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Do You Feel The Church Books Being Stored in Stacks

Started by PovertyRow,

597 posts in this topic

Tarzan_Geek

Tarzan_Geek

Posted
Posted

I did come on to bait you, but not in order to defend my husband so much as to make fun of what I perceive to be just plain absurd. In other words, it is my opinion that your posting style is just plain absurd. I'm truly sorry if that offends you, but ... it is what it is. You seem to like dishing it out, but you just don't seem to know how to take any of it in return. I'm sure you're also a wonderful person in real life yada yada yada ...

 

 

So you did come on with the purpose of baiting me. That was pretty apparent.

 

Nothing you've done offends me. And as soon as you post something that actually references the issues being discussed in the thread, and stop baiting me, I'd be happy to discuss.

 

 

Yes, I did come on to bait you. I just couldn't help myself ... you're pretty irresistible at times. woot.gif

 

 

As soon as your posts start becoming reasonable and intelligent, I would love to discuss some of the issues with you.

 

Okay. Rewind!

 

Issues:

 

1. Undisclosed pressing is fraudulent activity.

2. More than the spot pressing of covers (ie disassembly pressing) falls under the category of restoration.

3. Most of the gripes expressed in this thread regarding NOD come from people with personal animosities towards a member or two in NOD.

4. Pressing is not a dark art. Trying to convince people it is, is based on a sense of territoriality and greed.

5. NOD has a very simple set of guidelines they ask all members to follow when joining. People are free to join or not. But if they join, they agree to follow the guidelines. They are also free to advocate change of those very guidelines from within.

 

Finally, you may not like my style, you may not like the sarcasm. But I'm not being anything but honest with you. I'm not trying to waste your time or mine. I've been an opponent of undisclosed pressing for going on five years, since I asked Jason Ewert straight on whether he pressed books, and was lied to. I have much less patience with being danced with than I used to. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

So please, take your pick of those issues, or throw out a couple of your own.

 

This is the most amazingly reasonable post I've read from you in a while, thanks! (thumbs u

 

Please keep in mind that the following are merely my opinions:

 

1. I believe the term "fraudulent" is a little strong considering the fact that pressing a book isn't illegal and is not deemed restoration by a majority of the collectors. However, I see no harm in disclosing any and all pressed books since there is such a vocal minority out there who believe it to be of the utmost importance. I can respect that, and I can certainly see why some would deem selling an undisclosed pressed book as underhanded or devious even if that isn't always the case.

 

2. If a book has been disassembled in order to be pressed, then yes ... it definitely falls under the category of restoration.

 

3. I cannot wholly agree on this one. I think there are some valid issues with the way NOD runs its organization and the image it portrays. I'm not going to go into them, I would only be restating issues that have already been stated a hundred or more times by others on these boards. In my opinion, rather than getting defensive about such criticisms maybe NOD should evaluate those criticisms and decide whether or not it might be better served by enacting subtle changes to its image and practices.

 

4. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. No, pressing is not a dark art. What territoriality and greed are you speaking of? No doubt pressing happens as a result of greed, but that isn't why everyone presses books. Some just like the aesthetics of it. (To each his own ... you keep talking about choices.)

 

5. You'll get no argument from me on this one.

 

Brad, it's true that I do not like your normal posting style, but please just consider this ... for every 4 members you draw in with your aggressive pitt-bull style, how many more might join when you use the no-frills, tell-it-like-it is voice of reason you just used with me? You can be a pretty powerful voice when you want or need to be.

 

 

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Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted

 

This is the most amazingly reasonable post I've read from you in a while, thanks! (thumbs u

 

Please keep in mind that the following are merely my opinions:

 

1. I believe the term "fraudulent" is a little strong considering the fact that pressing a book isn't illegal and is not deemed restoration by a majority of the collectors. However, I see no harm in disclosing any and all pressed books since there is such a vocal minority out there who believe it to be of the utmost importance. I can respect that, and I can certainly see why some would deem selling an undisclosed pressed book as underhanded or devious even if that isn't always the case.

