Heritage Auctions - How is this possible?

[Norrin_Radd]

I've never looked at the live internet bidding (my non-live bids have always held). If Heritage does list something I want in the future, I'll definately just look to snipe it in the live bidding and not even bother with non-live bidding.

 

Do they list a schedule of exact times the lots will go up for live bidding?

[brasseye]

all this makes my head hurt, I don't like jumping through hoops just to win a book.

 

I'm done with all Heritage "signature" auctions, may still bid on "internet only" ones in the future.

 

 

good luck to the rest of you.

 

:golfclap:

[Ze-man]

Lack of information is key here.

 

The closing of internet bidding stages - normal and legacy are irrelevant - the Live bidding process on the internet allows for proxy bids to be left till the start of the floor process anyway.

 

So there is no advantage other than a lack of knowledge of options available.

 

Lack of information of the various options has created a variety of deadlines to stimulate bidding.

 

Done on purpose

 

 

Thanks George. This is so incredibly obvious I just can`t understand why people are making such a mountain out of a molehill. If Heritage allowed Legacy bidders an additional opportunity to trump all live bids, my reaction would be completely different. But the fact is that everyone who bids via internet, Legacy or not, gets trumped by the live floor bidding which is open to everyone with a phone or internet connection. So an additional 10 hours of internet bidding time is just a way for Heritage to make their Legacy customers feel good while actually not helping them one bit.

 

I agree Tim, phoning in a bid or being there in person will obviouly always win out. The Internet and Legacy bidding simply allows people to bid their max amount in the hopes that it does not get outbid once it goes live. And if it does get outbid, those doing the live bidding are having to pay top dollar(in most cases) for the item they want.

 

Nothing to see here, move along people.

 

 

Ze-

[comix4fun]

I just don't see how it happened, that's all. I guess one can bid by phone or email - I just assumed those people would be waiting until the live floor bidding began - it's odd that a bid was emailed or phoned in at midnight on a work night for a insignificant book.

 

I guess when you're bidding against the house, anything's possible.

A legacy client can continue to bid on the internet, just like you did, until the deadline for legacy internet bidding expires. When your remaining time says "10 hours", his might say "1 day 10 hours". So no phone, email or conspiracies.

 

This sort of Bull is why I avoid Heritage

 

 

Is it really Bull mess ? If you go to Vegas regularly and bring $50 grand to gamble they are going to comp your room, fly you out there and send a limo to pick you up.

 

If you go to Vegas and play nickel slots once every 10 years they probably don't have much reason to do anything extra for you.

 

This is a pretty common practice in the world of business, the bigger the client the bigger the fringe benefits and larger the deference they are given.

 

Legacy bidders spend at numbers that place them at the very top of the pyramid, given them an extra few hours to bid can mean 10-30% more on the bottom line without much effort.

 

If you ran a business you would do the same thing I would think. I know I would.

 

C

[Shield]

Lack of information is key here.

 

The closing of internet bidding stages - normal and legacy are irrelevant - the Live bidding process on the internet allows for proxy bids to be left till the start of the floor process anyway.

 

So there is no advantage other than a lack of knowledge of options available.

 

Lack of information of the various options has created a variety of deadlines to stimulate bidding.

 

Done on purpose

 

 

Thanks George. This is so incredibly obvious I just can`t understand why people are making such a mountain out of a molehill. If Heritage allowed Legacy bidders an additional opportunity to trump all live bids, my reaction would be completely different. But the fact is that everyone who bids via internet, Legacy or not, gets trumped by the live floor bidding which is open to everyone with a phone or internet connection. So an additional 10 hours of internet bidding time is just a way for Heritage to make their Legacy customers feel good while actually not helping them one bit.

 

I agree Tim, phoning in a bid or being there in person will obviouly always win out. The Internet and Legacy bidding simply allows people to bid their max amount in the hopes that it does not get outbid once it goes live. And if it does get outbid, those doing the live bidding are having to pay top dollar(in most cases) for the item they want.

