SA ARTIST SURVIVOR SERIES: RD.17

[selegue]

I know its a Favorite contest. But honestly Im not voting that way.

 

Actually, thinking about it, I dont think this elimination format is best process for that result since we keep voting for LEAST favorite, and thats not the same thing. We'd have to always vote for MOST favorite, and the one with the fewest vots gets kicked off. That way we end up with the artists to whom the majority like best.

 

or, we all fill out our ballots in advance, favorites from #1 to 25 and the moderator reveals the voting one place at a time as we discuss it step by step. We also would eliminate changed votes as a result of what we say here each round.

 

Nah.

The fun of the game is the artwork posted for persuasion. Repeating "Are you crazy? Everyone knows that Jones is the best (or worst)" doesn't do much for me.

 

I voted for Kubert early on the basis of his most common work, the sketchy war and jungle stories. Once I was reminded how much I like some of his other, mostly earlier, work, I stopped voting for him for a while. If nothing were at stake (the votes already in), people wouldn't bother to promote their favorites.

 

In a different contest, maybe "campaigning" folllowed by a single round of voting would work. Would the results be different? Good question.

 

Jack

[selegue]

I'm seriously drunk ,

 

 

 

Then what are you doing posting here? Head over to ebay and start bidding!

 

Jack

 

 

but it's still time for BA Adams to go

[rza808]

Seems pretty obvious to me that there is a Marvel bias in the voting. But come to think of it the Silver Age really happened because of Marvel. I doubt very much that DC could ever have revived the super hero (and the comic book industry) if Stan, Kirby and Co. hadn't shifted comics from the 12 year old reader to the 14 - 18 year old crowd. And since Kirby and Ditko defined Marvel they are in my book the two most important Silver Age artists. I don't see this poll as being about who the best artist is or even who had the most influence on other artists but rather who defined the period and for me that's Kirby and Ditko hands down (although I must say that even at the time I couldn't understand why I liked Ditko, I recognized that he wasn't really a very good artist but he had such an eccentric style and that two finger hand pose that he used for Spidey and Doc and the strange way he drew bums was all so right ...). That being said I have an appreciation for Kubert that I didn't get until a decade later. The only word I can think of to describe his work is elegant or maybe laconic, like Gary Cooper or Henry Fonda. But even though he was a defining DC artist of the period, War comics and Hawkman are not what made the Silver Age. Then there's Sterenko. While I agree that his output was slight compared to the others, I loved him then and still do. In a way he seemed to gather up the essence of the Silver Age and distill it. Sure he started out channeling Kirby but follow his work on the SHIELD books and its really unbelievable how quickly he developed a style uniquely his own. To me he is the perfect culmination of the Silver Age ethos. Oops, sorry to make this sound like an undergrad essay but doggon it where else can I talk comics without someone holding up a crucifix and a handful of garlic. Anyway for me its Kirby, Ditko, and then I still don't know, Sterenko or Kubert.

 

You've come to the right place to make your comments, although I did have to look up what "laconic" meant.

 

Let's face it, we have a top 5 of giants. I'm not a rabid Steranko fan--but appreciate his creativity.

 

The Silver Age ranges over a long time period, and it had several distinct stages, and some of these artists are from totally different periods. First, there was the great DC flowering of superheros and adventure comics from 1956-1961. The giants of this period were Infantino, Anderson, Kane, and Kubert. Then came the great early Marvel years (1962-65), which added characterization and personality to superheroes, with Ditko and Kirby defining the period. DC basically ignored this trend, and stuck to one-dimensional heros. Then you had the Age of Marvel (1966-1969) which added "realism" and social themes to comics, with Adams and Steranko and Buscema coming to the fore. DC finally began to change and started to follow the Marvel lead.

 

So when you talk about an artist being Silver Age, you can mean different things. I'm a big fan of the first two SA periods, not so much the late 60's. That's probably why my top three would be Kirby, Kubert, and Ditko, in that order.

 

 

 

There is only a Marvel bias because Marvel comics were so much better than DC comics in the time period discussed.

 

Joe Kubert would never make my top 3 and not even my top 5 because I simply don't enjoy the majority of his art enough to warrant it. He is a good artist. A solid artist. But completely unspectacular. Never did a sequence of art anywhere nearly as good as Amazing Spider-man #33 by Ditko. Not even close.

 

Steranko is great, but he really didn't do enough to warrant still being in the contest. Adams did over 100 covers and several books and almost single handedly brought DC back to relevance. Steranko did about 10 covers, about 15 books and is still in.

 

Seems to me there is a bias against Neal Adams.

I'd have to agree. Very similar to what happened to Kirby in GA poll. Since everyone knew he'd win SA they didnt care if he survived GA. Everyone knows Adams will be there BA so they vote him off SA with little worry. S'ok I guess

[TheShadowKnows]

I dont understand how many think in this poll.By saying you take away Ditkos spider-man he did nothing.There was Dr Strange and many many pre hero stories.Also Hawk and Dove,Creeper and many others.

If we are to use this logic where would Kubert be without Sgt Rock?Steranko without Nick Fury,Kirby without the Fantastic Four.But you get my point.

[*paull*]

In my opinion, pre-hero stories don't really count toward the Marvel Silver Age. Anything pre-FF #1 and pre-AF #15 doesn't affect my voting regarding Marvel artists.

[-cryptkeeper-]

Time to go for Joe Kubert

[Dale Roberts]

In my opinion, pre-hero stories don't really count toward the Marvel Silver Age. Anything pre-FF #1 and pre-AF #15 doesn't affect my voting regarding Marvel artists.