 

2. If a book has been disassembled in order to be pressed, then yes ... it definitely falls under the category of restoration.

 

3. I cannot wholly agree on this one. I think there are some valid issues with the way NOD runs its organization and the image it portrays. I'm not going to go into them, I would only be restating issues that have already been stated a hundred or more times by others on these boards. In my opinion, rather than getting defensive about such criticisms maybe NOD should evaluate those criticisms and decide whether or not it might be better served by enacting subtle changes to its image and practices.

 

4. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. No, pressing is not a dark art. What territoriality and greed are you speaking of? No doubt pressing happens as a result of greed, but that isn't why everyone presses books. Some just like the aesthetics of it. (To each his own ... you keep talking about choices.)

 

5. You'll get no argument from me on this one.

 

Brad, it's true that I do not like your normal posting style, but please just consider this ... for every 4 members you draw in with your aggressive pitt-bull style, how many more might join when you use the no-frills, tell-it-like-it is voice of reason you just used with me? You can be a pretty powerful voice when you want or need to be.

 

 

I do not agree that a majority of collectors do not consider pressing restoration. I think you have to be specific about what kind of pressing you mean. And I think you have to be more specific about who you mean by "collectors". We've had a number of polls taken just on the boards, and in when asked "generally" if pressing is restoration....it runs over time about 50/50.

 

Regarding pressing as a dark art....my point is that despite the continued claim by it's practitioners that it's a benign safe treatment, no one has given a clear demonstration (outside of the middle east) of how it's done. This leads to suspicion, that if it were shown, people might be alarmed. I do not refer to the ocassional spot pressing of a dent or ncb crease in a cover. I personally believe that there is more pressing done where the cover is totally removed in order to take care of spine roll and creases near the staples, which would be impossible to do if the cover were left on. Also, the use of heat and moisture should be shown. And, I believe that it can be shown and yet generalized enough so no one is giving away "trade secrets".

 

And I appreciate your answer regarding #5, because that is the issue that Richard seemed unable to grasp.

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Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted
You need to be careful. I want to start pressing just so that I can practice a "dark art". Sounds like a ninja or something.

 

Well, that's what you'd be led to believe....that you need a degree in physics to do it. I say, Pressing to the People.

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The Question?

The Question?

Posted
Posted
good lord, the minutia of the pusillanimous, is ignominious, in the least!

I have discovered the identity of the Question:

 

 

jackson05.jpg

 

 

 

hm seems my "secret identity" keeps you up at night (as well as others on this site it seems)...is that not bizarre??? :hi:

 

 

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djpinkpanther67

djpinkpanther67

Posted
Posted

In my opinion, I think there are a number of people who blew the whole NOD topic way out of proportion.

 

Example: I have met Richard as a customer as well as a fellow collector (as I've stated on the Boards in the past). I happen to know that he is a pretty stand up guy, and readily discloses resto even when NOT ASKED. Do I trust him? Yes. As much as, or more than anyone on these Forums when it comes to buying a book. Obviously has a LOT of satisfied customers because he owns THREE stores!!! :makepoint: He doesn't use codewords/fake discounts like other unmentioned dealers. Honesty and customer satisfaction play a big part when it comes to running a business, espercially when it comes to anal retentive collectors that our hobby is made up of. If people were getting undisclosed garbage from him, he wouldn't be in business very long, because reputation is everything.

 

A few members are stating he has an ulterior motive. It's not my place or anyone else's to simply assume this. Maybe he wants to test the waters to make sure a business HE established isn't going to being dictated by an outside entity.

 

I personally belong to SEVERAL organizations/fraternities with secrets, bylaws, regulations, dues and the like. In fact, the US Army is one of the largest organizations in the world. It has strict guidelines and regulations for it's members to follow. And yes, it's a VOLUNTARY organization and business. An organization above all, is supposed to benefit from you becoming a member.