 

Nothing to see here, move along people.

 

 

Ze-

 

Nothing to see here? I wasn't aware of the "legacy accounts" and I'm sure many other people weren't either. I'm just a collector bidding on some books from Heritage and I knew full well that there was going to be a live floor auction.

 

I didn't expect by winning the "Internet Bidding" I'd magically be outbid before the live floor bidding started. If that's "nothing to see" then we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Shield]

I just don't see how it happened, that's all. I guess one can bid by phone or email - I just assumed those people would be waiting until the live floor bidding began - it's odd that a bid was emailed or phoned in at midnight on a work night for a insignificant book.

 

I guess when you're bidding against the house, anything's possible.

A legacy client can continue to bid on the internet, just like you did, until the deadline for legacy internet bidding expires. When your remaining time says "10 hours", his might say "1 day 10 hours". So no phone, email or conspiracies.

 

This sort of Bull is why I avoid Heritage

 

 

Is it really Bull mess ? If you go to Vegas regularly and bring $50 grand to gamble they are going to comp your room, fly you out there and send a limo to pick you up.

 

If you go to Vegas and play nickel slots once every 10 years they probably don't have much reason to do anything extra for you.

 

This is a pretty common practice in the world of business, the bigger the client the bigger the fringe benefits and larger the deference they are given.

 

Legacy bidders spend at numbers that place them at the very top of the pyramid, given them an extra few hours to bid can mean 10-30% more on the bottom line without much effort.

 

If you ran a business you would do the same thing I would think. I know I would.

 

C

 

I'm not saying I disagree with certain people getting perks. It's just I couldn't find any information about it on the website.

 

Consider the facts as I know them:

1. Heritage employees can bid on their own auctions

2. Heritage "bumps" auctions up to 1 bid below the reserve automatically.

 

When the Internet bidding ended at 11:00 and I was still the high bidder at 11:15, I didn't expect that 12:30 A.M. I'd be outbid. I asked a question and people who knew the "system" came forward and explained.

 

I just like knowing all the rules before I pull out my wallet - how is that wrong?

[comix4fun]

Also, to encourage bidding, they start every auction at $1.00. Then, 5 days before the end of the auction, they reveal the reserve on the book if there is one. That's not a huge problem.

 

The problem that I found is in that same time period (5 days before the end of the auction), they also bid up all of the reserve books to just under the reserve, so that the next bid will meet reserve.

 

It's kind of a sneaky way to encourage bidding and basically shill bid under the reserve price.

 

 

This might sound odd. But I appreciate this practice. They place an asterisk next to the item's price if the "next bid meets reserve".

 

This lets me know:

#1 That if I bid on this item I will not lose it to a hidden reserve.

#2 The asterisk let's me know that there is no actual bid just below the reserve so there is no phantom pressure from an underbidder.

#3 I can still place bids early, and by doing so I get a daily email with my bidding status so that I can see how many people are bidding and watching the item I am bidding on on a daily basis, even if a low ball marker bid is outbid immediately I still get that daily update.

#4 It's is made crystal clear that they are not "shilling the auction" by the use of the asterisk and their terms of sale.....it saves me the time and effort and bidding on a book that has a hidden reserve only to find out after the bidding is over that I fell short of the reserve.

 

This has been the most helpful innovation they have instituted.

 

C

[Ze-man]

Lack of information is key here.

 

The closing of internet bidding stages - normal and legacy are irrelevant - the Live bidding process on the internet allows for proxy bids to be left till the start of the floor process anyway.

 

So there is no advantage other than a lack of knowledge of options available.

 

Lack of information of the various options has created a variety of deadlines to stimulate bidding.

 

Done on purpose

 

 

Thanks George. This is so incredibly obvious I just can`t understand why people are making such a mountain out of a molehill. If Heritage allowed Legacy bidders an additional opportunity to trump all live bids, my reaction would be completely different. But the fact is that everyone who bids via internet, Legacy or not, gets trumped by the live floor bidding which is open to everyone with a phone or internet connection. So an additional 10 hours of internet bidding time is just a way for Heritage to make their Legacy customers feel good while actually not helping them one bit.

