can get it for and also make a determination that x-price is valid, even if, today, he cannot afford it.

 

2) sellers who make up prices based on what they have seen in the market and extrapolate form that prices for books they have not sold.

 

You keep lecturing us that the prices being realized are ridiculous and artificially infalted by ill-informed wishful thinkers. Yet, when a well-informed wishful thinker doesn;t have enough money to back up his own conclusion that a book is really worth more than he has, well, he is suddenly not a part of "real life". But the but the ill-informed ones who pay ridiculous sums are. Again, I do not get you.

[joe_collector]

Yes, and if the $1000 buyer had the extra $500 they WOULD have traded those hard earned dollars. For that wishful buyer, $1500 IS the going rate.

 

In his disillusioned mind, perhaps, but not in the real world. The ONLY way to prove your intent to buy is to actually lay the money down. Anything else is pure fantasy enjoyed by children and drunks.

 

Oh I woulda, coulda, mighta,

 

If you don't believe me, try it sometime.

 

Walk into a real estate office, and state that although you have no money, you feel that the soon-to-be-listed house with an appraised value of $200K is really worth $350K. Security will be called and you'll be escorted out.

 

Walk in with a certified check for $350K, they all stand at attention, and if accepted, the market rates in the neighborhood will be influenced.

 

One involves real money, and the other is some fool with holes in his pockets.

[PovertyRow]

Yes, and if the $1000 buyer had the extra $500 they WOULD have traded those hard earned dollars. For that wishful buyer, $1500 IS the going rate.

 

In his disillusioned mind, perhaps, but not in the real world. The ONLY way to prove your intent to buy is to actually lay the money down. Anything else is pure fantasy enjoyed by children and drunks.

 

Oh I woulda, coulda, mighta,

 

If you don't believe me, try it sometime.

 

Walk into a real estate office, and state that although you have no money, you feel that the soon-to-be-listed house with an appraised value of $200K is really worth $350K. Security will be called and you'll be escorted out.

 

Walk in with a certified check for $350K, they all stand at attention, and if accepted, the market rates in the neighborhood will be influenced.

 

One involves real money, and the other is some fool with holes in his pockets.

 

Whenever you argue with me you choose the leat to address and ignore the real core of things. Why is that? I posted a LOT more than you quited and you chose the easy way out.

[fantastic_four]

Whenever you argue with me you choose the leat to address and ignore the real core of things. Why is that? I posted a LOT more than you quited and you chose the easy way out.

 

It's not just when he argues with you...welcome to the "screw the truth, I just wanna be right" style of debate. Frustrating, isn't it?