 

Well, I can respect that as your opinion, but it doesn't make it right. By your logic, Challengers by Kirby, early Showcase books, early Brave & the Bolds by Joe Kubert, and tons of other stuff are not Silver Age. All of this stuff is post Golden Age and falls after Showcase #4 which is generally regarded as the start of the Silver Age.

 

Simply refusing to acknowledge the truth doesn't make it any less true.

[*paull*]

I'm only referring to SA Marvels in this case, not DC. I don't count anything pre-FF1 or pre-AF15. It may be a minority opinion, I understand.

[Red Hook]

I have to go wih Steranko this time, everyone else had such a huge body of work, and in the case of Adams, his DC cover work & late silver panel work just was too important.

 

I had to agree. Love Steranko, but just not enough of an oeuvre.

[JohnT]

Joe Kubert would never make my top 3 and not even my top 5 because I simply don't enjoy the majority of his art enough to warrant it. He is a good artist. A solid artist. But completely unspectacular. Never did a sequence of art anywhere nearly as good as Amazing Spider-man #33 by Ditko. Not even close.

 

Is this not spectacular...?

 

[Dr. K]

Joe Kubert would never make my top 3 and not even my top 5 because I simply don't enjoy the majority of his art enough to warrant it. He is a good artist. A solid artist. But completely unspectacular. Never did a sequence of art anywhere nearly as good as Amazing Spider-man #33 by Ditko. Not even close.

 

Is this not spectacular...?

 

 

Has anyone got some of Kubert's Brave and Bold Hawkman covers handy? When it comes to telling a graphic story few can beat Joe. Of course he studied at the foot of the master - Will Eisner.

[tth2]

Has anyone got some of Kubert's Brave and Bold Hawkman covers handy?

Yessiree.

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

Somebody with a copy of Amazing Spider-man Annual #1, please post some of the pages out of that book. It has the greatest interior splashes of any book in history.

 

Look, I never said that Kubert is not good. Clearly he is good. But none of those covers approaches a Neal Adams quality cover. None of them approach Ditkos best work. By the way, I have already acknowledge somewhere in one of these threads that Kubert early Brave & the Bold stuff was excellent, and in my opinion, his best work.

[adamstrange]

There's only one situation that I know of where Adams wanted to follow on after what someone else was doing and that was Kubert's Enemy Ace. That's why SSWS 144 has Adams penciling an Enemy Ace story. Kubert is not Adams but he could do things that Adams couldn't and Neal respected him for that.

 

Ditko was an excellent designer/concept guy who had an artistic peak of about 1 year on Spidey that included the great story arc in 31-33. Kubert drew stories like that time after time like "The Rock and the Wall", "What's the price of a B-17" and "The Silent Ones" in war comics besides the Enemy Ace, Viking Prince and Hawkman.

[TheShadowKnows]

AS,

All my point was about was to take all of each artists volume of work.Not only was Ditko a great artist but a great part of the founding trio for Marvel,along with Lee and Kirby.

And about a 1 year peak we will have to disagree about that.

Dennis

[TheShadowKnows]

ps I think Kubert is also a very good artist.

[Dale Roberts]

AS,

All my point was about was to take all of each artists volume of work.Not only was Ditko a great artist but a great part of the founding trio for Marvel,along with Lee and Kirby.

And about a 1 year peak we will have to disagree about that.

Dennis

 

Yeah, I will disagree with that as well. Every issue of Spider-man between about #14 and #38 are just spectacular books and the art just continued to get better later in the run. His panel work was tremendous and the splashes are as well. This is not even mentioning the Strange Tales issues, the Hulk run he did in TTA, his DC work, his Charlton work (both Horror and hero)...Wow, no wonder the poor man has gone into seclusion.

[JohnT]

Somebody with a copy of Amazing Spider-man Annual #1, please post some of the pages out of that book. It has the greatest interior splashes of any book in history.

 

Which I owned that one!

 

Ditko's in my top three. And as great as he was on Spidey, he was maybe even more perfectly suited to Dr. Strange. Here's a splash from one of those stories:

 

[JohnT]

Has anyone got some of Kubert's Brave and Bold Hawkman covers handy? When it comes to telling a graphic story few can beat Joe. Of course he studied at the foot of the master - Will Eisner.

 

I posted this one a few rounds back...

 

[adamstrange]

AS,

All my point was about was to take all of each artists volume of work.Not only was Ditko a great artist but a great part of the founding trio for Marvel,along with Lee and Kirby.

And about a 1 year peak we will have to disagree about that.

Dennis

 

I've loved Ditko since I was a little kid reading (or, in his words, desecrating) my brother's comics. He's absolutely crucial to Marvel being what it is today, along with Kirby and Lee. Everyone is free to vote for their favorite artist and I highly encourage that. We can all disagree with our view of the aesthetic qualities of artists. You will only rarely see me post something negative about an artist without putting it in context because these guys sweated at their boards for little money and even fewer thanks. But I've read every Marvel comic Ditko drew multiple times and much of his other work from 1954 on and I think there's a clear high point in his work from about issue 20 to 33 in Amazing Spiderman (there was similar quality, btw, in his Dr Strange at this time). Prior to that his work was not near as skilled or as exciting as those issues and his work after that shows less imagination and finesse with a brush. I wish Ditko always drew like that but only with his Warren b&w wash work did he, IMHO, exhibit the same level of skill.