 

I agree Tim, phoning in a bid or being there in person will obviouly always win out. The Internet and Legacy bidding simply allows people to bid their max amount in the hopes that it does not get outbid once it goes live. And if it does get outbid, those doing the live bidding are having to pay top dollar(in most cases) for the item they want.

 

Nothing to see here, move along people.

 

 

Ze-

 

Nothing to see here? I wasn't aware of the "legacy accounts" and I'm sure many other people weren't either. I'm just a collector bidding on some books from Heritage and I knew full well that there was going to be a live floor auction.

 

I didn't expect by winning the "Internet Bidding" I'd magically be outbid before the live floor bidding started. If that's "nothing to see" then we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Neither was I Shield as I am have not bought from Heritage before. But after reading Tim's, Rick's, 1koko's and others explanations of how the system works it all made sense. Hence the "nothing to see here" comment. It was meant as more of a comment about what was asked was logically explained away.

 

Perhaps I should have used another closing comment as to not diminish the information/explanations contained here.

 

Carry on

 

 

Ze-

 

 

 

[Norrin_Radd]

all this makes my head hurt, I don't like jumping through hoops just to win a book.

 

It's like Fight Club. Bidding will go on as long as it has to!

[thedude]

all this makes my head hurt, I don't like jumping through hoops just to win a book.

 

It's like Fight Club. Bidding will go on as long as it has to!

 

well then more power to ya buddy.

[Shield]

 

Neither was I Shield as I am have not bought from Heritage before. But after reading Tim's, Rick's, 1koko's and others explanations of how the system works it all made sense. Hence the "nothing to see here" comment. It was meant as more of a comment about what was asked was logically explained away.

 

Perhaps I should have used another closing comment as to not diminish the information/explanations contained here.

 

Carry on

 

 

Ze-

 

 

 

 

I just don't want to be labeled as a card-carrying member of the tin foil hat society. I'm just trying to figure out who all I might be bidding against!

Shawn

[Norrin_Radd]

all this makes my head hurt, I don't like jumping through hoops just to win a book.

 

It's like Fight Club. Bidding will go on as long as it has to!

 

well then more power to ya buddy.

 

Not me. I'm not bidding on anything. I was refering to the house rules. Heritage wants to drag things out and maximize bids as much as possible.

[Point Five]

I've never looked at the live internet bidding (my non-live bids have always held). If Heritage does list something I want in the future, I'll definately just look to snipe it in the live bidding and not even bother with non-live bidding.

 

Do they list a schedule of exact times the lots will go up for live bidding?

Just found the answer...

[Mr. Zipper]

If you go to Vegas regularly and bring $50 grand to gamble they are going to comp your room, fly you out there and send a limo to pick you up.

 

If you go to Vegas and play nickel slots once every 10 years they probably don't have much reason to do anything extra for you.

 

This is a pretty common practice in the world of business, the bigger the client the bigger the fringe benefits and larger the deference they are given.

 

I don't think the analogy works in the case of an auction. IMO, an ethical auction means that all participants are subject to the same rules. Going back your gambling analogy, what Heritage is doing is not giving the high rollers a limo and a free meal -- they are giving the high rollers an extra card to play! Certainly you won't see any casinos giving their high rollers unfair advantages at the tables.

 

Legacy bidders spend at numbers that place them at the very top of the pyramid, given them an extra few hours to bid can mean 10-30% more on the bottom line without much effort.

 

Why? If they are so loaded, why do they need to wait after hours to get in what is, in effect, an after-the-bell-has-rung snipe bid?

 

Let them bid under the same rules as everyone else. If Heritage wants to treat them special in some way, give them free overnight shipping or comp their room and meal for the live auction.

[1koko]

However there is still time for a legacy bidder to be outbid by anyone using the live service - it allows max bids before the start of the floor session.