 

I personally joined the NOD to further increase my knowledge of the hobby, and to go about seeing if there's anything, however small that I could do to contribute to the organization. I believe the ideaology of the NOD is noble, thus my desire to join. I do NOT however, condone nor appreciate the insinuations of certain NOD supporters that "If you aren't NOD you have something to hide".This mentality is plain ignorant.

 

It is a popular saying "Buy the book, not the label" The same should be applied to the NOD. There are bad apples in every bunch, so the saying goes. I could go on but I'm hoping my twocents.gif has made some amount of sense to someone.

 

As far as Rich goes, he has earned MY trust, and I would purchase books from him whether he is NOD or not

 

 

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ciorac

ciorac

Posted
Posted
Why does this thread make think of this commercial? :whistle:

Because you like to make bad analogies? (shrug)

Two reasons: 1) Not matter how it's packaged, it's still the same old same old. 2) It's all about being able to have your own choice or opinion.

 

Sure. You have a choice to join or not. It's not complicated. And as a member, you have the chance to voice your opinion any time.

 

The "same old same old" sounds like "staying on message" to me.

 

And speaking of choice, don't you believe in the buyers right to choose whether he wants to lay down bucks for a pressed book or not? That's what this is all about. If you really believe in freedom of choice, then you should have no problem with the Network of Disclosure.

 

I don't have a problem with disclosure. I have a problem with pressing = restoration.

 

Do you also have a problem with 2+2=4? Since they are very similar principles I could understand why.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
Why does this thread make think of this commercial? :whistle:

Because you like to make bad analogies? (shrug)

Two reasons: 1) Not matter how it's packaged, it's still the same old same old. 2) It's all about being able to have your own choice or opinion.

 

Sure. You have a choice to join or not. It's not complicated. And as a member, you have the chance to voice your opinion any time.

 

The "same old same old" sounds like "staying on message" to me.

 

And speaking of choice, don't you believe in the buyers right to choose whether he wants to lay down bucks for a pressed book or not? That's what this is all about. If you really believe in freedom of choice, then you should have no problem with the Network of Disclosure.

 

I don't have a problem with disclosure. I have a problem with pressing = restoration.

 

Do you also have a problem with 2+2=4? Since they are very similar principles I could understand why.

Bill, if you want to call me or my opinions stupid or say they count for nothing, then at least have the balls to say it outright. What are you going to do with the people who are already members of NOD who believe that pressing isn't restoration? List them in the Gallery Of Disclosure? No wonder your organization has no "traction."

 

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
Why does this thread make think of this commercial? :whistle:

Because you like to make bad analogies? (shrug)

Two reasons: 1) Not matter how it's packaged, it's still the same old same old. 2) It's all about being able to have your own choice or opinion.

 

Sure. You have a choice to join or not. It's not complicated. And as a member, you have the chance to voice your opinion any time.

 

The "same old same old" sounds like "staying on message" to me.

 

And speaking of choice, don't you believe in the buyers right to choose whether he wants to lay down bucks for a pressed book or not? That's what this is all about. If you really believe in freedom of choice, then you should have no problem with the Network of Disclosure.

 

I don't have a problem with disclosure. I have a problem with pressing = restoration.

 

Do you also have a problem with 2+2=4? Since they are very similar principles I could understand why.

Hey Bill. How are you, old friend?

I am doing fine!

BTW, 2 + 2 = 4.

Pressing doesn't equal restoration.

What do you think of that?

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The Question?

The Question?

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

good lord, the minutia of the pusillanimous, is ignominious, in the least!

 

Pusillanimous? You're one to talk ... :roflmao:

 

 

 

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...you obviously didn't look up this word to ascertain its meaning :makepoint:

 

 

now, female, meet lexicon...have a nice date :headbang:

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