 

A more logical system would be just to have the standard bidding service till just before t he live session and therefore negate various perceived advantage/disadvantages.

 

Deadlines however provoke high bids:

 

Normal internet bidders bidding against each other to their deadline.

 

Legacy bidders bidding against each other to the legacy deadline.

 

Live internet bidders putting proxy bids in before the proxy deadline.

 

Then finally floor bidders vs E-bay live vs HA Live bidders

 

 

 

 

 

[Goonchild-migration]

If you go to Vegas regularly and bring $50 grand to gamble they are going to comp your room, fly you out there and send a limo to pick you up.

 

If you go to Vegas and play nickel slots once every 10 years they probably don't have much reason to do anything extra for you.

 

This is a pretty common practice in the world of business, the bigger the client the bigger the fringe benefits and larger the deference they are given.

 

I don't think the analogy works in the case of an auction. IMO, an ethical auction means that all participants are subject to the same rules. Going back your gambling analogy, what Heritage is doing is not giving the high rollers a limo and a free meal -- they are giving the high rollers an extra card to play! Certainly you won't see any casinos giving their high rollers unfair advantages at the tables.

 

Legacy bidders spend at numbers that place them at the very top of the pyramid, given them an extra few hours to bid can mean 10-30% more on the bottom line without much effort.

 

Why? If they are so loaded, why do they need to wait after hours to get in what is, in effect, an after-the-bell-has-rung snipe bid?

 

Let them bid under the same rules as everyone else. If Heritage wants to treat them special in some way, give them free overnight shipping or comp their room and meal for the live auction.

 

[Goonchild-migration]

 

Neither was I Shield as I am have not bought from Heritage before. But after reading Tim's, Rick's, 1koko's and others explanations of how the system works it all made sense. Hence the "nothing to see here" comment. It was meant as more of a comment about what was asked was logically explained away.

 

Perhaps I should have used another closing comment as to not diminish the information/explanations contained here.

 

Carry on

 

 

Ze-

 

 

 

 

I just don't want to be labeled as a card-carrying member of the tin foil hat society. I'm just trying to figure out who all I might be bidding against!

Shawn

 

 

Why not?

If the Tin-Foil hat fits.....

[The Black Hand ®]

Yet another reason to dislike Heritage. Throw it on the pile.

Yes, giving your bigger customers additional benefits is such a unique, evil thing to do. I can't imagine any other company in the world does that.

 

Actually, you're right and all the other companies who engage in that behavior suck just as bad.Just because favoritism and cronyism is common, does not make it less ugly. All the bidders like Shield are doing, is pumping up the bid total for the floor auction. I only bid on the live internet only auction and not the ones that go to the floor and very rarely now do I even bother to bid on heritage, in fact It's been 7 or 8 months since I have used them. I don't trust Heritage or those employed by them all that much.

[1koko]

Agree - as a Legacy client I have never bid during the "Legacy" period.

 

Why enter into a bidding war prior to the floor session.

 

When I've wanted a book badly (the Tec#1) my max bid went in seconds after the opening of the auction.

 

A real advantage for legacy bidders would to be able to bid at a preview stage

[Shield]

Yet another reason to dislike Heritage. Throw it on the pile.

Yes, giving your bigger customers additional benefits is such a unique, evil thing to do. I can't imagine any other company in the world does that.

 

Actually, you're right and all the other companies who engage in that behavior suck just as bad.Just because favoritism and cronyism is common, does not make it less ugly. All the bidders like Shield are doing, is pumping up the bid total for the floor auction. I only bid on the live internet only auction and not the ones that go to the floor and very rarely now do I even bother to bid on heritage, in fact It's been 7 or 8 months since I have used them. I don't trust Heritage or those employed by them all that much.

 

So, let's pretend this was one of Heritage's Internet ONLY auctions. You bid on and won (or so you thought) a book and confirmed it well after the hammer dropped.

Then you login the next day and were outbid. How would you feel then?